It makes no difference, you missed his point. All RPGS have roleplaying, by definition. In all forms of roleplaying games, restricted scenarios are good. Otherwise, the game only rewards you for how much time you put into it, and your decisions are immaterial (see WoW and Fallout 3).
_________________ When you can't get to work, think of Drill Instructor Dornan.
I'm not a fan of tabletop roleplaying, either, by the way. If I want to "roleplay" with real people, I'll go outside and talk to someone. Maybe build up a few strength points in the gym. Now enough of this damn tangent. >.<
By "it's," I meant "Fallout 1+2," NOT tabletop whatever. The original fallouts (numbah two included) are great roleplaying games because they have restrictions. Restrictions are good because the player's choices matter. Without restrictions, because the player will eventually max out everything, all that matters is time invested (WoW, Fallout 3), which is fun for zombies, I guess.
The ticking clock reassured me...everything I did in those 150 (weak memory?) days would have to count. _________________ When you can't get to work, think of Drill Instructor Dornan.
Joined: 23 Dec 2007 Posts: 151 Location: Junktown. It's not much, but it's home Status: Offline
Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 22:10 Post subject:
Heh, I see the point in some of the OP's arguments, but in others I see nothing wrong. About the wasteland feeling, that's really not what I deliberately seek, so NCR and San Fran don't hurt my view of Fallout 2. I seek good story and setting. And Fallout 2 provided me with those, also with a new post-apocalyptic mania, but that's beside the point.
NCR's existence makes sense, since the old institutions remain in the subcounscious of people, and that the work they profit from brings them power to choose a new society, San Francisco's Chinatown is a bit of a coincidence but altogether they're pleasant settings. Little towns awakening from the dusk of Atomic War, it makes sense that they would strive to reach back the old ways. Not that they'll ever achieve it, but sometimes it'll be remembered.
One of the reasons I liked Fallout 2 so much, way back then, were the turns in the story. Part of why we loved Fallout 2 so much at the time, but part of why we see so many contradictions now, comes from these story turns that they deliberately put into the plot. You're a tribal, you leave to Klamath, you find Vault 13 and BAM, it's full of Talking Deathclaws! You expected Enclave soldiers, vault dwellers, even NCR squatters, but not TALKING DEATHCLAWS! Honestly, I don't like it now but when I saw it for the first time I was thrilled. Seeing the Deathclaw appear as the Vault Door opens made me run like hell, but returning and speaking to it expecting it to enter combat mode, and seeing a dialog box pop up is historical.
I'm not saying it was coherent, just that such a moment will always stay in my memory due to the surprise it caused back in the day. But I agree, it's contradictory. The Enclave solution seems too, but it wasn't. I know that the Enclave said that the others were mutants, but that was just a hypocritical excuse for taking over the world, their true goal.
Fallout 2 violated the setting a lot, but the reward was an unforgettable experience. Could be done differently, but it's beyond discussion since it's good enough as it is. _________________ Karma system suggestion Father Armin: "He toiled for six days, and on the seventh he rested. He dedicated it to his worship, and named it Raturday."
Brother Arm: "Believers will enjoy the pleasant filth of the sewers of Eden, the rest will burn in the sewers of cleansing fire." Arminius:"Garbage day!"
I realized this has been rehashed to DEATH, but the only thing in Fallout 2 that didn't make sense to me is New Reno. Not gonna get into that.
I absolutely don't think the differences between the city-states of Fallout 2 are a big deal. California today is vastly different from city to city, so you would expect the differences to become even more pronounced in a post-apocalyptic future where each region develops separately without the benefit of easy transportation and travel.
Redding, San Francisco, Reno and Los Angeles exist today (obviously.) All four locations are very, very different from each other in terms of culture and economy.
I loved New Reno and thought it was great. I mean even if the world ends and people survive then so will junkies/druggies/drug addicts. The people who sell the drugs most certainly will still push their product of they survive. Hell they would make new stuff to sell barring the usual stuff got wiped out. We also know sex and alcohol will still be a huge market. Also guns. New Reno embodied everything wastelandy like. No law, the guys with the best, most and biggest guns ruled. The rest had to wheel and deal to survive.
Thats another thing I liked, Fallout 2 had a survivalist feel to it. Fallout 1 gave you alot starting out. But not Fallout2. That game gave you a spear, some healin powder, a water flask from Vault 13 and some directions to a town and said "now go save the world bucko". Surviving and hording is what helped you survive in that game. Cause you village didnt have jack sh*t and couldnt help much. Oh yeah they gave you some money to. But still. Everything was damned expensive starting out that they shoulda just kep the cash. _________________ Fallout
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