Joined: 03 Apr 2003 Posts: 27468 Location: Liberty City, the Netherlands Status: Offline
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 22:56 Post subject: Fallout 3 level scaling, location, turn-based?
Desslock, Fallout 3 rumour spreader extraordinaire and one of the few to have seen the games a long time ago, had this to note when a lot of people on the QTT forum were jubilant about there being no level scaling in Fallout 3:
You're reading too much into the Gaming Informer statement. The actual situation is more "complicated". Sorry, but I'm obliged to be cryptic right now.
Complicated? It's there or it's not. Also, from the guy that originally posted the GI magazine rumours:
The game takes place in D.C. in the year 2277. The map as a whole is slightly smaller than the Oblivion one.
We're still waiting for a closer look. Meanwhile, Joystiq and Computer and Video Games got their closer looks. Joystiq reports:
Turn-based combat is possible using Vault-tec Assisted Targeting System (V.A.T.S.), although once your action points are used up, you will revert to real-time combat until they charge up again.
Thanks Rangi_Ram, Bunkermensch, lithal and Jecrell. _________________ No Mutants Allowed, your Fallout resource - Fallout: New Vegas - Brother None counts down his favourite games
"There are two novels that can change a bookish 14-year-old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world.
The other, of course, involves orcs." --John Rogers
Last edited by Brother None on Fri Jun 15, 2007 23:18; edited 6 times in total
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 1604 Location: French Riviera Status: Offline
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 23:08 Post subject:
F**K THAT dude...I'm getting sick of people not being able to tell what they have seen and Bethesda not communicating on the gameplay either. I mean what is the fuckin' point ? They want to avoid fans hatin' all over their boards ? Guess what : WE WILL FIND OUT SOONER OR LATER GODDAMNIT !
Joined: 03 Apr 2003 Posts: 27468 Location: Liberty City, the Netherlands Status: Offline
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 23:16 Post subject:
Lots of editing there.
So...turn-based? _________________ No Mutants Allowed, your Fallout resource - Fallout: New Vegas - Brother None counts down his favourite games
"There are two novels that can change a bookish 14-year-old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world.
The other, of course, involves orcs." --John Rogers
Joined: 17 Sep 2006 Posts: 371 Location: Sweden Status: Offline
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 23:36 Post subject:
I'm not exactly crazy about these news. The whole birth/character creation thing isn't terrible, but it feels a bit gimmicky.
Reduction of skills is something I don't particularly like, but if done right I won't mind to much. If they plan on more Fallout games, I certainly hope they won't go the way of TES and continue reducing the number of skills. If anything, they should try and come up with some of their own and implement them together with the old ones.
Anyways, from these snippets here, I have to say that I'm very suspicious of the combat system. It sounds like the AP system will be some kind super power that you can "unleash" when it's recharged more than a solid game mechanic.
Wouldn't it be better to have a complete turnbased AP system seperate from the realtime one even if they won't be completely balanced against each other? I wouldn't mind if the realtime combat suffered.
I don't know, the idea of having to rely on "twitch" when my AP ran out sounds awful to me. Still, it sounds like people are still up in arms of how this will actually play, but I'm very skeptical for now.
I'm worried that since we're supposedly able to "shoot our way through FPS style", that this AP system will simply be a means to make the combat easier. Some kind of super power that you can use if you get into troube. Hopefully I'm wrong though.
I'm strangely disappointed that the game takes place in DC (I'm guessing that will be the entire map if it's the size of Oblivion). I'm not surprised, but I just realized that I think I will miss the large scale of the wastes. I wonder how travelling will work. I guess a seamless world like TES, but possibly with an option of the world map travel of the old games. I do think that Outdoorsman is one of the skills that will be removed though.
As for level scaling, it wouldn't surprise if it's in the game in some way. Though I absolutely don't think that it will be even remotely close to how Oblivion done it. If it's there, then I think Bethesda will do their best to "hide" it this time around and make it feel much more subtle.
Overall, I have to say that I am pretty pessimistic about most of this stuff (though there was some good stuff as well). Good to finally hear about how the game will play at least, but they have a long way to go before I'm convinced that this will be a good sequel.
EDIT: And now that this information is out there, I really wish some dev or Pete or someone would clarify how the hell the combat system works. The obviously told GI something about it, but it's not coming across very well on the forums it seems so it would be nice to get an explanation of it.
Last edited by Starwars on Fri Jun 15, 2007 23:41; edited 1 time in total
There are action points, and it can be turn based, but if your out of action points you fight in real time? How exactly does that work? Whats the point of action points? Is it just to slow down time for an aimed shot or something? I think it might be worse then if they just made it fully real time, there adding in some half-assed TB option to try and point to it as being what the fans asked for.
And 14 skills? Why? and the fact they"Grow" and you cant put points where you want pisses me off as well. I bet you all guns are condensed, barter and speech(and maybe gambling) are all one skill. Outdoorsman will be totally gone i think. Science and repair condensed, and first aid and doctor condensed.
It sounds pretty much like Oblivion with guns. At least a game in the same mould.
Last edited by stingray420 on Fri Jun 15, 2007 23:47; edited 2 times in total
Joined: 03 Apr 2003 Posts: 27468 Location: Liberty City, the Netherlands Status: Offline
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 23:43 Post subject:
I am also very confused about how the action system works, if it is turn-based or RTwP (likely the latter with Joystiq not understanding the difference), how the hell the switch between RT and RTwP/TB works, what AP do.
Maybe the article is more clear, because this just makes no sense no matter which way I hold it. _________________ No Mutants Allowed, your Fallout resource - Fallout: New Vegas - Brother None counts down his favourite games
"There are two novels that can change a bookish 14-year-old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world.
The other, of course, involves orcs." --John Rogers
yea it does sound like some super power like that whole crap with "youre special" trying to sideline everything ... i dont know how they did it but from the little info i've read so far they
... have managed to find a way to screw up both real time and turnbased concepts into what seems like the the lobotomized conclusion of the marketting team on bad acid.
i can see them going : "YOU Want turn bAsed? how u like i t now bitches? in the end your gonna scream for real time .. but the APs wont be drained yet"
offcourse the info could be wrong ... _________________ A teen skater takes a crackpot's DeLorean back to 1955, where he fends off his lustful future mom (1985) ***1/2
Ok I'm gonna have a nervous breakdown or sth...
You engage in TB combat, using VATS. Then when APs end you move on to real time COMBAT or simply real time movement???
If you move to real time combat what's the use of the TB system??? _________________ Maaaaaaaaaybe you'll think of me when you are all alone
Joined: 03 Apr 2003 Posts: 27468 Location: Liberty City, the Netherlands Status: Offline
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 23:57 Post subject:
Y'know, when I read CVGs bit:
"According to Game Informer, the battle system in Fallout 3 is called the Vault-tec Assisted Targeting System (V.A.T.S.). You'll certainly be able to tackle enemies in real-time using first-person shooting, the article says, but V.A.T.S. lets you pause time and select a target at your leisure. This works using action points, which when used up will leave you with only real-time fighting until they charge back up again."
That reads to me like this:
You fight in real time. You can pause if you have action points. If you don't have action points, you can't pause.
That would be officially the worst system ever. _________________ No Mutants Allowed, your Fallout resource - Fallout: New Vegas - Brother None counts down his favourite games
"There are two novels that can change a bookish 14-year-old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world.
The other, of course, involves orcs." --John Rogers
True.
If they wanna go for FPS why not do it the right way, no compromised stuff.
They'll ruin our game anyways, better ruin it the right way. _________________ Maaaaaaaaaybe you'll think of me when you are all alone
Joined: 03 Apr 2003 Posts: 27468 Location: Liberty City, the Netherlands Status: Offline
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 0:01 Post subject:
That would be a bad idea on the level of George Lucas writing the dialogue for Star Wars I-III, on the level of level scaling, on the level of reducing Lara Croft's breasts, on the level of pumping out a quick E.T. game for the Atari.
Worst. Idea. Ever.
Let's hope I'm reading it wrong _________________ No Mutants Allowed, your Fallout resource - Fallout: New Vegas - Brother None counts down his favourite games
"There are two novels that can change a bookish 14-year-old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world.
The other, of course, involves orcs." --John Rogers
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 0:01 Post subject: Re: Fallout 3 level scaling, location, turn-based?
Brother None wrote:
Meanwhile, Joystiq and Computer and Video Games got their closer looks.
Actually they didn't. CVG posted their own interpretations of the NeoGaf post, and Joystiq wrote a piece based on the CVG article. Gaming journalism at its best.
And everyone is speculating from comments of a Turkish person who somehow got the latest Game Informer issue before everyone else. _________________ Maaaaaaaaaybe you'll think of me when you are all alone
Joined: 03 Apr 2003 Posts: 27468 Location: Liberty City, the Netherlands Status: Offline
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 0:03 Post subject:
Well, they suck. Are you sure? I noticed the similarities, but I was assuming both sites are subscribed to GameInformer. I see no reason they wouldn't have a copy themselves.
Now let's discuss further how much AP as a pause time meter would be a bad idea. _________________ No Mutants Allowed, your Fallout resource - Fallout: New Vegas - Brother None counts down his favourite games
"There are two novels that can change a bookish 14-year-old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world.
The other, of course, involves orcs." --John Rogers
Y'know, when I read CVGs bit:
"According to Game Informer, the battle system in Fallout 3 is called the Vault-tec Assisted Targeting System (V.A.T.S.). You'll certainly be able to tackle enemies in real-time using first-person shooting, the article says, but V.A.T.S. lets you pause time and select a target at your leisure. This works using action points, which when used up will leave you with only real-time fighting until they charge back up again."
That reads to me like this:
You fight in real time. You can pause if you have action points. If you don't have action points, you can't pause.
That would be officially the worst system ever.
The Vault-Tec Assisted Targeting System will probably be something like bullettime in Max Payne. Some meter that fills up in time, allowing you to sorta stop realtime events and perhaps do aimed shots. Once the meter is drained it's back to RT combat. So let's just say it's RT with a small extra, reminiscent of TB combat.
You'll probably be able to obtain perks that will make the VATS more efficient: it fills up faster, the time to fight in 'TB' mode will be longer, etc.
That's how I interpret it, in any case. _________________
Brother None wrote:
I'm really just not that interested in other people's opinions
Yep. Joystiq provided a link to the CVG article: "...CVG reports", and CVG told me (I tried to get the damn scans) that it's based on the NeoGaf post. As you can see the info is exactly the same (i.e. no new stuff is revealed) and the language is exactly the same.
Strange. If more people would have gotten the magazine, we would have had the scans by now, would we not? If only one guy got it... Hey, Briosafreak, how reliable are your confirmations of the article?
Joined: 23 Jan 2004 Posts: 2430 Location: Leeds, Yorkshire, England Status: Offline
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 0:15 Post subject:
Brother None wrote:
Now let's discuss further how much AP as a pause time meter would be a bad idea.
Weell. I'm thinking it'd be a "Boycott" level bad idea. May be just me.
I know people wax lyrical about TB/RT (I could at least accept a well made game in RT, though I would have to wade through my own vomit to go buy it), but a game made for such a bastard hybrid is unlikely to be playable, even less likely to be enjoyable or meaningful. _________________ Been away awhile, so I've no clue what's going on.
If this has been here for more than a few weeks, I'm probably away again.
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