I would prefer a Fallout 3 remaster to Fallout 4

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by Charwo, May 26, 2019.

  1. Charwo

    Charwo Still Mildly Glowing

    Mar 9, 2017
    I have exactly ZERO faith in Bethesda. But.....my big problem with Fallout 4 wasn't even the dialogue, it was the wasted premie of an unnuked city. Shoulda been a city-state, with lots of noir based missions inside the city. Basically Goodneighbor.

    But Fallout 3, Fallout 3 made sense except for the Brotherhood being the big good. They should be there, but there should be the Outcasts, but smaller and the Lyons BOS should be a native faction. But....it's a small matter. Bethesda could never make the Fallout 3 I'd want (because I don't like the open world concept) but Fallout 3 is OK....with a modding scene like NV it could have been spectacular.

    With a remaster, and cross BSA compatibility with the Fallout 4 DLC, you could take the ruined Vaults and turn them into inhabited settlements. With something like SimSettlments Conquer, you could take the fight to the raiders and supermutants and really pacify the region. Imagine having Chucksteel's DC interiors, and clearing out Seward Square block by block and building reclaimed settlement all the way up to the Capitol. You could literally pacify and reclaim the whole of Washington DC ESPECIALLY if there's a settlement mod that allows you to put the FEV in the water purifier with Lyon's Approval and instead of having Aqua Vitae missions, your water missions are to build water treatment plumbing at all the major settlements while DC, all the enemies go sick and die and no longer respawn, except for Talon Company, who's got the infrastructure to make sure their water is clean.

    I personally would LOVE to truly be Lord of the Pitt and have a mod where you can settle and reclaim and eventually clean the Pitt of all the pollutants, and change the Pitt from a place that has to raid to get food, to a place that grows all its food in sealed greenhouses.

    This won't come with a remaster itself, but to be honest, there's only so much you can do with the Commonwealth, and this might finally get some of the Skyrim modders to come over to a game that isn't as awful as Fallout 4.
     
  2. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    Fallout 3 made no sense in so many other things than just that. And yes, BoS being in the East Coast didn't made a lick of sense either. Dying, extremely low on resources and even less on men on Fallout 2 can't make a trip across the country regardless how good your gear is.

    And Bethesda would never change anything with Fallout 3 in a remaster, except give it an graphical update. Expecting changes to the actual game itself is a prospect that is never gonna happen.
     
  3. Charwo

    Charwo Still Mildly Glowing

    Mar 9, 2017
    But the thing is, in Fallout 2 the Brotherhood is thriving. They are only in RELATIVE decline and then only because of the Enclave. Too a small degree it was NCR but NCR was partner and overlord until the Brotherhood stabbed it in the back.

    At the time Lyons was sent out, they had the manpower to send a small expeditionary force. Maybe 50 people, but definately 20. Should the Brotherhood be the "big good" faction of Fallout 3? No, in no uncertain terms. But do the supermutants make sense? Yes, although I wish they'd have done more with the Vault 87 mutants than make them orks. But it's close enough. Does the Water purification thing make sense? As fresh water for settlments, kinda, but not really, as let's use a GECK to clean up an entire water table, and make the whole region free of ambient radiation over time? Hell yes.

    So is it great? No. But it doesn't shit the bed the way Fallout 4 does, because Fallout 4 should have been as built up as NCR, not the Mojave Wasteland, NCR territory.
     
  4. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    The BoS isn't thriving in Fallout 2, they got much worse instead compared to Fallout 1, specially because of the Enclave. The game even go as far as to have a tribal wearing the BoS power armor helmet on the title screen to signify their decline. And this is a trip across the WHOLE country, this not some minor trip. Not to mention Fallout 3 claimed it had children and scribes on the expedition, this expedition could have never survived.

    And if we take the lore from the Fallout Bible (Bethesda hasn't denied any of the stuff i'm about to talk), they were at war with the NCR and it gotten so bad that they fled to their bunkers and they wouldn't come out. They couldn't have done an expedition across the country because the NCR wouldn't allow it. To add salt to injury, Fallout 3 claimed BoS overshoot it, which makes everything even more ridiculous.

    The Super Mutants don't make any sense to be in the East Coast. There's several contradicting evidences show in the previous games. The first game claims the FEV was created by the Master (edit: it was actually West Tek that created it but it was forced to hand it to the military, meaning they couldn't have had FEV to make Super Mutants in the East Coast), but suddenly West Tek has it. It makes no sense.

    The GECK also looks nothing like the one in Fallout 2 and work nothing like the way it did in Fallout 2. It might as well be something else. It wasn't a magical item that suddenly made things liveable, it was an agricultural starter kit. It didn't instantly made things better.

    Fallout 3 shit the bed as much as Fallout 4, in some cases far worse than Fallout 4. The BoS acting like paladins in Fallout 3 is so much minor compared to so much of the other nonsense Bethesda added.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  5. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 26, 2007
    IRRC... West-Tek created FEV, and was forced to turn it over for transfer to the military lab built for it at Mariposa.
    And that Richard Grey fell into the dip [years later] while storming Mariposa with Harold and others in tow; and him becoming the Master because of it. Harold fled, and eventually made his way to the Hub.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  6. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    True, i mixed it up with the creation of the Super Mutants. My point still stands, West Tek couldn't have had access to FEV to create Super Mutants in the East Coast, they were forced to hand all of it to the military after growing concerns about its effects. And if they kept some of it for themselves after being forced to hand it to the military, i believe Fallout 3 never says this. It just says West Tek has FEV for no reason. And i'm pretty sure the military would have made sure West Tek didn't kept any FEV for themselves, they wouldn't be that stupid.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  7. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 26, 2007
    Of course not. ;)
    Everything lore related from Bethesda has been rubbish.
     
  8. Risewild

    Risewild Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    It's even worse than that. In Fallout 3 it's not West Tek that has the FEV, but Vault-Tec. :shock:
     
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  9. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    This is what happens when i try to think at 3 AM, start to mix up companies (made worse because they end in the same sounding word). It is fucking Vault Tec, which is a million times worse. West Tek could have had kept some of the FEV because they themselves created the thing in the first place, but Vault-Tec of all companies couldn't have had access to FEV. And the military was already aware of its effects, they wouldn't need to have an experiment vault like 87 to know what happens with FEV.
     
  10. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 26, 2007
    Bethesda's lore is rubbish.
     
  11. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    I, too, would love a Fallout 3 Remaster.
     
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  12. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I don't recall that West Tek was "forced" to hand over FEV. They were developing FEV or when it was still called the Pan Immunity Virion Project on government contract.
    When during testing the unusual increase in muscles, nerve tissue, and size was discovered the government decided to have the project renamed as the Forced Evolution Virus and had Mariposa Base re purposed as a dedicated research and development facility.

    West Tek handed over the FEV research and most of the material as it was government property to begin with with some samples remaining at West Tek (I don't know the reason, perhaps the government wanted West Tek to continue on some research on it of their own?)

    When the Chinese bombed West Tek it released the remaining FEV into the air, changing plants and animals but in general only immunizing people from the full effects of pure FEV.

    Richard Grey/The Master did indeed not create FEV but he refined it and created FEV2. (I don't recall what some of the issues were with FEV1, would have to replay Fallout 1 again. Perhaps still to much random mutation.)

    But neither the government not West Tek handed any samples or supplies out to third parties.
     
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  13. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    I tried to remember from memory and even checked the wiki and it doesn't say anywhere that West Tek kept some FEV for themselves. The governement forced West Tek to move all of the FEV to the Mariposa base because they wanted a more private area to do research.

    Then what happened was that the Us military garrison in Mariposa saw the effects of FEV and decided to shut the all whole thing how. Roger Maxson rallied his troops in the base and killed all of the scientists there. All of the FEV was there, Vault Tec of all companies couldn't have access to it make Super Mutants in Vault 87.
     
  14. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    True, this is something I found a bit confusing when looking back at Fallout 1 lore.
    We know that West Tek got hit by missiles and that FEV got released in to the air by the explosion, being mutated in the process that it would not longer have its effects on people on the wasteland other than that they get killed when exposed to pure FEV.
    But it was never properly explained why there was still FEV at West Tek. (dammit I wrote Mariposa)

    Sorry for making things up but for some reason there would still have to be FEV at West Tek in order to be released.


    Fallout 3 in that regard is not the first game that is guilty of retconning that Vault Tec did have FEV as it was also suggested in the manual of FOBOS that Vault Tec had their own vats.

    I have actually played and completed that game (glutton for punishment) and during it there was never any mention of FEV in the Vault Tec vault. Rather the scientists there were working on a cure for sterility caused by mutation which in the end did not work.


    Also Fallout 3 retcons that some of the Vault experiments were about making super soldiers which they never were. They were social experiments to tests its occupants by forcing various conditions on them such as faulty systems, putting people of various ethnicity together for a long time, terrible living conditions, etc.
     
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  15. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    The implication is that some of it survived the bombs, hence why Harold noticed mutated animals coming from the Mariposa base.

    The entire point of FEV and the West Tek was to make super soldiers. But then Fallout 3 adds vaults that do basically the same thing, like Vault 87 and 92. What is the point of having two vaults that do the same thing West Tek was doing with FEV? It's nonsense.
     
  16. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Mistake on my side, I meant "explained why there was still FEV at West Tek" not Mariposa.
    That place was brimming with the stuff.

    There should not be any FEV in any of the Vaults, period.

    Let alone that West Tek gets to decide to put FEV in drinking water.
     
  17. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    Then there's people saying that Enclave had FEV and gave it to Vault Tec. So, if the Enclave had FEV, why did they need to go to Mariposa to get FEV? Right, because that's the only place in the Fallout world with FEV. They stumbled upon Mariposa to makes things funnier, they had no intentions for FEV or cared for it except it created mutants, beings they hate.

    The Enclave brought back FEV to the oil rig to study it. If they had actually given it to Vault Tec, they would know its effects already. Why would they need to study it in the first place if they are aware of its effects? Vault Tec would have told them the effects of FEV.

    So the Vault 87 experiment makes no god damn sense because neither the Enclave or Vault Tec had FEV and all of the FEV was in Mariposa.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019 at 2:34 PM
  18. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Having recently replayed Fallout 2 (with restoration mod) I came across something I found rather curious when I played Fallout 2 years ago for the first time.
    Why would the Enclave not know about Mariposa base and the project taking place there?

    From the logs of the Enclave I got the idea that they came across Mariposa by pure chance rather than that they had the base and all details about it in their computer archives and were actively searching for it.

    It also makes me wonder how the Enclave was ever exactly planning to retake the mainland from all the "mutants" before they found Mariposa and FEV.
    They definitely did not have the manpower and equipment for a conventional war even if they had superior tech.
    So that would only have left them with the option to nuke the mainland all over again.
     
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  19. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    God, it just keeps getting worse. Yeah, if the Enclave is meant to be a shadow organization manipulating the government, they would have known about Mariposa and the effects of FEV. Yet, they stumble upon it by chance and bring back samples to the oil rig to study it in Fallout 2.
     
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  20. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I could accept that the Enclave did not have a supply of it on the oil rig as it was still experimental when the War started but it would have been easy for them to send an expedition to the mainland soon afterwards to get some or even take full control of the installation and occupy it long before Harold and Richard Grey were looking for the source of mutants in the West.
    It would probably make more sense to do research there to turn FEV into a lethal bio agent.

    Don't think I hate the Enclave now, I still like the Fallout 2/FNV version. There was just some really poor writing and lore consistency going on.