Is destroying Hoover Dam actually a good ending?

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by AlphaPromethean, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. AlphaPromethean

    AlphaPromethean Vault Senior Citizen

    Mar 16, 2013
    For Wild Card, I mean. Think about it for a moment, after activating the El Dorado substation it's confirmed that Vegas is resource independent from the dam, and by destroying the dam itself you deprive the NCR and the Legion of their major goals in securing the region. That pot of gold everyone was fighting, suffering and dying over just got thrown off a cliff. Assuming the player upgraded the securitrons, Vegas itself has a very solid defense force but the Courier (and anyone who comes after him) or Yes Man don't have a gigantic army to control and patrol the Mojave. The Mojave itself is truly free.

    Just a thought for those who like to go for an independent Vegas.
     
  2. Cliffy McEdgeface

    Cliffy McEdgeface bitch I will cut you

    Jun 28, 2018
    Lake Mead disappears (but not before flooding the area immediately downstream from the dam in a cataclysm), all that energy generation disappears with pretty much no hope of ever getting it back again, and CL still wants everything west of the Dam and will probably just aim for somewhere else as their future Rome.

    I don't see it.
     
  3. AlphaPromethean

    AlphaPromethean Vault Senior Citizen

    Mar 16, 2013
    Important to point out that "Destroying the dam" in-game is not doing so literally. It's destroying the generators so it can't produce energy. So Mead would still presumably exist. The energy production itself doesn't even matter that much considering 95% of it went to NCR and the remaining 5% that Vegas took was subsituted by El Dorado. Yes Man and House's plan is to just sell off the excess energy anyway.
     
  4. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Huh? Where was it stated/implied that doing Wild Card/Independent route means the Dam will be destroyed? I thought doing Independent means there wouldn't be that much difference compared to House route, except this time there's no House, Lucky 38's mainframe is taken over by Yes Man, who may or may not be fully under Courier's control, and because of that they may or may not do House's plan for Vegas/Mojave.

    Also, think about it, even if Vegas is independent of the Dam, the only reason the NCR will ever trade with Vegas-Mojave is because of the electricity and clean water produced by the Dam. And it's really important for the NCR to trade with Vegas-Mojave to ensure civilization advancing in the region.

    So, why would House, or in case of what you're talking about, Yes Man destroy the generators?
     
  5. Cliffy McEdgeface

    Cliffy McEdgeface bitch I will cut you

    Jun 28, 2018
    Oh. Well, ok. Hmm. It would hurt the NCR a LOT worse than it would hurt CL. CL will just keep stabbing westward, taking slaves and pillaging as they go. NCR would basically have their backs broken by it, the repercussions would travel all the way up through NCR society.
     
  6. AlphaPromethean

    AlphaPromethean Vault Senior Citizen

    Mar 16, 2013

    When you fight at Hoover Dam under Wild Card, when you first get to the Dam Yes Man presents you with the choice of either destroying the Dam's generators or redirecting it to power up the extended Securitron army underneath the Fort. This is an in-game choice.

    Personally I like this route for Wild Card better because the other one is just "Mr. House,except it's me."
     
  7. Cliffy McEdgeface

    Cliffy McEdgeface bitch I will cut you

    Jun 28, 2018
    I like "Mr. House, except it's me." when I'm looking at a bunch of brutish LARPing machete rape gangs camping on the one side of the Colorado and the Western wasteland's single greatest military and economic power on the other. I like being able to say "fuck with my little corner of the Mojave and I'll give you such a fucking pinch" to both of these factions. Neither myself nor Mr. House, really, are interested in wider conquest, but I prefer to have that Securitron army to protect my interests fully (and without having to recruit/conscript/pressgang from the denizens of the Mojave, I might add).

    Kill the dam's generating power and CL won't even break stride. NCR will probably bail, forcing the issue of the Legion onto my/House's shoulders and without the Securitron army it's going to go HORRIBLY south.
     
  8. AlphaPromethean

    AlphaPromethean Vault Senior Citizen

    Mar 16, 2013
    I just find "Mr. House but me" to be a boring power fantasy. And I think Ulysses is right about House in saying that those walls of his will keep expanding until the Mojave is Vegas. You already get implications of that in the endings where he sends Securitrons to patrol Goodsprings and Primm.


    Pretty sure losing the dam battle breaks the Legion's stride regardless of if the dam's power is inoperable. But whatever, regardless the ending slides confirm that the Legion and NCR never take the Mojave.
     
  9. Cliffy McEdgeface

    Cliffy McEdgeface bitch I will cut you

    Jun 28, 2018
    Even if this happens, is it necessarily a bad thing? Securitrons to keep wasteland nasties away sounds like a good thing. Rather one of those tin cans deal with the occasional Deathclaw or Cazador or raider than a townsperson. I don't necessarily think Mr. House is outright benevolent (because he's not) but I don't think he's MALevolent either. I'm trying to think of a situation where his/New Vegas' interests and those of the surrounding environs would necessarily clash and kind of drawing a blank (beyond maybe Primm being seen as competition for the gambling market). Every vibe I get from House indicates that as long as you don't threaten New Vegas, he won't step on your neck.

    It would be reasonable to assume, actually, that Mr. House would see the value in being a good neighbor to the communities that generate a lot of food, trade and gambling revenue for the region. IIRC other than the Securitron patrols he doesn't exactly stick his dick in and wiggle it around too much in the ending slides, so despite being an autocrat and not really a people person he might have the good sense to realize that being a bad neighbor is likely to fuck him over in the end. He's not stupid, by any means - in fact, he's very shrewd. Just arrogant and aloof.

    But this is starting to get off-topic. Sabotaging the generators is something that basically cannot be undone because the tech required to fix the damn things is probably gone. I'm very hesitant to do something like that, especially with the repercussions it would have for NCR citizenry and for New Vegas itself, possibly.
     
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  10. AlphaPromethean

    AlphaPromethean Vault Senior Citizen

    Mar 16, 2013
    It'll have an effect in NCR, sure, but it'll all get pinned on Kimball and Oliver (assuming they're alive) and probably teach the NCR a very good lesson in why constant expansion isn't a winning strategy. As for the citizens of New Vegas, I highly doubt it will make a difference. As I said already, there's content that explains that the El Dorado substation upgrade secures electricity for New Vegas so that it's resource independent from the Dam. As for trade and the like, the variation for whether you destroy the dam or not doesn't actually change any of the slides so for towns like Goodsprings (and Primm under Primm Slimm), independence allows them to prosper and thrive. Even without the dam's electricity Vegas itself has its gambling allure, and the Mojave is still a major part of the Long 15 trade route into Utah and beyond (which, if you got the Honest Hearts good ending Happy Trails opens up again) and Old World Blues outright states that the Courier uses the Big MT tech to make the Mojave a better place.
     
  11. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Oooooh that's interesting. I don't really notice there's such choice at all. Really accentuate the fact that the route is called 'Wild Card'; even Yes Man might get surprised at the Courier's choice.

    However, I can't help but think it's nothing more than an option for edgelord Courier who just want to do it for shits and giggles. Like I said, the only reason the NCR will ever trade with Vegas-Mojave is because of the electricity and clean water produced by the Dam, with the added benefits of vast farmlands thanks to mostly clean soil as evidenced by NCR Sharecropper Farm. And it's really important for the NCR to trade with Vegas-Mojave to ensure civilization advancing in the region. So, what would happen if the Dam is to be destroyed? Well, not only the entire region will lose its major value (mainly electricity, clean water can just be gathered from Lake Mead-Colorado River), losing access to all those Securitrons means the Courier pretty much condemned the Mojave with a vulnerability that will be exploited either by the NCR or the Legion. Mostly NCR, I think, to settle the score of being double crossed.

    The only reason why Ulysses will see Mojave becoming Vegas should the Courier let House takes over is because he didn't know of House's plan for Vegas, Mojave, and humanity in the future.

    Now, House only sends Victor to Goodsprings. That's one (1) Securitron, of which the locals are already familiar with. Meanwhile, House will only sends a patrol to Primm if you let them get annexed by the NCR. Assign Meyers or Primm Slim as the law and order for Primm, and House will leave them alone.

    Which confuses me: why the Dam rendered inoperable, and in turn the Securitrons not getting powered up, changes nothing in the ending slides? Both the NCR and the Legion will have good reasons to take the Mojave despite of losing the Second Battle. The NCR will definitely want to hold the Courier responsible for double crossing them, and the Legion will definitely want to try again; especially there's no army of Securitrons to keep them at bay.

    But you can already do this without having to sabotage the generators. Just divert the power to the Securitrons, have them rise from beneath the Fort, and kick not only the Legion's, but also the NCR's ass. This is already part of House's plans since before the Courier's rising from the grave, and it's not hard to think this plan is taken over by Yes Man once he's installed in Lucky 38's mainframe.

    Which is a bad thing from the developers side: why would they implement an option for players to choose, only for it to not have any meaningful effect at all? Either it's a cut content, or they didn't think this through.

    You need to remember that the very reason the NCR even wants to be in the Mojave is because of the Dam. The electricity is vital to distribute energy across NCR's vast and rapidly growing territory. Destroying the Dam means you cut off that energy supply, pissing off not only the goverment but ALSO the citizens. The bulk of Vegas's customer comes from the NCR, so if they know that their energy supply is turned off simply because an asshat thinks he can, then they won't be coming to hand caps to your hands. Or they might get busy with trying to establish power supply again for their homes. Or better yet: the government can use this situation as a propaganda to drive their citizens to boycott the Mojave.

    It's even more baffling how destroying the Dam's generator doesn't change anything in the ending slides, now that I think about it. The very root of this conflict is the Dam, so it being operational or not should change something significantly.
     
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  12. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Vault Dweller

    Dec 6, 2016
    He is surprised and speaks a very funny phrase (I do not remember very well, but it is something like "Sure. Why have all this free electricity? Who there will want a easier life?")


    same. It´s stupid and my last favorite ending, but you have an important point in your argument. I had never thought of it, when you destroy the generators, you basically create a different ending for the region. I'll think about this a little more.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  13. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    That's cool, but I can't find anything like this in his text http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/VMQTopsYesMan.txt There's also this http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/YesManMainframe.txt but there's no such dialogue

    Also, it seems like destroying the Dam's generator is the only valid option to choose IF you destroy the bunker beneath the Fort. Basically, a last resort to expel the NCR out of the Mojave by rendering their reason of being there in first place unavailable. However, I would say Yes Man being an AI it is doesn't really think this through: humanity in their flaw has this trait of being vengeful and will want to settle some score if they get pissed off.

    But there's no significant changes stated by the ending slides. It doesn't matter, the NCR and the Legion seemed like they're too stupid to comprehend the fact that Vegas doesn't have proper army to defend themselves with because either the bunker under the Fort were destroyed, or the Courier for some reason destroyed the Dam's generator instead of diverting those power to activate the Securitrons army.

    It's only logical to assume that the Mojave will be fucked much, much sooner once the dust is cleared and it's clicked for the NCR and the Legion that Mojave have no means to protect itself from another invasion.
     
  14. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Vault Dweller

    Dec 6, 2016
    I have a yes man save in hoover dam. Later I get that dialogue for you.

    About the slide ending, this is another reason why Wild Card is just a safe ending (in case you are retard and kill everybody for example), despite being the second favorite of the players.

    I do not find that ending as well-written as the others, especially in the part that speaks of anarchy, even if you're super benevolent, being idolized on Freeside, Strip and in the casinos.

    Like.....who start the riots? Well, theres Captain Papas there and unarmed NCR civilians.....maybe the Van Graffs or Ormetas if the heads are still alive.......but no, this ending is just a generic one.
     
  15. AlphaPromethean

    AlphaPromethean Vault Senior Citizen

    Mar 16, 2013
    I just finished a Wild Card playthrough the other day and I got the choice even if I didn't blow up the securitrons. The main difference is that if you blow them up Yes Man recommends destroying the dam as your primary strategy rather than a random option.
     
  16. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Then that still means the Courier have deprived Vegas-Mojave from having a proper standing army to replace expelled NCR's military, and thus might even condemn Vegas-Mojave with a possibility of a Third Battle for Hoover Dam.

    Not just that, but who's going to police the Mojave after NCR's military gets expelled? Who's going to guard caravan runners, small towns like Goodsprings, Primm, and Novac, and even tourists wanting to visit Vegas? The Mojave had its share of nasties lurking in the wilderness, there might still be Powder Gangers and the Fiends if you don't solve that problem, or there might be even new factions of raiders looking at Vegas-Mojave with drooling faces.

    It's too bad destroying the Dam's generators have no changes in the ending slides whatsoever, because the Dam's importance and existence has been the very root of this conflict. Not having Securitrons army should also change something, since even Yes Man would make sarcastic remarks on how 'brave' the Courier is for imposing themselves with a handicap of not having a proper standing army facing two gigantic nations sandwiching the region from west and east respectively.