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Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by CT Phipps, Dec 18, 2017.
What did you think of it?
Yeah, it was okay. Actually, no, no it wasn't. I feel like this is going to be one of those movies where I'm either on the wrong side of history or ahead of my time. Basically, my opinion of the movie is a resounding "eh." This is probably my least favorite of the Star Wars films and that includes the Prequels and Rogue One. I didn't even like Rogue One that much so I may actually be on the verge of disliking this film actively. It's not a badly made film but the direction it takes the characters, mythology, and lore just feels like they aren't very well thought out.
The premise is Rey has gone to Luke Skywalker's residence near the First Jedi Temple and finds he's lost all faith in the Jedi Way. We later discover this is because he (justifiably) blames himself for Kylo Ren turning to the Dark Side. Finn and Poe have managed to make it to the Resistance's headquarters but they've been driven to almost extinction by the First Order.
Their story deserved much better.
The First Order, despite losing their own Death Star, have all but defeated the New Republic and are poised to eradicate freedom across the galaxy. Kylo Ren is suffering from severe guilt and self-hatred for his murder of his father but has established a powerful force bond with Rey. Then stuff happens, heroes die, heroes live, and the next movie is set up. When the credits rolled, I wasn't filled with a sense of elation or shock but simply the numbness that I didn't buy this was the next chapter of the story.
A big problem with this is Luke Skywalker. I'm not going to spoil anything but the answers for why he's gone into hiding are incomplete as well as out of character. To make an example, let's just say someone did a movie where Superman and Batman tried to kill one another. Where Superman was a brooding antihero and Batman killed...oh wait. Yeah, that's my feelings on The Last Jedi in a nutshell. This is the Batman vs. Superman of the Star Wars universe. Luke Skywalker is so grossly out of character that he's not recognizably Luke Skywalker at all so you can't really emotionally connect to the guy.
Is it creepy that I think Laura Dern still has got it going on?
Given Luke Skywalker is the single most influential fictional character in my life. A guy who literally inspired my five year old self to become religious and aspire to be the nicest person I could be as an adult--this is not good. It doesn't fit with the Luke Skywalker of Return of the Jedi but it doesn't fit with the Luke Skywalker of The Force Awakens either. It reads like Rian Johnson's fanfic of Luke Skywalker so the ending just falls flat for me. Mark Hamill does the role but you can tell his heart isn't in it and he'd have probably enjoyed doing anything else.
Daisy Ridley's Rey has some revelations about herself, her parentage, and plenty of other magical mysterious things which are probably the one really bright spot in the movie for me. I don't have any problem with Rey and while she's greatly overpowered, so was Luke in Return of the Jedi. I'm fine with her being the Galen Marek of the new franchise and she's a likable entertaining heroine throughout. I think the story would have been better if they'd gone a different direction with her parentage but it's not terrible the way Luke's treatment is.
Run Porg! RUN AWAY FROM CHEWIE!
Adam Driver's Kylo Ren gets a treatment of the movie which I'm a bit iffier about. I mentioned the "fanfic" parallel earlier and this is how I felt about him. Kylo Ren has gone from being a creepy boy pretending to be Darth Vader to being a misunderstood broody loner who exceeds his idol in several cases. Rey and he have a lot of romantic tension that just feels completely out of place in Star Wars given the franchise has largely avoided showing evil as anything decent or romantic. The fact Finn's relationship with Rey is completely glossed over also feels like Hollywood may have an issue with the racial dynamics. I'm not saying it does but it seems notable the black male lead is unceremoniously set up with another woman.
Carrie Fisher's farewell performance was extremely moving in light of real life events and I quickly bonded with Laura Dern's Admiral Holdo. The send off to another character was sudden and anticlimatic but also fitting. I also think if they had to kill one character at the end, which they didn't I'd like to point out, they probably did it in the best way they could have. Even so, a lot of characters die in this movie and not all of them were necessary or for the good of the story.
Really, the best scene in the movie.
The special effects are beautiful, the fight scenes were terrific, and there's parts I wouldn't have minded if they'd been in the third movie but am angry for in being the second part since they leave the story a mess. I love the Porgs (albeit I'm horrified as to what Chewie did with one) and think the casino planet had a remarkably cynical view on war profiteering which did a better job than any of the Prequels explaining how Lucas views the Military Industrial Complex.
Also, despite the fact I'm disappointed with the lack of a Finn and Rey romance, I have to say I enjoyed the character of Rose. She's a genki and enthusiastic new addition to the cast and I love how she helps even out the testosterone to estrogen level. She makes some weird choices and falls for Finn too fast but I don't mind them as a couple. I also like how she plays against his character as he continues to grow into a full-fledged hero of the Resistance.
But did I like the movie? No. No I didn't. Worse, I can't really think of it as the future of my Star Wars so when I think of the next film, I have very little excitement. It's a shame because John Boyega, Daisy Ridley, Adam Driver, and Oscar Isaacs were terrific in the film. In fact, just about everyone was. It was the script and storytelling choices which sucked.
Reading your review I couldn't help but get flashbacks to how I felt with Fallout 4.
Like Star Wars is for you, the Fallout series had a lot of impact on me. It helped me through some of my most trying times and helped me become a more understanding person.
This is a personal shame of mine but before I got into the Fallout series I was quite homophobic. My fathers daughter, as I was always told. When I played through New Vegas I began to reevaluate my beliefs and realized that such beliefs were toxic and decided to become more understanding and accepting towards people who are LGBT. Which ended up being a good thing as I would learn a few years later that my youngest brother is gay.
I can understand your frustration and disappointment. Its heartbreaking to see something that you not only love, but had such a positive impact on your life only for it to be dragged through the mud and then lit on fire by a bunch of incompetent monkeys who have no respect towards the license and have no idea what they want or what their doing.
Sorry for going into some personal details but I can relate to how you must feel right now.
Visuals okay. Story shallow and lacking when you start to think about it like most of Star Wars. If you're invested in Rey and Ren and Luke and Fynn and Poe it works. (Though Fynn arguably has a needless sideplot that goes back to 'story shallow and lacking when you start to think about it' with Rose).
Not the worst movie, just a bit weird and wonky. I would call it the F4 of Star Wars: has a few good things, a lot of bland and leaves you scratching your head at times; and if it was polished from a more original cut it might had been a gem.
You know I think this could be the make or brake for Star Wars fans the world over. When I first heard that Disney was aiming for a film every year, I thought that would become its own problem.
Well my first impressions on The Last Jedi were positive, but upon reevaluation, I have to consider things. I'm starting to wonder if don't hate the films persay, but the megafranchise that surrounds them. Alll the merchandise, all the box office revenue, all the fan theories that don't mean shit, all the EA games that want to marry themselves to the image of the original trilogy (I saw two big budget trailers for Battlefront II when I saw TLJ), it can be too much to take in I think.
I obviously love Star Wars, but I guess I kind of hate it as well.
There's not much to say because it didn't have much going for it. It was FILLER: THE MOVIE. I think there was like maybe 3 instances where the plot actually advanced. Its still borrowing heavily from the original trilogy. We still don't have a very simple scene where they pull up a map and establish the first order and the resistance territories. The power dynamic has seemed to a shifted 100% from TFA. The "resistance" seemed to be a full fledged government In TFA but is now reduced to like 200 people on a ship for some reason. I don't fucking know anymore.
Wow. Never felt more justified in not giving a fuck about a movie than after reading this thread. This (finally) confirms my suspicion with Disney and the trailers...
Luke had training over a significant period by a Grandmaster Jedi, plus he didn't really win against Vader until Vader majorly pissed him off. Not to mention the Emperor absolutely fried his ass and would have died had Vader not intervened. /nerd moment
I haven't seen The Last Jedi, but since TFA I've found that the new setting, characters and overall story just doesn't do it for me. Also I'm probably alone on this, but Daisy Ridley irks me.
She has nice tits though.
Come now. I got mixed emotions on Rey, especially in The Force Awakens, but one thing I noticed is how plain looking Daisy Ridley is. Least that's how I see it.
Nope, thought she looked and acted fine. Story just sucks.
The whole clone army idea always bugged the piss out of me. Isn't the Republic made up of thousands of planets? What all those planets couldn't scrounge up a volunteer army?
It is better to waste the life of a clone than a real person in theory, but that is a rather inhuman way of thinking. OPERATION HUMAN SHIELD COMMENCE.
Except... well the clones *are* people. It is undeniably a slave army.
Also was anyone else weirded out that when Luke was burning the jedi books that you can see its legends novels from old canon and like right on top is the the thrawn trilogy? And then Luke turned to the camera and said "fuck you Timothy zhan". I thought that was wierd.
Ha ha that joke totally isn't blatant plagiarism i swear. I don't watch Jenny Nicholson who the fuck is she? Shut up
Slave armies are better than armies of people. I mean to them. I do not advocate badass genetically bred clone soldiers that are able to withstand mental and physical trauma better than normal people...
Slaves aren't people -toront 2017
Only white cloned slaves.
I personaly believe that whole clone thing was based anyway on one throw-away line by Kenobi in STAR WARS A NEW HOPE, which was there to sound good and mysterious, to give a bit of debth to a character without thinking to much about it. The clones could have meant everything in that sense, and was only meant to inspire the viewers imagination.
I doubt it was meant to be fleshed out trough 3 movies - regardless of what Lucas said to all the people that he had all the backstory for Episode 1-3 when he made A NEW HOPE. Lucas sure was very creative in his days, but he was far from this super story teller or genious film maker that some people make him. He simply didn't really make enough ground braking movies to show his skills as director or movie maker in my opinion, not like Cameron or Spielberg who continued to deliver blockbustes for decades.
As far as Star Wars goes, there are really only 3 decent movies, and from those, only 1 actually was really 'STAR WARS', when you think about it, and that was A NEW HOPE. At the end of the day, Lucas and his collegues made Star Wars as an homage to the old movies of their childhood, like Flash Gordon for example. Just as when film makers today use Indiana Jones or Star Wars as their inspiration. In that sense, Star Wars really is extremly simple in the structure. It was not made as episode to spawn a whole new universe or to creat thousands of movies and merchendaize, infact a lot of people actually thought Lucas was crazy as they thought it was nothing but schlock. Only with THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK and RETURN OF THE JEDI have the characters been fleshed out more, with a bit of backstory, the introduction of the Empire with the Emperor, Vader as his direct servant and so on. Star Wars, for me, really shines and falls with the villains, as Atomkilla said, they are the only characters showing some kind of emotional debth.
All the SW movies that came after it, have basically nothing to do with Star Wars anymore, if you want to be really serious, not even THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK and RETURN OF THE JEDI, albeit EMPIRE STRIKES BACK was really well made, from a stroy telling persepctive, and RETURN OF THE JEDI gave the saga closure, albeit the third movie really was the weakest for the 3 in my opinion, with some great highlights throw in, like the Luke - Vader confrontation.
Star Wars I guess, has simply become nothing more but movies to sell merchandize, where as before it was actually reversed, where merchendize was made do to the popularity of the movies. Now you have characters included with only one purpose, to sell fucking toys to (grown up) toddlers.
:eyeroll for multiple reasons:
Maori cloned slaves.
I think I preferred the Clone Wars that Timonthy Zahn implied in the Thrawn triilogy rather than what Lucas wound up making up; that the clones were an unstable but ever-numerous opposing army that their masters used to wage war and that the Republic nearly lost fighting that war. Said near loss was how Palpatine even rose to power and formed the Empire (probably by being the one politician who managed to do something to win those wars).
Here are the Wookiepedia points on pre-AOTC Clone Wars:
EDIT: Also, haven't seen the film yet. I've read about it though. It is amusing to read how Luke wound up becoming a light-side version of Kreia with not as much scathing critique on the Jedi.
This would have been a better film tbh