Turkish military has taken over government

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Crni Vuk, Jul 15, 2016.

  1. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/15/asia/turkey-military-action/

    Well, shit for all the turkish people out there, I guess.
     
  2. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Actually, it's good. One task of the turkish military is to ensure Kemalism, which heavily involves laizism, which is kinda the opposite of what Erdogan was going for.
    I sure hope that there will be no civilian casualties, but Erdogan's reign was long due to be over. Guy was batshit crazy.
     
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  3. Juza The Cloud

    Juza The Cloud Nanto Goshasei

    Jun 3, 2015
    I agree with you Hass, geo poitically we need to see how this plays out. But it has the potential for good. Turkey I tend to lump into with countires like Egypt and Pakistan which has secular amries that have a history of intervening.
     
  4. eissa

    eissa Gall óGlaigh Lady of War

    Jan 7, 2016
    ironically, attaturk have been known in the past to heavily discourage religious activity. hijab and islamic calls of prayer were forbidden as well. its much closer to socialist goverment
     
  5. eissa

    eissa Gall óGlaigh Lady of War

    Jan 7, 2016
    though, this martial law were possibly because of the increasingly attack of terrorist from isil and kurdi militant.
     
  6. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Exactly. Turkey used to be very laizistic and secular even in the relatively recent past, and the turkish military was supposed to enfore this. So by that I think it might be good that they're intervening with Erdogan pushing for more islamic influence on the state.
     
  7. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Well, it is the fourth coup in their history by the military, and they always survived it. As far as I know, the military has a different role in turkish politics and their nation compard to the typical democratic nations like you have with in Germany or the US. They are, as far as I can tell, more like a state within the state. I am usually on the side where I would automatically detest any military coup. But, if their role is REALLY to protect the consitution and to make sure that the state is secularized, why not a coup? As long people don't die. For fucks sake, if some religious nutjob would take over Germany to enforce the bible I would expect the German military to roll in with their tanks at the Reichstag and blow their brains out.
     
  8. Danuis

    Danuis It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jul 6, 2016
    Erodagan has called his Islamists to the streets, but it's not many from what I'm seeing live. I support the coup and the secular, democratic forces of Turkey. If that means a coup has to realign the government, so be it. Violence is the last option. Many seem to forget that last part. How did the USA come into existence - we had tea and a meeting with the Parliament? Or the Liberal victories in the Carlist wars? I dunno why but it seems to many in my sphere are too timid, even for democracy and secularism.
     
  9. eissa

    eissa Gall óGlaigh Lady of War

    Jan 7, 2016
    not that is a good thing, i mean like i say; ataturk definition of secular means that any Form of religious expression such like public prayer will be quickly "cleaned" by the authority. 'irreligious state' rather than usual secular form like in the west.

    i'll say, fuck that. the world need to be clean of oppresion and prejudice. limiting people religious choice is not an option
     
  10. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    I agree, it's not perfect. Kemalism also involved nationalism, which I also don't really agree with.
    But it's still better than government-enforced religion.
    If they can't pray in public (which they probably shouldn't, anyway, according to their religious texts), they can at least still do it in private.
     
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  11. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Did Kemal ban Mosques?
     
  12. Danuis

    Danuis It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jul 6, 2016
    Seeing as the Hagia Sofia still has its minarets, most likely not. But the state he inherited WAS a Caliphate, him running away from religion and purging it from the government back then wasn't such an alien choice.
     
  13. eissa

    eissa Gall óGlaigh Lady of War

    Jan 7, 2016
    you know the calls to prayer (or adhan) that muslim do? kemal bans that and even insist it to be changed with turkish instead of arabic. also some might even think that christianity and other religious minority were treated more better under the ottoman empire rather than the new turkey under ataturk.

    Separation between religion and goverment is one thing, but why need to limit people religious identity as well?
     
  14. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    To get a taste of their own medicine :p? No seriously, as Danuis said, maybe because Kemal wanted to get rid of what he saw as the biggest opposition? Probably some selfish and powerhungry motivations. I mean you can't denny that under the wrong leaders and hands, religion can be quite an ugly hotbed for extremism. Some people simply want to see them churches and mosques burn. Could as well ask why some saw the need to slay priests in the french revolution. If it was so much about enlightement? I always chuckle when people mention all those european values, about whisdom and all that shit, so proud about the French revolution but forget how fucking bloody it was.
     
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  15. eissa

    eissa Gall óGlaigh Lady of War

    Jan 7, 2016
    the last time i heard about military coup to tackle "suspicious islamism"was not going so well, i mean lots of instability right and left. remember morsi?

    annnd.....its such a coincidence. turkey has been bombed recently by both isis and kurdish militant. if you want to count, its death toll were very much higher than recent terrorist activity in europe. turkey stability is much needed, because so far only hijaz (ksa and UEA) were free from those mess.
     
  16. Shardik

    Shardik Still Mildly Glowing

    Nov 5, 2015
    I was in the US Navy during the first Gulf War (1990-91) and we made four port stops in Turkey (Izmir, Istanbul and Antalya twice). I remember the calls to prayer being broadcast throughout the cities - don't know if they were in Turkish or Arabic though. Just about all of the locals ignored them and kept going about their business. Just about all of them wore western style clothing - the older women were the only ones I'd see in hijabs or other Muslim garb.
     
  17. Danuis

    Danuis It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jul 6, 2016
    Coup squashed in Istanbul, which is a Erogadan holdout anyway, but seems to be continuing in Ankara
     
  18. aenemic

    aenemic Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jun 4, 2008
    Well, that didn't go well.
     
  19. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dozy northern git

    Nov 22, 2009
    Yea, it kinda failed. That sucks, especially for all the low level guys involved. They'll be tried for treason and executed. There's like 2800 of them, at least. I wonder why this failed? Were they dumb to try it in the first place? Not having the whole military on their side?

    I'm all for secularism etc. and Erdogan seems like a bad dude but, sheesh. If you're gonna do a coup, do it well dude.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2016
  20. zegh8578

    zegh8578 Keeper of the trout Orderite

    Mar 11, 2012
    Like you say, low-level guys, aka, conscripts and such, there were mentions of entire groups surrendering to police.
    That, to me, feels a lot like frightened conscripts, since dedicated militants would not even recognize police authority, even less surrender to them

    I hope these lowest levels are given amnesty, I'm even pretty sure they will be - since again - it was strongly indicated they weren't all that aware of the legality of what they were doing (the conscripts I mean)

    The orchestrators are obviously a very different story. Seems they quite simply overestimated their own abilities. It happens! Now and then, it simply happens.
    Spain had a failed coup-attempt as well, after Franco's death, a faction of the Spanish military tried to bring about military rule, with a colonel or something storming into parliament building, shooting his gun into the ceiling, like a madman - there's clips on Youtube!
    My own grandmother tells me she remembers tanks rolling down the street, right below her apartment, and she was horrified, as many were, thinking "Christ, not again... " but there was little support from the rest of the military, and even less from the public.
    After a dramatic initiation, the coup sort of fizzled out in about a day, and then completely failed
    It happens...
     
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