What if Super Mutants weren't sterile?

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by hag, Aug 18, 2018.

  1. hag

    hag The Master Did Nothing Wrong!

    Aug 21, 2016
    Would you seriously consider joining the Unity? Or would Unity still be unappealing? Explain yourself.

    I'm undecided. It seems like humanity would eventually reach a plateau.

    I think it's worth considering that the standard of living as an SM seems to be far better than that of an average human Wastelander. At least on the material level, but possibly on the social and spiritual level as well.
     
  2. Cliffy McEdgeface

    Cliffy McEdgeface bitch I will cut you

    Jun 28, 2018
    I'd do it but I've always been a weird-ass transhumanist fucktard.
     
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  3. a721402

    a721402 Played FPS for decades still suck at it.

    Mar 29, 2016
    Then the Vault Dweller will have nothing to talk down the master, so he/she can't convince Master to end his plan.
    Surely that could lead to outcome such as those high ranking SM have more reason to hate human because a human ruined the supposedly flawless plan, and since SM isn't sterile in this maybe, there is a chance that master't army reform into something much worse by high ranking SM(if vault dweller haven't killed them) after master's death, they will be much more aggressive since they lose their leader and don't really need to worry about reproduction very much.
    Could be the end of the world situation for every human and forced BoS to actually start a full scale war with them, as Vault Dweller alone simply won't be enough to face an army alone.
    Which could lead to either the end of BoS, or some policy change, maybe turn them into something more close to mid-west BoS, could be a good thing.
    But we will never know, since it's just a maybe.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
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  4. Hulk'O'Saurus

    Hulk'O'Saurus It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jul 10, 2018
    If the Master dies, I think, in the long run the Mutants could become quite agreeable. I mean, how quickly can they multiply?
     
  5. naossano

    naossano Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 19, 2006
    I don't really see the sterility as the biggest issues. As Lou points out, the super-mutants scientists would have found a solution, given time, and they didn't lack longevity.

    On the other hand, they would also have to deal with actually producing FEV at some points, then making a mix that wouldn't have such a big death rate, and wouldn't transform random wastelanders into morons. Then, they would have to deal with the danger of stealth boy overuse by the nightkins.

    So ultimately, the question is : If, given time, the mutants had managed to handle their scientific issues, would the unity be even more apealing ?

    The problem is that the unity IS already appealing, imo, because their story happens during an era in which the humanity is still traumatized by the nuclear war, and Richard Grey bring a solution to heal from that trauma, once for all. I wish the dev had more time to flesh out more the ending in which you do choose the unity. I would have picked that option.

    Let's say they go quiet for a while, only try to force their agenda on others after they perfected their FEV. Let's say it takes them a couple of centuries and make their move during FoNV. The world has changed by then, and their solution become less appealing, now that civilization rebuilt themselves.

    Another question is : Now that that the unity was defeated and the civilizations had rebuilt themselves, can the new world benefit from the super-mutants wisdom ? I think so. Guys like Marcus not only had a long life, but actually have some experience with ruling and with different kinds of government and ideology. They know their shit.
     
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  6. hag

    hag The Master Did Nothing Wrong!

    Aug 21, 2016
    Absolutely. I'm curious about the 'insider perspective' on the Unity.

    We know how the Master acts towards dangerous VDs who intrude into his lair. But what is he like towards trusted subordinates?

    What were the high-ranking SMs like, besides the Lieutenant? Marcus paints a pretty picture. "The best humanity had to offer."
     
  7. 5545Trey

    5545Trey Underground Deviant

    Jun 25, 2014
    It's a tricky question. I don't find the Unity unappealing as far as intentions go, since they were the only group in Fallout 1 that were actively executing their method of making the wasteland a better place and "evolving" mankind. It certainly makes them more appealing than the other factions in the game.
    • The Followers of the Apocalypse are highly idealistic and aim to preserve the past so humanity can learn from past mistakes. The problem, here, is that humans tend to repeat historical atrocities. It's why warfare still exists in this day and age.
    • Shady Sands would have transformed into the NCR in the 80 years following FO1's events, but the NCR would also be easily susceptible to corruption and annexing several communities in the West.
    • The Great Khans? Raiders - nothing of any importance to be stated on their part.
    • The Brotherhood of Steel? They send the player on a suicide mission just to retrieve an item that they need, and they mask this as being a "ritual" outsiders have to take in order to gain entry into their bunker - mainly because of their need to "preserve" the past by hording their technology so potential enemies won't steal it from them.
    The only faction that comes remotely close to being as attractive as the Unity is the Followers of the Apocalypse, but their motives are heavily-based on the fact that they aren't well-verse in the apocalypse and would easily get eaten alive by it. I brought up these four factions to solidify my first paragraph.

    The Master considered his plan to "force" humans into evolution as "the next logical step for humanity" because, well, it was the next logical step for humanity. Humans are responsible for the Great War, and there isn't any reason not to believe that humanity would purge into another nuclear war, if given the resources. Super Mutants are physical superior to normal human beings, being stronger, faster, and immune to radiation. The Unity only failed because mutants couldn't reproduce as humans could, and most mutants suffered a considerable amount of brain damage. Those are the two reasons why the Unity to failed.

    Super Mutants live a longtime. Long enough to reflect on the events from New Vegas to Fallout 1, and even to the Pre-War days. Lou Tenant was smarter and more reserved than a great sum of humans in the first Fallout game, while Marcus had a calm, honest outlook on humanity and the Master's Plan (this is the highlight of Fallout 2's writing, by the way).
     
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  8. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    Apr 22, 2016
    From my perspective within 50-80 years the entirety of the west coast would likely be devoid of any non mutated human life if Super Mutants could procreate (Assuming a reasonable gestation time). This is simply because if Super Mutants were not sterile they could easily allow their population to grow since they themselves are at risk to the various issues humans have. Super Mutants are free of disease, super strong, immune to radiation, etc...

    As the Super Mutant population grew so would its need for resources. Once a reasonable capacity was reached and the need for more resources became more pressing, a veritable horde of big hard to kill mutants would inevitably start taking over.

    As "humans" are mutant food, then its likely that humanity would find itself on the super mutants dinner table. I would then speculate that within 160-200 years the rest of North America would be over run with Super Mutants.
    Overall, its join or Die. Just like the Master said.

    Do remember that all artificially made super mutants were indoctrinated to not only believe the Master but follow the Master's commands relentlessly until death.

    However I would very much like to see the perfection envisioned by the Master and our dream of Unity finally come to fruition.

    Consider for a moment that if the Vault Dweller never stopped the Master, the horde of Super Mutants would have not only taken the entire region by complete surprise with their numbers and fire power, but also squashed anyone such as the BOS in their way easily.
     
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  9. naossano

    naossano Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 19, 2006
    The normies (SM are also humans) aren't for food. They are to be dipped into the vat, or detained until such opportunities arise.
     
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  10. Risewild

    Risewild Half-way Through My Half-life
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    The Master would pose a choice to any human. To be dipped or to be sterilized and live the rest of their life in the wastes. Or at least that is what he says:
     
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  11. Walpknut

    Walpknut This ghoul has seen it all

    Dec 30, 2010
    I think I am fine having an expiration date. Rather not be a green monster who lives forever and can't even remember his ambitions, feelings or life before becoming a green monster.
     
  12. Recon

    Recon First time out of the vault

    Aug 23, 2018
    No, it's not the way I envision our future to be, one race oppressive to any and all other variables.
     
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  13. hag

    hag The Master Did Nothing Wrong!

    Aug 21, 2016
    @Recon Oppressive how exactly?
     
  14. V.D.D.Williams

    V.D.D.Williams First time out of the vault

    Aug 29, 2017
    I would probably still refuse, consequences be damned.

    Although the Master might be willing to offer options, he isnt exactly in a position to ensure his instructions are followed. Lou already hides things from the Master, and Im pretty sure he wouldnt entertain the notion of letting people who are undecided just live on (He would probably consider that a waste of time).

    We also know that eventually the Nightkin will suffer the side effects of excessive Stealth-Boy use. Antler might attempt to lead the Nightkin into an uprising to overthrow the Master!

    ...Yes. Yes, Antler, I told them. Whats that Antler?... Oh, no. No, I dont think they suspect anything...
     
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  15. Recon

    Recon First time out of the vault

    Aug 23, 2018
    In that, they want to convert/kill anything that isn't them, nothing can exist equally alongside them. You do have your nicer mutants, like Fawkes and the Jacobs Town Mutants but the rage-filled ones that want to make the world a Super Mutant only place. Maybe not a correct use of the word Oppressive but in the way they want to force there the way of life onto others who aren't them or agree with there way of thinking.
     
  16. hag

    hag The Master Did Nothing Wrong!

    Aug 21, 2016
    Davison's "Antler" and Dog's obsession with subservience always struck me as a way to compensate for the loss of the Master.

    (I know you're probably kidding)
    I think what you're describing is paternalism, at least with regards to the Unity.

    As Marcus says, the Master knew humans wouldn't be cooperative. Regardless, the Unity was for their own good. Supposedly, anyway.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
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  17. naossano

    naossano Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 19, 2006
    Agreed. And the latter even use that word to refer to Elijah. The schyzophrenic nightkin lost their sense of purpose with the death of the Master.
     
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  18. Sublime

    Sublime First time out of the vault

    Jun 5, 2018
    What about the Enclave?
     
  19. V.D.D.Williams

    V.D.D.Williams First time out of the vault

    Aug 29, 2017
    Um...yeah!. Definetly kidding...Hahaha....ha....

    No, Antler, I dont think they noticed. They suspect nothing!

    Jokes aside, in the case of Davison and Dog/God, it does seem like they are trying to fill the void left by the Masters death by finding new authority figures, but there are some Nightkin whos condition has less to do with the Master and more to do with the specifics of their own symptoms. If the Master is alive, Davison might interpet Antlers voice differently, or decide to listen to Antler instead of the Master because Antler "makes more sense".

    Tabitha, for instance, doesnt seem to really care about finding a new Master, but in trying to accomplish part of the vision of the Unity by making a "nation" for the Super Mutants. The Nightkin in Novac is overwhelmed by the Brahmin screams that torment him that he can only think of trying to make the screams stop, to the exclusion of everything else.

    Even if we assume a scenario in which the Master lives, the voices in a Nightkins head could easily simply tell them to kill the Master and drive them insane that way, or be a voice identical to the Masters but which gives contradicting orders to what the real Master says. That being said, the Master might have been able to find a cure for them or a way to deal with the side effects of Stealth Boy use had he lived (like an FEV based "booster shot" or something). Either way, theres issues with becoming a Nightkin in Fallout, Unity or no Unity.
     
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  20. SiriusShenanigans

    SiriusShenanigans Those who write on Heaven’s walls...

    Jun 27, 2018
    Don't give your kids mutations! FEV causes autism!
     
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