Can someone explain this expired ID thing?

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by The Goon, May 13, 2010.

  1. The Goon

    The Goon It Wandered In From the Wastes

    109
    Mar 1, 2010
    Apparently in the state of New York a learners permit becomes invalid as an ID when it is expired. I can understand it being invalid for driving purposes but no as a valid proof of age for getting alcohol. So far I got denied twice which is not a big deal. It gives me another reason to get my driver license. But I have yet to get a valid explanation from management other then "We can get fined if we serve you". So can someone here trying to explain this to me or help me come up with some arguments against this, a loophole maybe? Eventually, I might end up calling out the Liquor Authority on this in which case I will be busting as much balls as possible so any input of this would be appreciated. Although I don't need alternatives, I know that I can use my passport as a proof of age.
     
  2. TheWesDude

    TheWesDude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 25, 2005
    some states have laws that allow like drivers liscences and learners permits to be used past their expiration date, but most states do not.

    in most states, once they expire, thats the end of it.
     
  3. Captain Frankie

    Captain Frankie First time out of the vault

    61
    May 10, 2010
    The only reason I can think of:

    It might be because holders of expired learner's permits might no longer look the same as on the photograph...
    Therefore, it can be difficult for salespersons to be sure the person buying alcohol is indeed the same person as on the permit.
     
  4. The Goon

    The Goon It Wandered In From the Wastes

    109
    Mar 1, 2010
    But why?

    I have a wallet full of credit cards and a college ID that has my picture on it. I can prove beyond a doubt that the person in the ID is me.
     
  5. victor

    victor Antediluvian as Feck
    Orderite

    Dec 12, 2003
    Is this really a problem? Can't you just renew your permit?

    As Cpt. Frankie said, it's probably just a formality, because people tend to change over the 5-10 years between the ID's creation and the expiration date.
     
  6. UncannyGarlic

    UncannyGarlic Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 6, 2008
    Getting an ID card (not a drivers license) from the DMV is always an option if you don't drive, I don't think that those ever expire and it's more portable than a passport (for bars). In Oregon you can use an expired ID, they don't really care, but it kind of makes sense for permits seeing how many I've seen used by minors to buy booze (siblings' or friends' old permits), not that they bother to check IDs well at all.
     
  7. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    It's an identification document that's become invalid as an identification document. It's that simple.

    Basically, with an expired license, you're treated as if you didn't have any proof of your age. Get a new one.
     
  8. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    What a very, very odd question. Do you regularly try to go across the border with an expired passport?
     
  9. victor

    victor Antediluvian as Feck
    Orderite

    Dec 12, 2003
    ID cards expire over here. Mine's due like, yesterday. I should really get a driver's license.
     
  10. The Goon

    The Goon It Wandered In From the Wastes

    109
    Mar 1, 2010
    The expired passport still has my correct age just like my permit which I'm only using for a DOB. Maybe I should renew my birth certificate every five years too in case I start getting younger. I don't see why the seller cant have the option of requesting another form of ID (which might not have a DOB on it) if they suspect that the person presenting an expired ID is not the legal owner.

    Its all a scam; buy the ID from the DMV, if I'm getting an ID I might as well get one that will let me do somethings other then just getting into bars, Ok maybe I should take a few lessons before my road test, oh look i can drive now, let me buy a car and some insurance. Why? because I wanted a fucking drink on a Wednesday night. Fuckers need to put a self destruct mechanism that just clears the card when it becomes expired.
     
  11. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Because the whole point of ID is to have a centralized organ that stores information on individuals, and is guaranteed to be correct. It is that guarantee that takes the liability away from the storekeeper; it is no his fault if the centralized system is wrong. It becomes his responsibility if he accepts anything no longer seen as valid by the central system. The system needs to be watertights, and that means a non-valid card is simply non-valid because it is not a legal means of identification.

    I can not comprehend how you do not understand this, or why you're being indignant about it. Get a passport or ID card, for Frith's sake.

    ...

    Wait, you do know all ID cards have expiration dates, right?
     
  12. Cimmerian Nights

    Cimmerian Nights So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2004
    Personally I'm in favor of bouncers using their discretion in these cases. I guarantee he let some cleavage bearing chicks in w/o carding them at all, maybe even waiving the cover. That's just good bar management acumen.
     
  13. Grayswandir

    Grayswandir Mildly Dipped

    518
    May 9, 2008
    Meh. The fact that your ID for something is expired doesn't make the informations on it expire too. But each country has a different view on this matter. In my country (one that really like to centralize information), I sure could'nt travel with my old long invalid pass, but it is still is a valid ID for police control and to buy beers, as long as the photo looks like me .

    But for the OP poster, I think that's because otherwise all the expired ID would go to the already thriving illegal market of fake ID. American student need to be kept thirsty...
     
  14. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Yes. I'm just saying, when doing that they take responsibility on themselves, no matter how pretty our invalid IDs are.
     
  15. Professor Danger!

    Professor Danger! Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    421
    Aug 30, 2009
    There's no reason not to get at least a state id. I believe it's a legal requirement in most states now to always carry around proof of identification.

    Jesus, just fork over the 20-30 dollars and get/renew something.
     
  16. The Goon

    The Goon It Wandered In From the Wastes

    109
    Mar 1, 2010
    I'm going to renew my permit next Wednesday and get my DL a week or two after. Fuck it. It is a legal requirement carry around proof of identification in NYS and therefore should be provided by the State for free. The system is broken anyway, I can say I "lost" a none-expired ID and give it to someone that could pass for me and that would work because it waves liability from the bar (I'm excluding the scenarios where, that person can get arrested and pretend their me leading to a warrant to be issued when I miss court or better yet them getting arrested because they pretend their me because I might have a warrant) . But when I can prove that I am in fact the person in my expired ID it becomes a problem.
     
  17. Shoveler

    Shoveler Still Mildly Glowing

    214
    Nov 8, 2007
    Provided by the state for free? It's like $15 damn dollars, should the state provide a life time of toilet paper too, hey it's a necessity after all. (I guess you could just hop in to the DMV anytime you wanna take a dump and use their toilet paper, but ewww...not for me)

    I can't see how standing there arguing with a bouncer type with your PASSPORT in hand is easier than just having the right/current god damn identification. What's the world coming to.

    Never heard so much belly aching for something so damn simple. Is it the hassle of getting the ID, or just cheapness....jesus k rist
     
  18. The Goon

    The Goon It Wandered In From the Wastes

    109
    Mar 1, 2010
    Its a waste of my time to get something that will look exactly like something I already have just with a different expatriation date, only to renew it again when I get a change of address in the next year or so. I was more interested in seeing if someone can come up with a valid argument against this or a loop hole. Instead of "just get an ID because the system that is flawed tells you to do it" responses I'm getting.

    Edit: The State does not mandate that I wipe my ass but it is a requirement to have an ID or my sweet sweet ass might end up at the police station until they can figure out who I am.
     
  19. Shoveler

    Shoveler Still Mildly Glowing

    214
    Nov 8, 2007
    Look the same maybe, except with updated info. New picture and so on, and another one after you move? Sounds fine to me, the cops need to know where to pick you up after your crime spree. See all legit reasons. The system has it's flaws, none of which you've mentioned yet though. Everything you mentioned so far has perfectly good reasons. The information (including the picture) needs to be fairly up to date. In 4-5 years someones physical appearance can change a lot.

    EDIT: I didn't say the state mandated you wiping you ass, although you seem to want them to do it for you. Just start by being a little responsible.
     
  20. The Goon

    The Goon It Wandered In From the Wastes

    109
    Mar 1, 2010
    I can prove beyond a responsible doubt that I am in fact the person in my ID for none driving purposes and be denied alcohol and cigarettes because an ID is expired. However a person using someone else's ID that they can pass for can be served as long as its not expired.

    I can move and not change my address in the DMV, commit a crime and have the cops knock down the wrong door just because my ID wasn't expired yet and I decided I didn't feel like getting an update but I can still get into bars.

    Like I said I'm getting a new form of ID but was hopping to find holes in the situation.