Apparently in the state of New York a learners permit becomes invalid as an ID when it is expired. I can understand it being invalid for driving purposes but no as a valid proof of age for getting alcohol. So far I got denied twice which is not a big deal. It gives me another reason to get my driver license. But I have yet to get a valid explanation from management other then "We can get fined if we serve you". So can someone here trying to explain this to me or help me come up with some arguments against this, a loophole maybe? Eventually, I might end up calling out the Liquor Authority on this in which case I will be busting as much balls as possible so any input of this would be appreciated. Although I don't need alternatives, I know that I can use my passport as a proof of age.
Can someone explain this expired ID thing?
- Thread starter The Goon
- Start date
TheWesDude
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
some states have laws that allow like drivers liscences and learners permits to be used past their expiration date, but most states do not.
in most states, once they expire, thats the end of it.
in most states, once they expire, thats the end of it.
Captain Frankie
First time out of the vault
The only reason I can think of:
It might be because holders of expired learner's permits might no longer look the same as on the photograph...
Therefore, it can be difficult for salespersons to be sure the person buying alcohol is indeed the same person as on the permit.
It might be because holders of expired learner's permits might no longer look the same as on the photograph...
Therefore, it can be difficult for salespersons to be sure the person buying alcohol is indeed the same person as on the permit.
Is this really a problem? Can't you just renew your permit?
As Cpt. Frankie said, it's probably just a formality, because people tend to change over the 5-10 years between the ID's creation and the expiration date.
As Cpt. Frankie said, it's probably just a formality, because people tend to change over the 5-10 years between the ID's creation and the expiration date.
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Getting an ID card (not a drivers license) from the DMV is always an option if you don't drive, I don't think that those ever expire and it's more portable than a passport (for bars). In Oregon you can use an expired ID, they don't really care, but it kind of makes sense for permits seeing how many I've seen used by minors to buy booze (siblings' or friends' old permits), not that they bother to check IDs well at all.
The Goon said:
It's an identification document that's become invalid as an identification document. It's that simple.
Basically, with an expired license, you're treated as if you didn't have any proof of your age. Get a new one.
The Goon said:
What a very, very odd question. Do you regularly try to go across the border with an expired passport?
ID cards expire over here. Mine's due like, yesterday. I should really get a driver's license.
Brother None said:
The expired passport still has my correct age just like my permit which I'm only using for a DOB. Maybe I should renew my birth certificate every five years too in case I start getting younger. I don't see why the seller cant have the option of requesting another form of ID (which might not have a DOB on it) if they suspect that the person presenting an expired ID is not the legal owner.
Its all a scam; buy the ID from the DMV, if I'm getting an ID I might as well get one that will let me do somethings other then just getting into bars, Ok maybe I should take a few lessons before my road test, oh look i can drive now, let me buy a car and some insurance. Why? because I wanted a fucking drink on a Wednesday night. Fuckers need to put a self destruct mechanism that just clears the card when it becomes expired.
The Goon said:
Because the whole point of ID is to have a centralized organ that stores information on individuals, and is guaranteed to be correct. It is that guarantee that takes the liability away from the storekeeper; it is no his fault if the centralized system is wrong. It becomes his responsibility if he accepts anything no longer seen as valid by the central system. The system needs to be watertights, and that means a non-valid card is simply non-valid because it is not a legal means of identification.
I can not comprehend how you do not understand this, or why you're being indignant about it. Get a passport or ID card, for Frith's sake.
...
Wait, you do know all ID cards have expiration dates, right?
Cimmerian Nights
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Personally I'm in favor of bouncers using their discretion in these cases. I guarantee he let some cleavage bearing chicks in w/o carding them at all, maybe even waiving the cover. That's just good bar management acumen.
Grayswandir
Mildly Dipped
Meh. The fact that your ID for something is expired doesn't make the informations on it expire too. But each country has a different view on this matter. In my country (one that really like to centralize information), I sure could'nt travel with my old long invalid pass, but it is still is a valid ID for police control and to buy beers, as long as the photo looks like me .
But for the OP poster, I think that's because otherwise all the expired ID would go to the already thriving illegal market of fake ID. American student need to be kept thirsty...
But for the OP poster, I think that's because otherwise all the expired ID would go to the already thriving illegal market of fake ID. American student need to be kept thirsty...
Cimmerian Nights said:
Yes. I'm just saying, when doing that they take responsibility on themselves, no matter how pretty our invalid IDs are.
Professor Danger!
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
There's no reason not to get at least a state id. I believe it's a legal requirement in most states now to always carry around proof of identification.
Jesus, just fork over the 20-30 dollars and get/renew something.
Jesus, just fork over the 20-30 dollars and get/renew something.
I'm going to renew my permit next Wednesday and get my DL a week or two after. Fuck it. It is a legal requirement carry around proof of identification in NYS and therefore should be provided by the State for free. The system is broken anyway, I can say I "lost" a none-expired ID and give it to someone that could pass for me and that would work because it waves liability from the bar (I'm excluding the scenarios where, that person can get arrested and pretend their me leading to a warrant to be issued when I miss court or better yet them getting arrested because they pretend their me because I might have a warrant) . But when I can prove that I am in fact the person in my expired ID it becomes a problem.
The Goon said:
Provided by the state for free? It's like $15 damn dollars, should the state provide a life time of toilet paper too, hey it's a necessity after all. (I guess you could just hop in to the DMV anytime you wanna take a dump and use their toilet paper, but ewww...not for me)
I can't see how standing there arguing with a bouncer type with your PASSPORT in hand is easier than just having the right/current god damn identification. What's the world coming to.
Never heard so much belly aching for something so damn simple. Is it the hassle of getting the ID, or just cheapness....jesus k rist
Its a waste of my time to get something that will look exactly like something I already have just with a different expatriation date, only to renew it again when I get a change of address in the next year or so. I was more interested in seeing if someone can come up with a valid argument against this or a loop hole. Instead of "just get an ID because the system that is flawed tells you to do it" responses I'm getting.
Edit: The State does not mandate that I wipe my ass but it is a requirement to have an ID or my sweet sweet ass might end up at the police station until they can figure out who I am.
Edit: The State does not mandate that I wipe my ass but it is a requirement to have an ID or my sweet sweet ass might end up at the police station until they can figure out who I am.
The Goon said:
Look the same maybe, except with updated info. New picture and so on, and another one after you move? Sounds fine to me, the cops need to know where to pick you up after your crime spree. See all legit reasons. The system has it's flaws, none of which you've mentioned yet though. Everything you mentioned so far has perfectly good reasons. The information (including the picture) needs to be fairly up to date. In 4-5 years someones physical appearance can change a lot.
EDIT: I didn't say the state mandated you wiping you ass, although you seem to want them to do it for you. Just start by being a little responsible.
I can prove beyond a responsible doubt that I am in fact the person in my ID for none driving purposes and be denied alcohol and cigarettes because an ID is expired. However a person using someone else's ID that they can pass for can be served as long as its not expired.
I can move and not change my address in the DMV, commit a crime and have the cops knock down the wrong door just because my ID wasn't expired yet and I decided I didn't feel like getting an update but I can still get into bars.
Like I said I'm getting a new form of ID but was hopping to find holes in the situation.
I can move and not change my address in the DMV, commit a crime and have the cops knock down the wrong door just because my ID wasn't expired yet and I decided I didn't feel like getting an update but I can still get into bars.
Like I said I'm getting a new form of ID but was hopping to find holes in the situation.