Fallout 1 versus Fallout 2

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by CT Phipps, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Carbon Dated and Proud

    Sep 17, 2016
    Which do you like more?

    Why?

    I'll be honest....I don't like Fallout 1 that much.

    It created the world but Fallout 2 blows it away.

    I feel like 2 is the better game by far, better story, better enemies, and better humor.
     
  2. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    I prefered Fo2 overall, but Fo1 main story was much much better.
     
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  3. Risewild

    Risewild Antediluvian as Feck
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    I agree with naossano.
    I prefer Fallout 2 even though the story and main villain are weaker, and it has plenty of stupid stuff. I still prefer Fallout 2 because it's adds more of everything and of course, the engine in more polished... And I have a thing for game engines...
     
  4. SquidWard

    SquidWard Pirate and Bankrobber oTO Orderite

    Jun 1, 2018
    Fallout is in my opinion far better. I feel like the way the game shows themes and ideas and even the atmosphere was done better. I also felt more like I was in a wasteland and it felt surreal to play at points. Going to the Glow for the first time was something else. I've mentioned it all before somewhere here and I'm really tired at the moment so I'm not the best at articulating what I mean, sorry.

    Fallout 2 did have its own positives such as more content, quality of life improvements in inventory/UI and companions/NPCs, and such. I don't mean to say that Fallout 2 fails thematically but it feels more like a theme park with different places to go. Fallout has a lot of overarching things and things that really reinforce the main ideas the game presents.
     
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  5. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    974
    Dec 6, 2016
    2, by far.

    Fallout 1 is just this game that lasts about 10 hours. I do not even understand why it has perk above level 15, even doing everything, I always end up at level 13/14
     
  6. SquidWard

    SquidWard Pirate and Bankrobber oTO Orderite

    Jun 1, 2018
    I mean, you can do some of those caravan missions and stuff for bonus XP right? And probably wander the wastes a good bit? I don't know. It may be short and have stuff for later that isn't as often used by players but I don't think that detracts from the experience, or at least in my opinion. There's D&D groups I know of that never make it to level 7 with how they do their XP and they play that campaign for years never making their characters get all their cool stuff they could get past that level.
     
  7. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Carbon Dated and Proud

    Sep 17, 2016
    Eh, I can't take the Master seriously as an enemy. His cult, his Super Mutant army, and plans to turn everyone into monsters to survive the Wasteland just feel a little too crazy compared to the more down-to-Earth Enclave. I never quite understood why he was so popular except for the fact you could talk him down.

    Which is great but I think that's the big surprise with him.

    Dick Richardson was a much stronger villain, IMHO.
     
  8. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Antediluvian as Feck

    Nov 26, 2007
    And yet the Enclave are arguably wrong design for the setting. The Master, and the Unity are (I'd say almost certainly) deliberate 50's~esque cliché B-movie monsters; who want to convert the world into radioactive green bogeymen—for the good of Humanity. Think about it.

    With the Enclave (and the rest of Fallout 2), the remaining Black Isle team made a [mechanically decent] sequel that took both itself, and the Fallout source material way too seriously in some respects, and too flippantly in others. Even they couldn't get it quite right—IMO.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  9. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Carbon Dated and Proud

    Sep 17, 2016
    Eh, the fact they had the United States gunning people down in the street in the opening of the first game pretty much shows that they were always showing a nasty ugly side to the 1950s.

    Besides, we actually do have depictions of the US as crazy nutjobs in the 1950s.

    War of the Worlds
    The Day the Earth Stood Still
    Doctor Strangelove
     
  10. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Antediluvian as Feck

    Nov 26, 2007
    The scene in the Fallout intro, was (very likely) based on the Saigon Execution.

    Fallout definitely imparted that the goverment was lying to the people about just how bad a nuclear war would be, and it showed war profiteering; and a glib propensity for violence among the military.

    Still, Fallout 2 was a few steps astray from the example set by the original IMO. ...Aside from Horrigan, they were just heavily armed cultists; nothing fanstastic or preternaturally plot-worthy in the cinematic sense.
     
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  11. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Carbon Dated and Proud

    Sep 17, 2016
    That's part of the issue as I didn't really think much of the Super Mutants or the cult.

    The Cult by David Warner was deliberately over-the-top camp and derivative of Wasteland.
     
  12. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Antediluvian as Feck

    Nov 26, 2007
    The Cult I'm talking about is the Enclave—which is what they were... despite their origins in the Secret Service.

    The Children of the Cathedral are possibly based on the church/cult that worshipped the atomic warhead in Beneath The Planet of the Apes.



    As is Fallout itself... It was initially hoped to BE a sequel to Wasteland. The cathedral itself is practically copied from it.



     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  13. R.Graves

    R.Graves Confirmed Retard

    Apr 21, 2016
    lol no. fallout 2 is very much the beyond thunderdome of the franchise. the story is pretty dumb in some areas and it has a pretty uninteresting villain. "what if the master but in reverse and with no moral ambiguity"

    from a purely artistic perspective fallout 1 is almost objectively superior.

    from a mechanics and to a certain extent, a worldbuilding, perspective fallout 2 is superior.

    but overall fallout 2 is just a perfectly mixed bag of good and bad.
     
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  14. Millim

    Millim Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite [REDACTED]

    Oct 13, 2010
    Fallout 1 has a better story and themes.
    It actually makes the trek across the Wasteland seem hopeless and is the closest thing to an American Metro game.
    While it may be non canon, the ending where the Vault Dweller shoots the Overseerer to me, is the perfect conclusion to these themes. You ventured out far from Home and grew into becoming someone bitter.
    You saved the Vault at the cost of yourself. If you were playing a good character, this comes across as more of a tragedy than a victory.

    Fallout 2 caps off the first game and brings things full circle. If Fallout 1 was about Nihilism, than Fallout 2 is about Hope. I don't think the story or themes are as good, and sadly it suffers from a lot of the issues I had with Fallout 1, which weren't so bad in F1 given the length. But by F2, those issues graded on me.

    So yeah, F1 is the better game, but I still live F2 to death.
     
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  15. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    You can spam Deathclaws spawn at the Boneyard's warehouse between the Blades and the Gun Runners. Wipe out the Deathclaws in the surface, go to the Blades area, rest for 1 hour, and the Deathclaws respawn. Repeat as much as you want. Obviously, don't kill the Mother Deathclaw and her eggs, otherwise the Deathclaws won't respawn anymore.
     
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  16. SquidWard

    SquidWard Pirate and Bankrobber oTO Orderite

    Jun 1, 2018
    Their plan is beyond turning everyone into "monsters." You've obviously not got the entire idea of The Master down. To The Master and the Supermutants, they aren't monsters. They are the next step in humanity's evolution if we want to survive. Richard Grey was turned into the Master and it gave him opportunity to create new mutants, ones he had mental influence over. If he can control a perfect breed to never be violent once he wipes out the violent ones (humans), then he can achieve world peace with an intelligent and powerful race.

    There's faults in the plans though. That's the great part. You don't just talk him down, you show him that while he's aiming for a benevolent world, his vision will not be achieved. There are two struggles, one Richard is familiar with and one he is not. One of them is that many Supermutants he's creating aren't as intelligent enough and even lacking compared to most humans. Some of them are of course and he's looking for the right formula to make them more intelligent overall. The other, he seems to not know about until you learn about it (you can't just bullshit this information) and tell him. That is that the Supermutants cannot reproduce without constantly dipping humans in vats of FEV. They cannot sexually reproduce. And when he's learned that his plan is a failure, he regrets the things he's done. He sees that all the horrors and acts of evil he's done in the name of a greater good are in vain. There's nothing he's doing to help anyone. He's not helping humans and he's not helping Supermutants.

    He knows he's committing atrocious acts against humanity but he believes it's for a greater good and it's an arguable side. One that doesn't feel like it's evil for the sake of being evil nor does it feel completely misinformed. And when he's shown he's misinformed he admits it and gives up.

    That's why The Master is a good villain. Sure it's that Wasteland horror trope but it's not so bland with it either. There's a scientist in Fallout 2 you can convince of something similar but the leaders still won't ever be shown this vision and Horrigan is literally just a hulking mutant that doesn't even know he's a mutant. He's an iconic villain don't get me wrong but he's got nothing on the Master. Horrigan and his leaders will always believe that radiated humans are mutants that need to be annihilated, there's no possible way they could be wrong or inferior to these "mutants."

    I appreciate Fallout 1 and 2 a lot but from an artistic and design standpoint, Fallout 1 will always take the cake. It's a major theme of how does humanity go forward after a worldwide atomic crisis? Does humanity as it currently is even deserve a second chance? Should it be changed, forcibly or not? That's a big question. Do we deserve to survive after what we've done? The game reinforces this throughout at points too. The Brotherhood want to keep dangerous technology from humans that could cause atomic annihilation again. That's, in a way, a very similar idea. We've obviously messed up and why should we, as a race, be trusted again?

    Maybe no one else sees it like that. But when I played Fallout 1, that's the big theme I got. There were others, sure, but that was the major point driven home to me. The Glow was a big part of that too. Someone jokingly told me to go to a relic, a graveyard, of our former world. A place void of life, a pit in the ground. A sinkhole full of despair.
     
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  17. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Heh I am reminded of an old thread I made many years ago; What if the Enclave was a social experiment: http://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/what-if-the-enclave-was-a-social-experiment-as-well.185264/

    In my take I had it in mind that you could convince the president about the flaws in his plans and that the Enclave itself was just another experiment. He and his people were actually just lab rats in someone else's plans.
     
  18. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    618
    Jul 2, 2016
    Poe's law for life huh?
     
  19. Kohno

    Kohno Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    885
    Jul 30, 2009
    Same here.
     
  20. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Antediluvian as Feck

    Nov 26, 2007
    I'm the reverse... but I would take Fallout 2 over Fallout, if I could only keep one of them.
    (It's bigger, and has many improvements that Fallout needed from the beginning.)