Fallout: New Vegas developers quotes round-up

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by WorstUsernameEver, Dec 16, 2010.

  1. WorstUsernameEver

    WorstUsernameEver But best title ever!

    May 28, 2010
    There's never a shortage of subjects to discuss about this game apparently, as the Vault has another juicy quotes round-up ready for us.

    Project Director Josh Sawyer on the Legion:<blockquote>Were you honestly expecting such a negative reception for Caesar's Legion?

    I don't really think there has been a tremendously negative reaction to Caesar's Legion. Some people really hate various aspects of the Legion but most people either don't seem to care or like the Legion. I'd rather have people show strong opinions about a well-defined enemy than have everyone shrug their shoulders at Generic Bad Dude Faction #825.

    Doesn't your answer kind of implies that Caesar's Legion is "non-generic" bad guy faction? It kinda clashes with your promises of moral grayness.

    Caesar's Legion is positioned as a faction that regularly does brutal things with the belief (Caesar's belief, anyway) that it will eventually lead to a much better, more stable, future. NCR is positioned as a faction that regularly does good things but systemically "loses" causes and pushes people around through neglect, bureaucratic inefficiency, and petty jealousy/spite.

    The player's first encounters with each group are intentionally "bad guy"/"good guy" to set up an expectation that changes over time. While it well may be that people end F:NV believing that Caesar's Legion is the best solution to the problems in the Mojave Wasteland, I don't think many folks walk away thinking, "Misogynist slaver tyrants are really cool, good folks."
    And honestly, what I say outside of the context of the game doesn't really have any bearing on what you think or what any player thinks. In the game, you're given the option to fully support the Legion's conquest of New Vegas/the Mojave Wasteland.

    Short version: Caesar takes whatever pieces of history he finds useful and disregards things he doesn't find useful. He has specific goals and uses history as a tool to meet those goals. When history doesn't help him, he doesn't use it. Even things like a reluctance to use advanced technology have more to do with his desire to keep the Legion ignorant/dependent on him than with anything "historical". Control is very important to him, even if it means that the people who serve him lack any of the medical knowledge necessary to help diagnose or treat his problems. It's very important for Caesar to maintain that the Legion is different. It is physically different, has different values, and different priorities. When Romans were wearing pants, they thought people wearing skirts were barbarians. When Romans wore togas, they thought people wearing pants were barbarians. People on the other side of that river wear pants. Our identity is good, your identity is bad.

    Clearly there are many things Caesar does that work against his goals, or choices he made to emphasize one goal over a conflicting goal and it resulted in problems. But it's important to understand that Caesar calls the shots in the Legion. And when Caesar's not around, it's someone following his lead. Whether that's Lanius or Joshua Graham, there's not going to be a fun party when one of these guys rolls into your town. Events in the vein of Tamerlane and Simon de Montfort are going to happen. Events that culminate in pyramids of human heads, mass blindings, and burning a cathedral down with an entire congregation inside. </blockquote>Balancing and patch:<blockquote>The full changelog would be a novella, but I can say that balance-wise, a lot of energy weapon stats were changed (usually a change to DAM and ammo cost), energy ammo was modified (duh), sniper rifle and Gobi DAM/crit chance multipliers were lowered, missile launcher and fat man had DAM increases, a boatload of recipes were made a lot simpler (fewer ingredients and a lower count per ingredient), Caravan AI should now play face cards against the player, merchants will stop playing Caravan with the player after five games, and "some other stuff".</blockquote>Will Dead Money have a trailer?:<blockquote>We'll definitely be releasing a trailer. It'll be before the content gets released. </blockquote>Thanks Ausir.
     
  2. Paul_cz

    Paul_cz Mildly Dipped

    515
    Jun 11, 2008
    I really like how outspoken Josh is.
    Especially compared to Bethesda devs !
     
  3. Innawerkz

    Innawerkz First time out of the vault

    88
    Feb 23, 2010
    Agreed. Probably the difference between being passionate about your creation and following through with what you believe is a good game vs. promising the world, not delivering and then baffling & bullshitting your way to sales.

    A designer vs. marketer mindset, if you will.
     
  4. FolcoTook

    FolcoTook First time out of the vault

    42
    Jun 5, 2007
    Bummer, there goes fleecing the NCR ambassador for all he's worth. :P
     
  5. Ausir

    Ausir Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 20, 2003
    Only merchants stop at five games. Other characters can play as long as they have money.
     
  6. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    It's a good idea, as merchants are the only npcs who restock their caps.
     
  7. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Ha-hah.

    Not just a river in Egypt.
     
  8. Alphadrop

    Alphadrop A right proper chap.

    Aug 21, 2008
    Shame they got up to the showing the Legion is evil and then forgot about the second part.
     
  9. Ausir

    Ausir Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 20, 2003
    I'm afraid the Hegelian dialectics bullshit was supposed to be the second part.
     
  10. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    I think the whole "oh yeah, we're enslaved and women are raped but hey at least the caravans run on time" was supposed to be the whole moral grey area.

    Y'know, I think JE Sawyer mentioned once that In the Name of the Rose is one of his favourite books. And while I think the book and Eco in general has good writing and has a pretty good detective plot, it's filled with vapid academic masturbation that serves no purpose. The Hegelian dialectics spiel is similar but comes across even worse because it is put into bite-sized chunks and any idea behind it has been lost before it reaches us.

    I really like J.E. Sawyer, but the more he talks about Caesar's Legion the more the whole thing makes more sense as "his baby", and the more I think the dev staff could've done with more people willing to stand up to the lead and go "dude, seriously, bad idea."
     
  11. UncannyGarlic

    UncannyGarlic Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 6, 2008
    Yeah he seems pretty set to defend it. Actually his no negative reaction spiel was very Bethesdian (reminded me of the Fallout 3 ending comments) but I think that unlike Bethesda, he actually buys into it. I don't understand how you can explain the legion in the way that he does and not say that they are a clear-cut evil faction or at the very least that Caesar is clearly pure evil. I'm with you, it seems like it was his baby and he was unwilling to let it go. Hell, it wouldn't have made it over from Van Buren if it wasn't.
     
  12. generalissimofurioso

    generalissimofurioso The Hole Time Orderite

    Jun 17, 2007
    Maybe he's one of those moral relativists you hear so much about.
     
  13. Gaddes

    Gaddes Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    381
    May 18, 2010
    I like Josh Sawyer. I can understand why he defends The Legion since it's his "baby" and what not, but yeah, the idea is pretty damn silly.
     
  14. Surf Solar

    Surf Solar So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2009
    I wouldn't completely dismiss the Legion and say it's a "bad idea", only the execution is wrong and undeveloped.

    Though I would wish that J.E. Sawyer has a bit of a less "defensive" spelling there, it looks like he is cornered and tries to talk his way out there. He doesn't have to, applying some mistakes or certain undeveloped things would be far more sympathic then coming up with this Hegelian dialectics.
     
  15. Yazman

    Yazman It Wandered In From the Wastes

    134
    Dec 23, 2004
    "Were you honestly expecting such a negative reaction towards Caesar's Legion?"

    I haven't seen a negative reaction. I've seen a few people here and there voice discontent but overall I've seen a pretty positive reaction towards them, i.e. to me most people I've seen think they are a good faction, fit with the game quite well and add a lot to it.

    Whoever asked that question, I wonder how they got the impression that there's some sort of overwhelmingly negative reaction to them. I haven't seen anything that even points to that.
     
  16. Kindo

    Kindo Still Mildly Glowing

    200
    Jun 26, 2003
    People who feel some way or another, tend to do what they can to strengthen their own viewpoint. Whoever asked the question chose to phrase it in a way that made it sound like he was voicing the opinion of a majority, rather than his own, personal concern. Not a very professional way to approach the subject, but what can you expect? Hopefully, Sawyer didn't read too much into it. I agree that the idea behind the Legion is great, and I don't have too many objections against the execution, aside from a few things here and there. Mostly I think they should've received more room to convince the player of their cause (in a non-obvious way of course), but overall I'm pleased.
     
  17. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Yes, why would you expect professionalism? This is a social media Q&A mode.

    Also, I am amused that the people who like the Legion just outright pretend there's no negative reaction. Talk about confirmation bias.
     
  18. Arden

    Arden Still Mildly Glowing

    250
    Feb 26, 2010
    There are different kinds of like/dislike for CL. One is the faction for itself, especially that is modelled after rome and how far the roman theme is taken. The other, and i guess thats what was meant with the above question, is if CL is just a generic evil faction or if they move in a grey area, like Sawyer sees it. Obsidian said that there would be no clear distinction between good and evil but only shades of gray. To most people the NCR comes off as clearly good and CL as very bad. The guy asking the question is having problems with CL's moral stance and how anyone could judge it as grey instead of black and not that they are roman.

    Sawyer is a bit defensive, but i think i start to see what he meant with morally grey. If CL had turned up sooner on the FO-Timeline he would be right too. In a truly post-apocalyptic wasteland where everything is chaotic and bands of raiders harass people, where mutated beasts roam and survival is very hard, leading to cannibalism etc.. CL could work. It would take harsh measures to bring about order. Sure crucifications and burnings are extreme, but if people are really desperate they will submit themselves to any ruler who gives them a bit of safety and order. CL would aim for a basically good thing (stability, safety, civilization) by following a brute path because they see it as the only viable option for the time being. The end justifies the means.

    The problem is, that by the time of FO:NV such a brutal path and hard measures are not needed anymore. There is already quite a bit of order in the wastes, other factions have secured their place in the world. So CL is never a sensible choice if there are factions like NCR and House. They may not be perfect but at least you don't get crucified for saying so.

    Being tortured, raped, killed and eaten by raiders (evil) < rule by Caesars Legion (grey)
    Ruled by CL (evil) < ruled by NCR or House (grey or even good)
     
  19. WorstUsernameEver

    WorstUsernameEver But best title ever!

    May 28, 2010
    Well, considering that the guy who asked was me... and aside, why should I have been professional in the first place? I wasn't interviewing Sawyer for a job, I was asking him a question I was interested in. Also, no, personally, I don't like the Legion but I certainly don't hate it either, it mostly fell flat to me because there was little grey about it. There's certainly a very large number of people I've seen on various forums that have a strong dislike for the faction though (e.g. Something Awful, the Bethesda official boards, the Obsidian boards, etc.), and I don't remember a reaction like that to.. *dum dum* the Enclave in Fallout 3, for example.
     
  20. Kindo

    Kindo Still Mildly Glowing

    200
    Jun 26, 2003
    Well met. By sounding professional, I simply meant the question immediately felt skewed to your personal preference, rather than explaining that you've noticed a recurring criticism from several sources (yourself included) that the Legion generally hasn't come across as something great. It just sounds a bit wrong to make it sound like it's such a vastly disliked faction, as if it were something Obsidian has received a lot of really bad feedback for. Either way, your point is valid; it's not your responsibility to alter your own questions to make them sound more 'professional.' I still think it sounds misrepresentative, though. ;)