Is Obsidian actually full of different people now?

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by Ugly Kid, Dec 29, 2021.

  1. Ugly Kid

    Ugly Kid Still Mildly Glowing

    206
    May 9, 2018
    I keep hearing that but the only person who I've heard left is Chris Avellone. And not only that but Tim Cain and Leonard Boesrauruararsky have joined. I feel like most of the important people (for Fallout at least) are still there.

    Or is it that when people say Obsidian is a different company now they just mean the games aren't as good?
     
  2. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    John Gonzalez who was the primary writer behind NV is elsewhere.
     
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  3. Ugly Kid

    Ugly Kid Still Mildly Glowing

    206
    May 9, 2018
    Are there any more who left?
     
  4. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Likely a non insignificant amount of designers and artists of various kinds.
     
  5. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    Jorge Salgado was a fairly significant designer that's not with the company anymore, though he left well after the "Obsidian is a different company now" thing started.
     
  6. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Gonk 0 Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    This guy is the one that mattered.
     
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  7. Slaughter Manslaught

    Slaughter Manslaught Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 11, 2006
    AFAIK the only relevant FNV guy on Obsidian right now is Josh Sawyer.

    Obsidian nowadays is full of Danger Hairs, and I would't trust those people to write a Fallout game
     
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  8. Lucas9

    Lucas9 Still Mildly Glowing

    215
    Jan 16, 2016
    They mean both things: that many people involved in New Vegas are no longer in the company, and because of that, that the games aren't as good.

    What they consistently ignore:
    • Obsidian hasn't worked on a Fallout game since then. Meaning the idea that a new Fallout game from Obsidian would be bad is unsustained.
    • The Outer Worlds was an entirely new IP. If it was bad or not, it has no bearing on how Obsidian would handle the Fallout IP.
    • Josh Sawyer didn't work on The Outer Worlds, and the guy was essentially the father of New Vegas.
    • And again, even though Sawyer did work on Pillars of Eternity I & II, it has no bearing on how he would handle the Fallout IP.
    • As you said, Tim Cain and Leonardo Boyarsky are at Obsidian. Two of the fathers of Fallout, plus the father of New Vegas. These people understand Fallout. This alone gives me hope.
    • And because Sawyer, despite whatever you may think of his political inclinations, is a no nonsense developer, I think a Fallout game made by the three of them would be great, no matter how many danger hairs are present at Obsidian.
    Bottomline is, most people saying "Obsidian is a different company" are basically saying "Fallout is in great hands, Bethesda's!".
     
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  9. Norzan

    Norzan Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 7, 2017
    How is making mediocre ass games not have any bearing on how a Fallout game would be handled? If they are willing to release games of this quality, they would have no qualms releasing a mediocre Fallout game. Them working on Fallout now wouldn't suddenly allow them to make a good game.

    Yeah, the two guys that made The Outer Worlds.

    John Gonzales was far more responsible for the quality in New Vegas than Sawyer was and he's not in the company anymore, along with a bunch of other people that were also more responsible for the quality in New Vegas than Sawyer. That combined with the recent output of Obsidian says to me they can no longer make a good Fallout game because key people are missing, and the ones in it are off their rocker thinking shit like The Outer Worlds is acceptable.

    Literally no one says this. What people say is that current Obsidian is really no better than Bethesda. They both suck.
     
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  10. Lucas9

    Lucas9 Still Mildly Glowing

    215
    Jan 16, 2016
    Would you say all of Obsidian's catalog until New Vegas consisted of stellar, 10/10 games?
    Not saying New Vegas is one such game, but it is certainly far more remembered than any other Obsidian game, even above KOTOR 2.

    Likewise, many people thought Bethesda kept releasing 10/10 games, and they still hated Fallout 76. So how you've done in the past has nothing to do with how you'll do in the future.

    I'm not in position to say that a new Fallout game from Obsidian would be excellent. All I'm saying is that I would have hope.

    I don't think Sawyer, Cain, and Boyarsky would let that happen. The Outer Worlds was a new IP, and for sure was Cain and Boyarsky's idea, but if the concept of the IP fails, there's not much you can do about it. Fallout on the other hand is a tried and true IP. You just need to stick to the formula.

    The writer over the lead director of the game, who went as far as to make a mod that addressed many of the gameplay issues New Vegas had (within the possibilities of the G.E.C.K.)? I have no doubt John Gonzalez had a lot to do with the game, but let's not downplay Sawyer's influence.
     
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  11. Risewild

    Risewild Carbon Dated and Proud
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    But Fallout 76 wasn't really made by the same people who made Fallout 3 and 4. It was made by a totally newly acquired studio, not to mention that being focused on multiplayer would already make many people who love the single player games not like 76 (let alone all the fiasco that was the release of that game).

    Basically, the studio who made Fallout 76 has never done Fallout in the past, so the comparison is not really valid. :confused:
     
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  12. Lucas9

    Lucas9 Still Mildly Glowing

    215
    Jan 16, 2016
    Oh, that's good to know.
    In which case, I'll resort to the comparison I had in mind when writing that post before changing it to Fallout 76.

    Fallout 4 was well received by the Bethesda userbase, though many complained it was watered down compared to Fallout 3.
     
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  13. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    You mean that influx of newcomers? And by this, it could also means either newcomers to Fallout series, newcomers to RPGs, or even newcomers to gaming.

    I vaguely remembered someone made some kind of analysis on how Bethesda built their userbase (or perhaps they don't made an actual analysis; just a simple observation from a glance). Bethesda has been relying on hype(r) marketing since...Fallout 3? Skyrim? Basically, they went all out on marketing to the point of even attracting people who has never gaming in their own entire life, up until they saw Bethesda's marketing. This resulted in an influx of newcomers, who happens to dwarfs the rest of the fanbase made up of those who either had a taste of Bethesda's previous works, or even other games. You can see how this has happened again and again after the release of Bethesda's Fallouts. I only heard of what happened when Fallout 3 was first released, but I was pretty much there when Fallout 4 was released. Even though I wasn't frequenting this forum at the time of Fallout 76's release, I can see the exact same thing happened again.

    And it would probably happen again when the next official Fallout hits the market proper, as an influx of newcomers comes pouring in, together with an influx of people disappointed that Bethesda basically fixes what's not even broken, or as per usual, dumbing down the already watered down gameplay mechanics.

    Anyway, on topic of the thread, reminder that Tim Cain said all these:
    I have yet to play The Outer Worlds, but after what he said here, and reception by Codexers and people around here....yeah, I guess I'll push TOW way, way down to the bottom of my supermassive black hole of a backlog.
     
  14. Norzan

    Norzan Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 7, 2017

    This is some dumb shit. The character creation in these games are not too complex, they are relatively easy to understand. Sure, there is a learning curve, but that's the fun part about it. Finding out how things work.

    To go back on the topic of Obsidian making a Fallout game, Todd Howard has pretty much confirmed it's not happening. His recent interview with IGN claiming that Fallout is part of Bethesda's DNA (which is laughable but whatever) confirms that Bethesda has no interest in allowing any other company to make Fallout games, regardless if Microsoft is their boss now.
     
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  15. Lucas9

    Lucas9 Still Mildly Glowing

    215
    Jan 16, 2016
    I mean those who are fans of Bethesda games in general, meaning Oblivion, Fallout 3, (mostly) Fallout: New Vegas, and Skyrim.
    We know that Morrowind fans are an entirely different breed, not to mention classic Fallout fans.

    Regarding Cain: in my ideal Fallout game, Sawyer is in charge of the gameplay, while both are in charge of making Fallout feel like Fallout. I don't trust Cain when it comes to making a complex game anymore. That The Outer Worlds was a first-person action RPG is proof of it.
     
  16. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    Huh? I've seen fair amount Fallout 3 fans disappointed in 4. And New Vegas? New Vegas is everything Fallout 4 couldn't ever hope to be; I'm sure it's not an exaggeration to say more than half (or even way more than that) of NV's fans are quite vocal in criticizing 4. Otherwise, the comment section of the nuFallout's community wouldn't be this much of a battlefield to this day.
    As for Skyrim's....eh, I can see why Skyrim's 'fans' would like Fallout 4. I wasn't paying attention to Oblivion, though.
     
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  17. Norzan

    Norzan Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 7, 2017
    Fallout 4 is probably one of the lowest rated games in the series by users in several sites, with only Fallout 76 beating it. So there was clear disappointment towards the game from plenty of Bethesda fans, more than any game prior.

    And while there are fans of Bethesda games and New Vegas, there is also a substantial group of people that like either one or other.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
  18. Lucas9

    Lucas9 Still Mildly Glowing

    215
    Jan 16, 2016
    Didn't I say so? :think:
    That even though Fallout 4 was well received, many still dislike quite a few of its watered down elements. Which doesn't mean they disliked the game, because many continue playing it.

    But that's what I meant earlier: even though they loved previous Bethesda games, they didn't as readily love Fallout 4 as they had done with other Beth games before.
     
  19. Millim

    Millim Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite

    Oct 13, 2010
    People like to think Obsidian is something it never was.
    New Vegas is probably the only game by them to reach the success of a mainstream audience, maybe KOTOR 2 as well. But otherwise, they are only pushed by a cult following, a cult following which would look at any change as a bad thing.

    Yes, some talented People have left the Company, that's just how things go.
    Yes, they haven't made a game as good as New Vegas since then, but they also didn't make a game as good as NV before.

    A new Obsidian Fallout Game would probably be very good, it may also be awful. The Outer Worlds was a decent follow up to the Fallout idea, it just needed to be expanded a bit more (which is why I say it sets up a better sequel).
    I don't think it gives a clear indication on how a new Falloutian (my new word for Obsidian Fallout), would play. It's a different setting, engine, genre and IP. The only comparison it has with Fallout is that it has the same structure as the original Fallout.
     
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  20. Lucas9

    Lucas9 Still Mildly Glowing

    215
    Jan 16, 2016
    Couldn't have said it simpler myself.
    Truth is no one had any reason to think New Vegas was going to be that good before it released.
     
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