*sigh* NPC level scaling

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude, Oct 29, 2008.

  1. Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude

    Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jul 9, 2004
    Was hoping this nasty little "feature" wouldn't make it into the game, but it's here alright.

    At level two I passed under the bridge near the vault and was assaulted by molerats. They were easily dispatched with two shots to the face (no crits).

    At level three I passed under the same bridge, and to my dismay the molerats were replaced by dogs which took seven (SEVEN) shots to the face (no crits) to drop.

    I wonder if the zombie dogs will be replaced by deathclaws at level four.
     
  2. frosty_theaussie

    frosty_theaussie Still Mildly Glowing

    270
    Nov 22, 2003
    Yes but I believe the issue with level scaling is if you come back at level 20 and there's Satan Himself standing there looking slightly miffed, ready to wail into you. That causes a slight disparity.
     
  3. Bolocko

    Bolocko First time out of the vault

    12
    Sep 25, 2008
    Pretty sure that was just chance occurrence. I'm at level six and still getting a bunch of easily-dispatched mole rats, and dogs die quicker, too. Nothing of a higher level has come to "replace" them.
     
  4. Mutoes

    Mutoes Mildly Dipped

    519
    Feb 5, 2008
    You must have been in one of those "level scaling dedicated" areas, right....uh, please !?
     
  5. Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude

    Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jul 9, 2004
    God I hope so. I'd rather not wait months until some version of OOO is released (if ever) to fix that sort of shit.
     
  6. Wazza

    Wazza First time out of the vault

    27
    Sep 11, 2008
    Wait a second - I was under the impression there was to be no level scaling in the game?!? When did that back-flip? :wtf:
     
  7. Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude

    Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jul 9, 2004
    It's always been in, at least for the main quest (Which is fine, but scaling everything wondering the wastes is moronic). Then there's a mechanic in place to lock certain areas to a specific level based on your own level when you enter them.
     
  8. Heraopx21

    Heraopx21 First time out of the vault

    21
    Oct 29, 2008
    This gets much worse, I'm meeting those wonderful Deathclaws where I used to meet Raiders in skimpy armour attacking me with switchblades.
     
  9. Jiggly McNerdington

    Jiggly McNerdington Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    334
    Jul 14, 2007
    Pretty sure it's (Somewhat) chance. I went to Super Duper Mart at something like level 3 only a couple hours into the game, and found a deathclaw which had killed 4 wastelanders and 2 raiders (Quite spectacularly, I'll add. Gibs everywhere), and only had maybe 5-10% of its health left. Fortunately it was wounded enough I was able to empty about a clip into its head in VATS and take it down. Unfortunately I didn't get any XP for killing the nearly dead beasty. Damn.
     
  10. Jebus

    Jebus Background Radiant
    Orderite

    Jan 29, 2004
    I had an encounter with a Deathclaw outside the supermarkt near Megaton, at level 3.

    I don't think there's level scaling involved.


    (Also, I killed him with my pistol - he was down to 25% of his HP due to a previous gunfight with a 'wasteland wanderer', tho')
    (Also, I shot his head clean off with my 10mm. Heh.)
     
  11. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    Not all of it is level scaling, but it feels as if there;s quite a bit.

    At level 4 I wandered the wastes a lot, and I dispatched 3 fully armed holed-up raider strongholds (one of them in the Bethesda Offices) without coming close to being hurt. Either I'm God with this combat system, or there's level scaling.
     
  12. Texas Renegade

    Texas Renegade Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    390
    Aug 21, 2008
    Or you could just be higher level then some of the areas you have encountered?

    I am level 4 and running around the area between Arefu and Megaton still and have yet to encounter anything major. Mostly raiders, molerats, rad roaches, and dogs. Worst thing I have encountered were some radscorpions at level 3. Came back at 4 though and all that was there were roaches. Except for the SM with a minigun I encountered at level 2 and had to retreat from as I was low on ammon and out of SPs.

    Am playing the game on hard difficulty.
     
  13. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    You mean *all* of the areas I've encountered.

    Also, taking down a Deathclaw only takes 4 shots from a hunting rifle, apparently.
     
  14. TheWesDude

    TheWesDude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 25, 2005
    from what i understand every area has a level range associated with it.

    your level when you enter it each time determines what level it is, and then its a random for it

    say you are level 5 entering an area scaled 3-5, it would have a lvl range of 4-5

    say u are 15 entering a 13-18 area, it would be 14-16 range
     
  15. Hobo In A Box

    Hobo In A Box First time out of the vault

    99
    Oct 29, 2008
    Ah come on!

    Didn't they promise in an interview that if you went into a hardcore area, you would get your ass kicked and if you went back to a low level area at level 20, you could rampage the place and kill them all?
     
  16. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    The way it's been described, the difficulty of a new area is set when you enter it. So if you go in somewhere, get killed and reload outside, then go in some other direction instead, you will get a new difficulty when you enter the area later because it's still the first time. If you go in and run off without dying, it will remain at the same difficulty later.
     
  17. evolart

    evolart First time out of the vault

    1
    Oct 29, 2008
    I really have no seen any level scaling at all...not sure what you guys are referring to. Pretty sure they even said many many times before that level scaling was done....no one really liked it and it was a failed feature in Oblivion.
     
  18. Texas Renegade

    Texas Renegade Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    390
    Aug 21, 2008
    Looking at the strategy guide, I don't see anything about area leveling perse'.

    However, I think Per is correct in how it is implemented. The enemy level is set when you first enter an area.

    There are levels that you are more likely to encounter enemies, though it says you can encounter most enemies at any point in the game randomly.
     
  19. Jiggly McNerdington

    Jiggly McNerdington Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    334
    Jul 14, 2007
    Hmmm. Don't think that happens to everyone, since I haven't heard it much apart from me and you. Maybe that's what part of their random encounter thing is. In certain key areas there's a chance to spawn a particular encounter?
     
  20. Mztr44

    Mztr44 First time out of the vault

    17
    Jun 25, 2007
    I'm not sure if theres level scaling or not i've got over 20 hours in so far and have yet to find any areas that kick my ass. The hardest encounter i've had so far was at the very beginning of the game right after I left the vault, my first encounter in fact. I ran into a scavenger with a pet dog and a flamethrower. After that it was all molerats and dogs until I stumbled on Bigtown and got to fight some supermutants with nailboards and hunting rifles. Seven levels later i'm STILL encountering supermutants with nailboards and hunting rifles. I've fought a grand total of 3 supermutants with miniguns and one raider with a missile launcher.

    I am starting to get the feeling that shop items are level scaled like in Oblivion though. Every other level or so, whenever I go to trade in some junk for caps, I notice that the gear is just a tiny bit better than what has previously been available. No worries about leveled loot though, its all the same. There are maybe 30 different items worth actually picking up and its all everyday stuff.

    As for the deathclaw everyone is encountering at the supermarket, that has to be a scripted scenario.

    [spoiler:1c5fa0874d]Hes just there so you can loot a deathclaw hand off of him to turn into a deathclaw glove using the schematic found on a dead trader nearby. Just another case of pandering to the casual player, by making the deathclaw already near death so you don't get enjoyment of actually hunting and killing a deathclaw just to make that glove.[/spoiler:1c5fa0874d]