Some odd "holes" in Fallout 3
- Thread starter Foobar
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AstroManLuca
First time out of the vault
Foobar said:
LogisticEarth
First time out of the vault
AstroManLuca said:
Is this a joke or not? Just wondering, because the batteries they show hooked up to the lights and such are very clearly the lead-acid batteries used in common cars. Bethseda re-deisgned the micro-fusion cells to be little battery-like things instead of the big power-pack type batteries they were before.
Slaughter Manslaught
Vault Senior Citizen
One strange hole I found is that, well...
Many things in the game led me to believe that a showdown between Lucas Simms and Colin Moriarty was coming soon, and you could be a part of it. Instead, Lucas tells you to disarm a bomb, and Moriarty gives info about dad for some caps or sends you on a quest to fetch some shit for him from a junkie girl. What the hell? Dude, you're the local crimelord of the town, don't you have anyone that needs to die 'round here?
Many things in the game led me to believe that a showdown between Lucas Simms and Colin Moriarty was coming soon, and you could be a part of it. Instead, Lucas tells you to disarm a bomb, and Moriarty gives info about dad for some caps or sends you on a quest to fetch some shit for him from a junkie girl. What the hell? Dude, you're the local crimelord of the town, don't you have anyone that needs to die 'round here?
I think the point of Moriarty was that he was someone that no one trusted, but he was a petty criminal, hardly anything near the level of, say, Gizmo.
The batteries were definitely lead/acid batteries much like modern batteries, albiet a touch smaller. Does anyone else notice that when you use laser weapons, when you reload them it looks like double-A's mounted in a powerpack? lol. Sigh...
The batteries were definitely lead/acid batteries much like modern batteries, albiet a touch smaller. Does anyone else notice that when you use laser weapons, when you reload them it looks like double-A's mounted in a powerpack? lol. Sigh...
eddoctorwho
First time out of the vault
I think the lasers are supposed to be capacitor-powered weapons, hence the loud "crack" when they discharge. I'm just surprised there are so many left, 200 years after the war. I'd think by this time there'd be a lot more, I dunno, sort of custom or hand-built weapons, like the .32 hunting rifle (which I actually felt had a pretty decent Fallout feel to it), or if you want a real-world example, those Enfield rifle clones that Pashtun tribesmen make, or even crude blackpowder weapons (cased ammunition is difficult to manufacture without working factories) and pipe rifles.
It still looks like double-A's, but I agree on the Hunting Rifle, it's one of my favorites, simply because it seems more accurate as to what people might be carrying (though even that's a stretch, where do all these bullets come from?) It also makes the game challenging =)
AstroManLuca
First time out of the vault
LogisticEarth said:
Not a joke, though I mistyped and meant to say Fission-powered.
There's no way of knowing what power source the battery uses. You can pick up fission batteries in the game, though, and they're pretty heavy at 10 WG.
If you want to put it in an "everything has to make sense!" perspective, you could say that once fission power became compact and cheap enough, they started replacing old lead-acid batteries with fission batteries for cars. Because it was a gradual transition rather than an immediate shift, they gave the new fission batteries the same style case so existing cars wouldn't have to be redesigned to accommodate them.
Same explanation for energy cells. They look like AAs because they are the same size and shape. That way, they can power all the AA-powered devices out there.
Anyway, nuclear power has been my explanation for any questions of how anything is still powered after all these years in the Fallout world. It's amazingly long-lasting - look at the Voyager 2 probe, which is expected to last another 15-20 years (45-50 years after its launch) before its power source finally runs out.
A couple hole's I found is that the buildings look more like a warzone than decomposing with age. It was supposed to be an atomic war, not a war with a couple nukes thrown in. The big nukes would blow a big area up (ground 0) then not touch anything and kill with radiation for miles around. Then you would have any plants which could survive the nuclear fallout overgrowing everything. The end of the mall has nice fresh cut grass on it. Who mowed that? After 200 years with noone cutting back anything an not trampling over everything, it would be all overgrown. If there were no plants, there would be no air and everyone would die.
The world would be dirty like it is, because it would be so much bigger with way more stuff in it and about the same amount of people looking out for themself not starting up cleaning businesses. They would rumage through stuff take what they want and leave; not tidy up the place...
Another thing is all the mutants/gouls. Those are totally unbelieveable. Should just be a bunch of nothing with a few radroaches thrown in. Kinda like I AM LEGEND without the zombies/dogs. Just roaches. The only people who should be around should stay next to the vaults and build civilization around them. The climate would be all screwed up, so we would probably live underground in the vaults and create more "vaults" and probably just a vault world with them all linked together.
As the vaults would be a dimly lit world since birth. The only people who would live "top-side" would be the criminals (kinda like how austrailia started). You would find shelter from the sun as your eyes would hurt from being outside and it would be so hot. People would only come out at night, and the people outside would really only lookout for themselves as they are living in a world of only criminals. And they would have a hard time meeting people/reproducing so after the first generation, 95% of them would be dead.
There are not enough skeletons around as this was supposed to be a highly populated area. The deaths from nuclear fallout would be sky high, yet there is only a skeleton here or there. (Maybe the people who are supposed to be cleaning up everything for everyone also collects the skeletons and throws them in the ocean! lol)
gawd. Up until nuclear war is the only "believable" part of the fallout storylines to begin with. Energy weapons can exist with ammo everywhere (probably from the aliens who came down while everyone was in vaults.. :rolleyes
but we can't have an old ass appleII computer with power?
as far as fallout2, I'll mention something that bugged me early on in the game that is along the lines of what you are complaining about. When you climb down into the rat caves, how do you see? Rats don't need lights down there, The people outside have it locked off so they wouldn't light any lights. Why are the lights lit down there?
The world would be dirty like it is, because it would be so much bigger with way more stuff in it and about the same amount of people looking out for themself not starting up cleaning businesses. They would rumage through stuff take what they want and leave; not tidy up the place...
Another thing is all the mutants/gouls. Those are totally unbelieveable. Should just be a bunch of nothing with a few radroaches thrown in. Kinda like I AM LEGEND without the zombies/dogs. Just roaches. The only people who should be around should stay next to the vaults and build civilization around them. The climate would be all screwed up, so we would probably live underground in the vaults and create more "vaults" and probably just a vault world with them all linked together.
As the vaults would be a dimly lit world since birth. The only people who would live "top-side" would be the criminals (kinda like how austrailia started). You would find shelter from the sun as your eyes would hurt from being outside and it would be so hot. People would only come out at night, and the people outside would really only lookout for themselves as they are living in a world of only criminals. And they would have a hard time meeting people/reproducing so after the first generation, 95% of them would be dead.
There are not enough skeletons around as this was supposed to be a highly populated area. The deaths from nuclear fallout would be sky high, yet there is only a skeleton here or there. (Maybe the people who are supposed to be cleaning up everything for everyone also collects the skeletons and throws them in the ocean! lol)
gawd. Up until nuclear war is the only "believable" part of the fallout storylines to begin with. Energy weapons can exist with ammo everywhere (probably from the aliens who came down while everyone was in vaults.. :rolleyes
but we can't have an old ass appleII computer with power?as far as fallout2, I'll mention something that bugged me early on in the game that is along the lines of what you are complaining about. When you climb down into the rat caves, how do you see? Rats don't need lights down there, The people outside have it locked off so they wouldn't light any lights. Why are the lights lit down there?
VRaptor117
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Just FYI, the availibility of power in the wasteland is attributed to an extensive network of underground power stations and redundant lines running through the wasteland. This information is found on a comp in a SATCOM tower in the northwest, I think the one with the...well, with the very unique yet useless weapon.
Here are the worst offenders IMO:
-The ending, which I won't spoiler, but which is just retarded in the enormous plot hole it has. Destiny?!?! *&^% you mutie, get in there!
-Twopenny towers: Ok, I picked the wrong horse, obviously, but why the karma hit for payback?
-Gob in Megaton: Is he a slave? Why can I not bust him out? Why does his mom just cave like that?
-Dunwich building: Where is the book? Why can I not interact with anything?
-Outcast/BOS reconciliation and the Lyons pride succession arc: Didn't get put in, even though every one in BOS will talk about it and you can find holotapes that seem like quest triggers for it.
-Arefu: Wait, I'm getting good karma for doing what again? And I just saved your brother, so my reward is... no more dialogue from you! Awesome!
-Big Town: Wow, 4 supermutants? Good thing I showed up! Wish I could have given you all the armor and guns I stockpiled, but OK you go on with those .32's
-Little Lamplight: This place survived 200 years with this setup how again? Oh right, atomic war made kids invulnerable, gotcha.
-Leo Stahl. I'm so badass I talked him out of shooting smack. Too bad his family don't give a rats ass. Or even acknowledge it.
-Those! Again, a scientist deserves death, but i lose karma. Thanks for my 12th bonus stat point so far... nice RPG we got goin here, eh? Oh and good luck crossing the wasteland alone, kid, I'd help you get there, but you know... busy.
-Radiation. Means nothing apparently, because even though everything, all the food in the game, is irradiated, we still have people living here. I guess everyone lives on stims and Radaway, I know I did.
-People. There are like 100 in the wasteland, and they decide to live in groups of 3-4. Yeah that's how you keep humanity going.
-Corpses. Are the new crepe paper and confetti, who doesn't love to decorate with entrails!
-Dad. What kind of fucking engineer are you, anyway?!?
The Wasteland: Atomic cars and vintage clapboard houses? Fail.
-The ending, which I won't spoiler, but which is just retarded in the enormous plot hole it has. Destiny?!?! *&^% you mutie, get in there!
-Twopenny towers: Ok, I picked the wrong horse, obviously, but why the karma hit for payback?
-Gob in Megaton: Is he a slave? Why can I not bust him out? Why does his mom just cave like that?
-Dunwich building: Where is the book? Why can I not interact with anything?
-Outcast/BOS reconciliation and the Lyons pride succession arc: Didn't get put in, even though every one in BOS will talk about it and you can find holotapes that seem like quest triggers for it.
-Arefu: Wait, I'm getting good karma for doing what again? And I just saved your brother, so my reward is... no more dialogue from you! Awesome!
-Big Town: Wow, 4 supermutants? Good thing I showed up! Wish I could have given you all the armor and guns I stockpiled, but OK you go on with those .32's
-Little Lamplight: This place survived 200 years with this setup how again? Oh right, atomic war made kids invulnerable, gotcha.
-Leo Stahl. I'm so badass I talked him out of shooting smack. Too bad his family don't give a rats ass. Or even acknowledge it.
-Those! Again, a scientist deserves death, but i lose karma. Thanks for my 12th bonus stat point so far... nice RPG we got goin here, eh? Oh and good luck crossing the wasteland alone, kid, I'd help you get there, but you know... busy.
-Radiation. Means nothing apparently, because even though everything, all the food in the game, is irradiated, we still have people living here. I guess everyone lives on stims and Radaway, I know I did.
-People. There are like 100 in the wasteland, and they decide to live in groups of 3-4. Yeah that's how you keep humanity going.
-Corpses. Are the new crepe paper and confetti, who doesn't love to decorate with entrails!
-Dad. What kind of fucking engineer are you, anyway?!?
The Wasteland: Atomic cars and vintage clapboard houses? Fail.
I like how Docter Li is constantly shouting at me while managing not to take off her trademark semi-friendly expressionless facial expression. She must've found a huge supply of botox or something.
Radioactive
First time out of the vault
These inaccuracies aren't mistakes or oversights they're conscious decisions and concessions to fun over realism. Realism is only one factor you have to weigh when creating a good game, fun is another and while that factor is deep within the territory of opinion, I think they made the right choice in the balance they struck.
If you must resolve it within your mind there are things like considering that in the Fallout universe they developed their food preservation technology and computer technology and localized neighborhood atomic power generators (as have been in the news in our own reality lately) to the point where these things become more believable... after all, their development did stop at 2077, and they were on par with us at the time of the divergence. Clearly, things like plasma rifles and power armor indicate that they were very advanced, perhaps their computers for instance, only appear to be primitive, perhaps they were deliberately made to look that way out of a conscious decision for the whole society to return to a simpler time, take on the trappings of the 50's all over again in many ways.
Anyone who can create robots as we see in the Fallout world, would have to be able to make some very advanced computers. Maybe all the vacuum tube and 2 color display stuff is just a reaction to developments and cultural trends we've seen in our world too, a crack down and a backlash *shrug*
But it's better to just realize that realism is not the chief concern when making a game, usually. I love realism but I still acknowledge it has to take a back seat at some point and kneel before fun.
If you must resolve it within your mind there are things like considering that in the Fallout universe they developed their food preservation technology and computer technology and localized neighborhood atomic power generators (as have been in the news in our own reality lately) to the point where these things become more believable... after all, their development did stop at 2077, and they were on par with us at the time of the divergence. Clearly, things like plasma rifles and power armor indicate that they were very advanced, perhaps their computers for instance, only appear to be primitive, perhaps they were deliberately made to look that way out of a conscious decision for the whole society to return to a simpler time, take on the trappings of the 50's all over again in many ways.
Anyone who can create robots as we see in the Fallout world, would have to be able to make some very advanced computers. Maybe all the vacuum tube and 2 color display stuff is just a reaction to developments and cultural trends we've seen in our world too, a crack down and a backlash *shrug*
But it's better to just realize that realism is not the chief concern when making a game, usually. I love realism but I still acknowledge it has to take a back seat at some point and kneel before fun.
It isn't so much about realism as we know it, but realism within the context of the world that's presented to us. In a word: verisimilitude. Some things can be explained away with SCIENCE!™ the same way that many fantasy settings explain away oddities with MAGIC!™, but others really stretch that excuse thin.
Besides, some things in the game fly in the face of both contextual and contemporary realism, such as wooden homes that have somehow survived the ravages of nuclear detonations and 200 years of neglect, scavengers, and mother nature's cruel elements. That sort of thing detracts from the overall experience for some, including me.
Besides, some things in the game fly in the face of both contextual and contemporary realism, such as wooden homes that have somehow survived the ravages of nuclear detonations and 200 years of neglect, scavengers, and mother nature's cruel elements. That sort of thing detracts from the overall experience for some, including me.
Leon said:
Oh pleeeeeease. You think THAT when discovering wooden homes? Who says it is wood? Who says they have been built BEFORE the nuclear fire?
You are lacking imagination, seriously. I had to remember all the thieves and some citizens in PST looked exactly the same. And this is one of the few things I am still able to remember as it has been a long, yes a very, very long time, since I played it the last time.
THIS was an issue.
You are doing micrology and don't even notice how retarded your examples sound.