What would you like to see in a true Fallout sequel?

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Bunkermensch, Jun 18, 2007.

  1. Keono

    Keono First time out of the vault

    Jun 20, 2007
    I know I'm just a new guy, but here's what I honestly think:

    It is too early to decide what engine we are going to use, but we can always discuss it and see what our possibilities are and which of those are realistic. I think FIFE (http://www.fifengine.de/) looks really interesting and not too hard, it's based on the Fallout engine. It's still in the works though, but as is our project. I suggest that whoever has some programming skills should have a look at that.

    As for the location: I really like the idea of going to Europe, but I think that staying in the US would be the best. The fifties style plus the language makes it a winner to me. It also would be easier if we would want to connect our project to the original Fallouts.

    And lastly, I'm going to write a little story and background now and see if anyone likes it. So I'll be gone and busy now.

  2. jgwolfgram

    jgwolfgram First time out of the vault

    Jun 18, 2007
    Wow things got a little more lively in here.

    I first met up with bunkermensch in the BGS forums, one night I was drunk and he mentioned something about how F3 sucked, and the only way we'd get a good one is if we created it ourselves. So the following day we drafted a post that looks much like the first one on this thread. Good thing I had him to help me because all I could really come up with was "hey guys lets make F3!" - when he promptly told me everybody would dismiss me as a n00b...and he would have been correct. But with this, it looks like we got a nice little responce...and now its time to take it a step further.

    I propose calling a "town meeting" in a chat room setting. IRC would work best for this. We need to discuss organization, nominate some type of leadership, and make it clear to everyone that this will be open to the entire community, everything should be open to the entire community - with larger issues (later on) being resolved by voting. I dont think its fair for one or two people to take control and make the big decisions.

    Once we get down organization, as well as a board to post our ideas on, this is the first thing we need to discuss and create:


    This should be handled very delicatly, because it will either make us or break us. People should write page long descriptions of what they think would be a good idea, then it should be ripped to 1000 peices by everybody else, and this should be done for at least a week before we decide what will work. Once a week goes by, a vote should occur to decide what description works the best, if none work at the time then an extention should be given.

    Also thank you to monsharen for all your suggestions, they will definatly help.

    So, the agenda for this meeting is as follows:

    1. Introductions - People may introduce themselves with a short bio - and what they can bring to the table (just being a fan works)
    2. Basic organization - who can work on what
    3. Where we can set up a board.
    4. Who can start writing a description, and a short summary of what they want OUR version to look like.

    For the first meeting, this should be all we talk about, because I dont really see us going too far without a good description of what we want.

    I propose that we have this meeting on Friday, June 22nd at 6pm EST (11pm GMT) on IRC server irc.gamesurge.net at channel #falloutfans

    If you support this, then reply, because if not enough people are going to be there, then there's no point in doing it, if thats the case we would have to find another way to organize ourselves (but I believe this will work). Invite whoever you think may be interested. Now would also be a good time for you programmers to step up and express your intrest as well, if any. Oh and if any of you know some of the original creators of fallout, dont hesitate to invite them as well =P

    I would also like somewhat of a role in organizing and getting things together, but as for a main leadership role, my job permits that - as I have travel obligations that may last up to a year and a half in length.

    So have at it...good idea to have a "town meeting", or not?

    EDIT: spelling
  3. Silencer

    Silencer Night Watchman Staff Member Admin

    Nov 7, 2003
  4. Keono

    Keono First time out of the vault

    Jun 20, 2007
    Well, I would like to go to the IRC meeting at that site, but I don't know if I can make it with my job and all. If we can create a forum, I could post there and discuss the matters needed.

    We could use proboards btw.
  5. Bunkermensch

    Bunkermensch It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Sep 12, 2006
    the discussion level really reached some low end now. It had started quite nicely with some interesting ideas.
    Really a pity :-[
  6. egalor

    egalor Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jun 20, 2007
    Well, we've discussed with my friends some crucial points we should concentrate on. I present these ideas in some order.
    Please comment and add your ideas.

    1. First we should decide on the engine we'll use.
    Maybe it's a bit too early to develop the graphical aspect, but must bear in mind the fact that the existence of fo2mapper makes our work a great deal easie, because the most difficult question is technical part of the game. Who would dare to build a whole new bug-free engine for free? None, I suppose. So, having fo2mapper in our hands we will save a lot of effort and time, while preserving the classic Fallout touch.
    On the other hand, we have also freeware FIFE, but there is much more work to be done. So, are there any coders who could make something with that engine in short period of time?
    The same thing goes with additional art - we have to decide whether we will use it or not. I suggest we do. Any 2d artists out there? :)

    2. Most probably, it is reasonable to introduce some new equipment (definitely Geiger counter), and particlarly, new weapons. If we do, then we will have to edit the new system for the weapons: parameters like stats, damage, weight, availabilty AND to balance it. I don't actually think we'll have to re-write the whole system, but some review would be necessary.
    The same thing goes with new vehicles, since I suggest we add something more than just a car, perhaps bikes, or something else.

    3. Less important things for the time being are: the soundtrack and the video cutscenes. I'm sure there is a lot of specialists in the field among us, for example I myself could make a few tracks for the project. And perhaps somebody could render a nice video. But currently, this is not a priority, but we should bear that in mind.

    4. Now that we have decided what the engine would be, it is time to actually start working.

    First, we should define the background: where the game will take place (Florida, Texas, California, Europe or else), at what period of time comparing to FO1 and FO2 storyline.
    Draw a map.
    Pinpoint cities and major locations, other places of interest (for example, Cafe of Broken Dreams, or anything else).
    Design cities, first on a sheet of paper with a pencil.
    Describe the common inhabitants/places.

    After we have more or less clear understanding as for what the world would be, it's time we come up with the main plot. Main plot, as we understand it, is one of the most tricky yet rewarding things. We will have to discuss pretty much here, but anyway I suppose each of the writers should present their own complete plot. Then their plots will undertake critics and thence edited accordingly. Finally, we should choose one of them, or a combination of them. (Here I must note, however, that compromise is a very good thing, and is very much sought after, but some authors might get disappointed, when their works are rejected. But there is no other way, so let's have it clear in advance.)

    As for the plot, generally speaking, I suggest it should be flexible, with different endings according to the PCs actions and have subplots, maybe even some false leads.

    Additionally, we will have to design a lot of unrelated quests, which, however, should not be as stupid as in Icewind Dale. :)

    At this stage we will have to give birth and introduce the NPCs, and dialogues with them. NPCs will have to be stylish, "Falloutish", maybe there's reason to import some NPCs from FO1/2. Dialogues must be deep, multi-levelled and depend on the stats of the PC. And there should be the way to finish the game without a single shot (in reasonable way, of course).

    After we've set up the general view of the world, created the first version of the main plot, introduced the army of the NPCs (no less) we could now add necessary new locations/NPCs to the general view of the world.

    So at this stage we should have:

    - the world with background;
    - detailed locations;
    - main plotline;
    - other quests;
    - NPCs;
    - dialogues.

    This is the major part of our work.

    Now, I would like to share some of my very approximate contemplations regarding the human resources and the time needed.

    Creating background, story - 2 weeks (I think it's enough for one person to come up with something feasible within this term, and bring it to discussion).

    Writing dialogues - 1 month (provided no less than 5 people are working).

    Adding new art - 1 month (I think 2 to 3 artists should be enough).

    Meddling with the engine - depends on what engine we shall use and quantity of coders available (if we use fo2mapper, this period would be 2 weeks at maximum, otherwise it might take up to a year or more).

    Creating NPCs - 1 month (along with the dialogues).

    Choosing and compiling optional (unrelated) quests: during the whole process. I think we'll gather these ideas from all people, willing to contribute. However, this compilation might take a month.

    All in all, adding delays, unexpected problems, lets multiply the terms by 2. So, we'll get something like 12 months to finish the game, with 25+ people involved.

    Please note this is very approximate, and we need to discuss it. Perhaps, even, I've omitted something important :)

    Another idea: in order to accumulate some sporadic yet valuable ideas concerning the project, we should establish some kind of updateable archive, where we will store the ideas gathered from all around, and use them later. I think I can brush the forum and collect these ideas in one place.

    That's it, guys. And of course, we are to work under deadline, please note it. Otherwise it's most likely bound to fail.

    Regarding the fanmadefallout.com and vbrevival.blogspot.com they are good. However,we, FO fans should unite and create one game for the rest of of us to enjoy. I suggest we contact those guys, and try to join our forces, and to streamline their effort, too? More than that, fanmadefallout.com set the release date for 2010. This is unacceptable in any reasonable way!

    So, my first sporadic idea: why don't we use East Coast, Florida? There's a lot of there: New Orleans (we could make certain allusions concerning the flood), Disneyland :) , Daytona Beach, Miami and much else. Maybe we should also add some islands.

    Your ideas, gentlemen.
  7. Bunkermensch

    Bunkermensch It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Sep 12, 2006
    Disneyland and Fallout? OMG :lol:

    Pls calm down comrade :D

    There is really not the need for any decision on an engine first. You are assuming things that could get wrong as you are limited to a screen resolution of 640x480 by using the original Fallout engine and its mapper. So its just not suitable to nowadays screens as they are 20" upwards. Just look at F2 on such a screen it is ridiculous tiny!

    First there must be discussion about gameplay, theme, setting, storyline and not "we must build a game now!" "we need people who can this and that!"
    Maybe there is no need for a game? But then you already have plenty good people and some high end Fallout2 engine waiting to get feed with stuff to be able to display it 640x480 resolution! :P
    For discussion simply open a forum, I guess I would have a look at that.
  8. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    Then you have already failed.

    I predict doom and gloom. I shall also laugh.

    Ha ha ha ha!
  9. Bunkermensch

    Bunkermensch It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Sep 12, 2006
    I don't feel like failing, since I just wanted to model some fallout like game which could have been some fun. At least when your aims are low failing is hard to achieve. So please stop these "comments".

    A pity that you have not that many ideas inhere.
  10. jgwolfgram

    jgwolfgram First time out of the vault

    Jun 18, 2007
    @ egalor

    While I like your enthusiasm, I dont think its easy for you to assume such a timeline, you dont know how many people are willing to work on this project, how much time people are willing to spendon such tasks, or even if people want the same thing as you.

    Further organization is required, we've not identified writers, programmers, artists, designers, project leaders - or anything yet. It just seems your trying to get up and sprint before you can crawl. And I really dont think its fair for you and a few of your friends to decide for the whole community what should be done. And personally, I would prefer a 3D top down system, if we're going to do it, we should do it right. I do like the idea of having the people working on other fallout projects help on this. But we really need to see what kind of people and resources we can pool together before we start assuming timelines and such things.

    Bunkermensch is right, we need to discuss what we want first, and I think its best we all sit down and make some decisions in a real time chat based environment right now, to see what kind of support we can get.
  11. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    Oh, I thought you were aiming for "a game which can be called a true Fallout sequel", "a true sequel" and finishing either Troika's PA engine or the VB engine. But hey, what do I know about aiming low.

    The giveaway is that even when more sensible people start talking about organization, division of labour and deadlines, your reaction is to go, "No, we should do the fun, easy and utterly non-productive stuff before we even start thinking about that!" There's a reason why we vat mod announcements which amount to nothing more than "I have these great ideas and as soon as I get a bunch of slaves to script for me, whoosh". If this thread doesn't head in that other, more sensible direction, it may well tread into green goo and mutate. Because your current attitude is a brilliant recipe for five tons of fail.

    Post quality is measured in ideas, huh? Tell you what, I'll give you free ideas and writing when Wooz gives you free art.
  12. Bunkermensch

    Bunkermensch It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Sep 12, 2006
    Now this is some comment, thank you for that :P

    So ... it was a start of the discussion how something like that could look like. So aim lay on discussion not on implementing. Maybe I could have pointed that out a bit more, though I did not want to give too narrow borders to discussion.

    I really see no sense in just start doing something without knowing what actually has to be done. I mean this idea of a discussion on how a Fallout sequel can look like is a few days young, so why the hell should we have to start building a fucking game now? At least with such an unorganized troop of randomized people? Id rather discuss with them "fun things" instead of disappoint us with "doing a game".

    I know that here are many people who actually are talented. It is a pity that the whole power is not focused on something outstanding. Instead, there are plenty teams working on different Fallout mods, actually on old Fallout2 engine. I doubt we need mooore Fallout modifications.

    You can really make something great if the community leaders will coordinate a project like a falloutish sequel.

    So long creating a model of a sequel is fun enough for me :P
  13. jgwolfgram

    jgwolfgram First time out of the vault

    Jun 18, 2007
    Thats what we need community leaders. Wouldn't that be something if the guys at NMA tried to head such a project? Hmm...or at least back such a project? A lot of us may have great organizational / leadership skills, but who's going to follow any of us? Maybe, with a lot of work it can happen...or maybe NMA will back such a project - not a mod, a new game with the 3d top down style we all saw and wanted from Van Buren.
  14. Keono

    Keono First time out of the vault

    Jun 20, 2007
    Okay... *sighs*

    First off, this: I have no programming skills, I'm no expert designer, I'm not a professional storywriter, none of that. But I am a fan of Fallout, I really love those games, though I'm not even an expert at that. So know that I'm just this, and whatever you think of that is up to you.

    Now, I know that everyone here must like Fallout, what else are you doing here? Knowing that, it's very likely that not many of you are enjoying Bethesda's ways of 'handling' the Fallout franchise. I at first thought they might pull it off, sort of, because of the money and the press who always seem to back them up. Then I read some interviews and I thought they were going to mess it up badly. When the teaser came out I was actually content; they were heading in the right direction and on the way they added a pretty big dose of 'fanservice'. But with the recent article in the Game Informer, I could read between the lines and feel how they were just way off. And now I've read an interview with Todd Howard... it killed my spirit. He mentioned the dialogue trees being a lot like Oblivion, which would mean your character only speaks one word and the NPC has to do all the talking to fill you in. And the worst thing I've heard is Todd Howard saying that "If you are a fan who is adamantly against some significant changes to the way gameplay occurs in the Fallout series, I’m going to tell you right now and save you the disappointment: I don’t think you’ll like Fallout 3."

    So that's pretty much a big FU to everyone who enjoys Fallout for everything it is. Todd just liked the atmosphere and all the originality, he thought it would be cool to rip it off and have an anal jousting match with it so he could do something of his own... with 'evolved' game mechanics, a Resident Evil mutant and a nuclear slingshot thing while trying to survive the radiation (yeah, they really thought that one through). Thanks for f*cking up my favorite franchise Todd, thanks for gutting my youth. What're you gonna kill next, Spider-man/Transformers/Star Wars/Die Hard/Sam & Max/Rambo/Double Dragon/Zelda/Swat Cats/Terminator/Sonic/The Terrible f*ckin' Thunder f*ckin' Lizzards... F*CKIN'

    So where does this leave me? Well, I recently heard from someone who PM'ed me at the Bethesda forum about this topic. So now I see others who are displeased and they want to do something, they want to create a true sequel to Fallout, a sequel worthy of the name and the fans who wholeheartedly enjoyed the first two games. I hear some good ideas, but nothing is really happening. Well, I would really like that to change.

    This is not meant to be something emotional, I don't mean to draw attention to my opinion or whatever crap one might think. I would like everyone who doesn't like the current progress and wants to do something about it to actually do that. Any help is welcome, as long as we're really trying to create a sequel worthy of the name 'Fallout'. What can we do? I have no idea as of yet, but I want to find out and see what we can come up with. There's got to be enough talented people out there, and even more good ideas. Let's gather 'em all and at least try something. That is all I would like.

    So, if you're even remotely interested in helping out, check out this forum, register and let's discuss this. Because I don't want a crappy sequel to be the end of Fallout, I hope you do neither.


    See you at the other side,

  15. ChrisUbe

    ChrisUbe First time out of the vault

    Jun 19, 2007
    Hey, I started posting in the new forum. However I know that there was talk about having a sub forum on the NMA server is this possbile?
  16. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Indeed, when a young man's heart is filled with passion to make his very own computer game :D.

    Edit: Fan Made Fallout is not dead.
  17. egalor

    egalor Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jun 20, 2007
    Okay people, lets discuss, on and on. We could even think over some really great things, and eventually bury them in tons of other posts. Pity, eh?

    So, I think I'll start some other thread, and see who shall join our common endeavour.

    P.S. fanmadefallout is not dead? :) I think three years is far toooo long. It's mummified, rather than dead, with all due respect to the developers.
  18. jgwolfgram

    jgwolfgram First time out of the vault

    Jun 18, 2007
    Do you read other people's posts? Like at all? We've already got another forum started, no need for another thread.

  19. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    If you get something solid set up, other than 'yeah, we're like going to do this'.
  20. jgwolfgram

    jgwolfgram First time out of the vault

    Jun 18, 2007
    We are not ready for this yet. If this takes off it will take several weeks in order for that to happen. When it is the appropriate time, someone will contact you - and hopefully something can agreed upon. Once again, I appreciate your support.

    For everybody else:
    If you are interested in any of this, please head over to the forum we have set up until we can get ourselves further organized.