Why modders aren't united?

[egalor]

I wondering. There are so many talented and dedicated modders in the world - killap, Fan Made Fallout, Black Rain, MIB team, Team X and others. Everyone of them seems to be connected to the internet. And everyone of them is bent on making a huge total conversion of the game, a no easy task for a full time team.

Why wouldn't they try to unite? What if somebody issued a call to unite them all under one banner, and consolidate their common efforts? I think then we'll have a dedicated community, large enough to undertake projects of this scale and finish them in reasonable time. Just curious, anyway.

 

[Jesterka]

Because we're fucking stupid.

Well, you probably wanted to hear this: lets make an UFMABR! (Union of Fallout Modders and antiBeth rebels) Might be a great supplement to EU, Commonwealth, etc.

 

[Brother None]

Why wouldn't they try to unite? What if somebody issued a call to unite them all under one banner, and consolidate their common efforts?

I wish it worked that way

But the only answer I can offer is: it doesn't

Don't even try to unite Mutants Rising and Fan Made Fallout

But yeah, I share MCA's disappointment that more hasn't been done with the released tools. But we'll see what the future holds

 

[Jesterka]

Don't even try to unite Mutants Rising and Fan Made Fallout

This might be a bit unviable because this projects are rarely alive at the same time.

But yeah, I share MCA's disappointment that more hasn't been done with the released tools. But we'll see what the future holds

When/where Chris said that? Give us a proof!

Also, it's quite a cock-up that BIS dialogue tool is still missing and probably lost for ever.

 

[egalor]

So, your point is that they all pursue their own and different agendas, and they are all too touchy when it comes to changing them?

I thought about after posting. But, this way these fan-made games are, in fact, doomed to be amateurish, and won't ever match their retail counterparts (it doesn't concern the venerable FO modders, though). How sad.

I mean, somebody will always have to sacrifice something for the sake of common good... I doubt it's reasonable to think that their own idea is the best idea ever - but as long as they do, we won't be getting anywhere.

I hope in the future somebody manages to make a global indie (non-commercial?) development team, with a serious and grown-up attitude. Such as, for example, the developers of Age of Decadence.

 

[Chris Parks]

I wondering. There are so many talented and dedicated modders in the world - killap, Fan Made Fallout, Black Rain, MIB team, Team X

And MR never gets a mention.

I have tried in the past to work together with other modders, but doing so means one team has to completely abandon their project which nobody would want to do.

This might be a bit unviable because this projects are rarely alive at the same time.

HEY! Mr has been alive an active now for well over a year since I arrived.

 

[egalor]

Sorry, Chris I simply haven't heard of MR (but I simply never keep track of modder communities)

 

[Brother None]

When/where Chris said that? Give us a proof!

Here
Chris Avellone
They're passionate. And impossible to please.

I do wish they had done more with the Fallout editor once it was released, though, especially the more vocal members of the community

 

[Jesterka]

So, your point is that they all pursue their own and different agendas, and they are all too touchy when it comes to changing them?

I thought about after posting. But, this way these fan-made games are, in fact, doomed to be amateurish, and won't ever match their retail counterparts (it doesn't concern the venerable FO modders, though). How sad.

Take your hyperoptimistic pink glasses off, egalor. IMHO, the point is not to unite all the modders (what a communism), but regulate the number of possible new-born projects and persuade them to join some well established group.

And doomed to be amateurish is probably everything what's not made with/for money. That is, by the way, another reason why the hell you can't dictate them anything; we're modding for fun in our free time! Yay!

Another problem may be the fact that lot of projects has arisen from distant communities/countries damn far from NMA.

 

[Per]

Why wouldn't they try to unite? What if somebody issued a call to unite them all under one banner, and consolidate their common efforts?

Every so often someone shows up and suggests this as if it were a bright new idea, and I usually vat them. You might think that if you throw enough people in a pile, something can't help not crawling out from under there, but as BN said, it just doesn't work that way. There are basically just two truths:

1. Finished mod is finished.

2. Unfinished mod is unfinished.

3. Only focused work finishes a mod.

4. An unfinished mod counts for shit.

That's four, but they're still true. The reason modders don't get things done is that they lack the vision, talent and drive - because if they had all that, they'd finish their work and surprise us with it.

Pulling more people together and starting new fuzzy development processes is the answer to an irrelevant problem. If anything, you'd waste the talent of the people who'd actually get something done when choosing their own assignments.

 

[Jotisz]

Totally agree with you Per.

 

[Demonslayer]

Doesn't work because

1 - Every modder has it's own ideas and visions of the work.

2 - Someone has to do the hard work and someone will have to do the easier, in this porportion some modders might think they're more important and want more recognition.

3 - It's hard to work with a team working in the internet.

4 - It's hard to manage a team if noone has the charisma/skills to be the leader and coordenate the team.

5 - Some modders are better than others.

6 - When you work alone is easier to have a track on the work done, easier to leave and when re-picked up to continue.

7 - Most modders want the "I did this, behold!" not the "We did this, ".

 

[Jesterka]

Man, you just named a secondary problems that can be eliminated by your mentioned super charismatic leader. Saving point 6, which is related to minor mods, not total conversion projects (work on a mod in proportions of FO1 alone is not even an utopia, but that's another story).

Btw that OMFG look I have a new c00l idea topics mentioned by Per are basically needless at all, but also somehow funny to read.

 

[Wild_qwerty]

Err well a few yeas years ago Mutants Rising and the comunity mods teams merged. MR is still around but basicaly all the other mod team member left except one or two.

Having lots of modders on a team doesn't mean it will get done faster, actually having less members who are more dedicated seems to work better.

Most of us modders actively help each other through forums such as this anyway. There are various 'freelance' modders who move from team to team doing work as requested.

Conitunium and Siren have made various art work for different mods. A lot of modders release tools that enable others to mod , team x, jochua and timeslip spring to mind. NMA provides a forum to share ideas and ask for help. We do actually work together a lot more than most people realise, we just have our own little projects we like to work on as well.

 

[Prosper]

I wondering. There are so many talented and dedicated modders in the world - killap, Fan Made Fallout, Black Rain, MIB team, Team X and others. Everyone of them seems to be connected to the internet. And everyone of them is bent on making a huge total conversion of the game, a no easy task for a full time team.

Why wouldn't they try to unite? What if somebody issued a call to unite them all under one banner, and consolidate their common efforts? I think then we'll have a dedicated community, large enough to undertake projects of this scale and finish them in reasonable time. Just curious, anyway.

In America they outlawed monopolies.

 

[Karel]

Why are there so many Linux distributions instead of one? Because there are groups of people who need / want to achieve completely different things.

Every big mod does the job in a different way, and suits different people. Right now, I believe "the scene" is becoming more and more lively, there is even a sense of competition, which is very good.

Working in free time has it's drawbacks, but it's mostly positive - you don't have to skip ideas because PlayStation kids won't grasp the story.

 

[Josan12]

Why wouldn't they try to unite? What if somebody issued a call to unite them all under one banner, and consolidate their common efforts? I think then we'll have a dedicated community, large enough to undertake projects of this scale and finish them in reasonable time. Just curious, anyway.

I sympathise with your perception. Its true
what many have said: too many modders
spoil the broth. But similarly, to few
modders makes a weak, watery gruel!

But, this way these fan-made games are, in fact, doomed to be amateurish, and won't ever match their retail counterparts (it doesn't concern the venerable FO modders, though).

Somewhat unfortunately, I agree.

 

[Chris Parks]

But similarly, to few
modders makes a weak, watery gruel!

Why? Killap works on his own and most agree that his work is great. I have worked on my own and have sometimes achieved more work than I owuld do in a group. MIB88 works on his own and most have played tne megamod.

Somewhat unfortunately, I agree.

SOme of the work out there is so close to the original fallout it might as well have been included. Not all the work can be perfect, or liked by everyone, buy you can't lump all modding under the title of amateurish.

 

[Josan12]

SOme of the work out there is so close to the original fallout it might as well have been included. Not all the work can be perfect, or liked by everyone, buy you can't lump all modding under the title of amateurish.

This is true. I suppose we need to make a
distinction between Total Conversions
and true 'modifying' - or modding.
I think egalor is mostly refering to the TC
projects currently on the board.

Im sure we all recognise the important difference
between the two where the first is usually a huge
amount of work requiring a team (such as BGE
or MR) of artist, writers, programmers etc.
The latter - true modding - i agree can be done
very sucessfully by one or two skilled individuals
such as Killap.

However i stand by my position that while modders
remain largely divided and seeking their own glory
TC mods and from-scratch fan-made games will
almost always be:

doomed to be amateurish, and won't ever match their retail counterparts

 

[Jesterka]

Hey, that doomed thing is still a verdict of somebody, who has probably never laid a finger on any kind of modding and basically don't see through at all. This thread is just full of speculations and "ifs", no clear idea, no interesting solution. So, if anything, this discussion is doomed. Sorry.