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PaxVenire said:
To think Securitrons would be enough to stop a vengeful California that's already expended innumerable resources and manpower for their gem in the desert is foolish.
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1 securitron is able to wipe single platoon of NCR, confirmed by Gen. Oliver himself. 1 squad of Securitron might as well as wiping entire company of NCR soldiers. Due to the law of OODA-loop decision making of AI being superior than humans. So nothing so foolish about the whole thing. Especially if Couier's state here is on the defensive, pedging against chokepoint that is southern Primm and Mojave Outpost.



Caesar's Legion able to surpress NCR Ranger snipers by using single unguided howitzer which they barely have experience with. What would happen if Courier start producing dozens of battery of them, with precision guided munitions?

Look at our current modern warfare, even makeshift drones with barely AI operating it (majority of them being human controlled) are more than able to turn manuver warfare into static trench warfare. Not only that Fallout has confirmed AGI (artificial general intelligence), but something as trivial as designing super accurate aimbot-level MG turret, armed with laser gatling, is more than able to hold entire company on hold. And when those soldiers got pinned, howitzer battery will pummel them.


Not only that our modern war shown that even with flat terrain you can defend your territory enough if you got beyond-human capability to deliver munitions, but the geographical features of Mojave valley is not well suited for quick manuver warfare. Too much chokepoint with plenty of designated killzone.

Again, nothing foolish about this idea. NCR had dealt with raiders, asymmetrical warfare style. Same with weakened Enclave and Brotherhood of Steel. Operationally wise, NCR have lots of area to deploy and flank their foes. But in this case, such advantage does not simply come. Robots are simply far more deadly than normal human can be. And operationally flexible. The level of coordination alone is far more, in the era where radio communication and satellite imagery, even friendly fire is unavoidable. But with robots at this level of network? I will say that Courier 6 has lots of chance with winning this.

And it's actually naive to think that Gen Oliver can rally that much support after yet another failure of Mojave Campaign. OWB Mod write some fantastic scenario about how NCR could possibly undergoing civil war due to disagreement with expansionist policy, the oligarchy of Brahmin Baron and landlords, and the independence of some territories that not have receiving their full states status (such as Northern Nevada like Vault City, Reno, etc)
 
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PaxVenire said:
AI will never be superior to humans. OODA loop is just a framework for decision making,
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PaxVenire said:
but the idea of a super-genius perfect Courier is a projection on your part to what the Courier should be when Dust makes him a more fallible character, and there's nothing wrong with that inherently.
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Boy you completely ignored my comments on Securitron feat of wiping single platoon of soldiers. You know how serious that thing is? Our freaking modern quadcopter drone, armed with single grenade or mortar round can wipe out single squad of soldiers without the humans noticing that they are being targeted. This is platoon bro. Why you don't adress that first? Like what kind of tactics NCR will use?

And remember, Securitrons are just one type of weaponry that someone like Courier 6 has in his arsenal. But a single Securitron is confirmed to be such a force multiplier that a combined arms tactic will definitely killing off any invading force.

You also ignored my comments about static defense, you think NCRA gonna going through it like walk in the park if Courier built some nasty trench, smart mines, mortar holes, force field, all kind of missiles systems, and MG nest?

Also regarding battlefield communications and AI advantage of it. Majority of casualties of American force in Gulf War and Iraq War are through friendly fire. There is reason why they have entire airmen units, entire special force for Identification Friend or Foe. And the fact that NCR operates more or less through WW2 style radio communication. This obviously cannot be compared to Securitron's wireless communication whose OTA update allow something as simple as recognizing which shades at that distance are friend or foe. This is particulary important during nighttime engangement or when battlefield is obscured. So OODA loop is clearly favor toward networked AI, the kind of wireless broadcast that allow instant transfer of different type of AI personalities. NCRA clearly don't have anything similiar to modern day FCS Network, whom when compared to Securitron network doesn't seem to be that superior.

I accept the ideas of not-so perfect Courier 6, Courier who never bothered to plan for long-term game. Courier 6 who rush through all quest, barely consider the future of the region. Though, I will be careful from saying AI will never be superior to humans. Especially in the context of Fallout world. They got supercomputer that emulate the neural pattern of human brain, which ZAX is.

So no, the idea of physical aimbots who are connected into wireless network able to destruct conventional army is not foolish. Speaking of robots, The semi-canon war of The Calculator Robots vs Midwest Brotherhood of Steel should be your go to reference how this hypothetical war can be won. A surgical attack of very experienced PA warriors, armed with actual freaking nuke warhead, and bear in mind that this is more suicidal attack than a military operation with plan B.

While talking about ongoing war like Ukraine war can be controversial, but there is no denying here that in the early phase of war, Russian communication was crippled enough to make the whole invasion stalled. Not to mention that plenty of high ranking generals were killed. This is how conventional army fares, against relatively same human force, perhaps with better coordination. Human conventional army vs robotic force with actual AIs? No Nahh...only insane mind would think the former can be superior. You need freaking John Connor style of warfare waged even for that.

But this is just one pathway that you make and plenty of us here criticize Chris Avellone for making the only path forward is through re-destruction of society. Fallout is post-post apocalyptic, and the main appeal of Fallout New Vegas is that. For each games, you get to witness the action of your previous games main character, shaping the society and how nation grow. For Fallout 1, 2 and NV we get a good contrast how NCR vs Brotherhood of Steel progress. Even Bethesda games took some notes from this, as we seen in Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 Lyon's Brotherhood transforming into Arthur Maxson Brotherhood.

PaxVenire said:
Without the Legion, the NCR could easily come after the Courier on all sides, from Reno to the North, Long 15 to the West, Utah to the East, and Arizona to the South. The Mojave ceases to be a one-sided filter for the NCR when their biggest enemy is shattered.
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Except Long 15, everything that you mention there are much easier to be accessed by Courier first and fortified by his/her force.

Like come now, how much you think Reno was annexed? Do you think moving goods and people from Shady sands through there is easier than through Long 15 and Ashton-Hopeville (Dead Valley region)? Northern Nevada is not fully controlled by NCR, not even full state and there is always risk of harassment and distruption for going through that region.

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And Courier's Mojave state is closer to Utah, Arizona and the East than NCR. So what's your point here? NCR under different presidents are not able to finish the whole supply line problem in span of 7 years, let alone invading from much greater distance. This even assuming that Courier 6's state will not expand further (and boy he will, thanks to the advantage of material through the SM. Vending Machine).

TLDR: human piloted drone > conventional army
Fallout AI > human piloted drone
The Calculator's army => Yesman's Securitron > Fallout AI
 
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I must have slept under a rock. But I'm glad that I know about it now.

Is it similar to those popular mods for Stalker and Skyrim that i have forgotten the names of and never played?
 
I've never played the Skyrim ones so I can't comment on that. Mainly played that game on PS3 back in '12 and '13. The stalker ones I tried some time ago, but they never caught my attention — stuck with the old games until 2 HoC came out this autumn.
 
I agree I love Dust. I took many things from Dust for my headcannon. Only thing I would change would be the Great Khans get that good ending since if you go that route they flee immediately once the second battle at Hoover Dam begins. Otherwise I love everything about Dust and any changes would be things my personal Courier would do.

I have a question about Dust I think some of you could answer. I heard that Joshua Graham became a plant monster thing? I encountered the thing but didn't know it was Graham. Does anyone know if this is true?
 
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