A community effort

Discussion in 'Fallout PnP (Pen and Paper)' started by Hassknecht, May 2, 2016.

NMA - A post-apocalyptic roleplaying game?

  1. Interested in playing and helping

    52 vote(s)
    61.9%
  2. Interested in playing

    37 vote(s)
    44.0%
  3. Not interested

    6 vote(s)
    7.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Arnust

    Arnust Maybe you've seen it, maybe, in a dream...

    Feb 2, 2016
    Both, really. Haven't seen much buzz around the project there ither.
     
  2. IckyDisease

    IckyDisease First time out of the vault

    5
    Feb 28, 2018
    Ok thanks.
     
  3. Agnus_Dei

    Agnus_Dei First time out of the vault

    35
    Jun 30, 2017
    Project got moved to discord, but it was like carrying a dying man to the hospital. It expired, or maybe in coma.
     
  4. IckyDisease

    IckyDisease First time out of the vault

    5
    Feb 28, 2018
    Was any progress made on discord before it died?
     
  5. Agnus_Dei

    Agnus_Dei First time out of the vault

    35
    Jun 30, 2017
    No planned deed was accomplished. There is really neither a gatherer and task giver person, nor a crew or a group of people who might be willing to take on a task. Nobody, as far as i know, cares about this project at the moment.
     
  6. IckyDisease

    IckyDisease First time out of the vault

    5
    Feb 28, 2018
    Ok thanks again.
     
  7. Millim

    Millim The Big Straight Orderite

    Oct 13, 2010
    Hmmm, I gonna try and make my own PnP fallout and post it here in case anyone wants to add to it
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  8. ICEFANG13

    ICEFANG13 First time out of the vault

    3
    Aug 12, 2016
    I've quoted my previous post to make it so it doesn't have to be looked for.

    Hello, I see this thread is a bit hit and miss. I've completed the core rule book, it has new perks, new POWs (30 total spells if desired), weapon modifying and crafting. The races are humans, ghouls, super mutants, deathclaws, cyber-dogs, and the C-27 humanoid robot. Combat is too complicated to function without assistance so I've written around 6000 lines of code to handle combat, skill checks, damage, reloading, weapon swapping, SPECIAL checks (and SPECIAL checks between characters) that automatically will draw from character sheets in excel. That part is around half way done I think, but the core is there (I'd like to add in POWs, loot randomizer, and a character creating sheet, like how fallout 1 did it 'automatically' instead of calculating it manually). I'm currently working on my campaign that has 5 players in it and I've been considering streaming it in some way, even though I don't have the tools required to stream it well (a good mic and camera). Would there be any interest in this? Any suggestions?

    As for true pen and paper, I think it's just impossible to do it and be even close to the original without a computer to help. DR and range would have to be basically scrapped at best, and luck wouldn't function well with a d20.

    I'll try to watch responses, I am a bit busy working on it to get it going, there's not set date but I was hoping to start 'overseeing' my friends next month.
     
  9. Agnus_Dei

    Agnus_Dei First time out of the vault

    35
    Jun 30, 2017
    @ICEFANG13
    I'd like go see & play your system, i am hyped.
    But why do you believe that it can only depend on hard and complicated mathematics? There are many aspects in Fallout CRPG which you might not imply in your PnP game, like many skills and d100 check&combat system. A system could get away with only SPECIAL points and can still be called a Fallout PnP.
    I mean, what we've got are 7 main attributes (which are limited to 1-10 or 1-13 or something) to work on. Why would it need master computer math to use them? I think they are usable without getting things up to d100 rolls. We just gotta think a little independently from fallout CRPG's.
     
  10. ICEFANG13

    ICEFANG13 First time out of the vault

    3
    Aug 12, 2016
    It was my goal to have everything as close as possible to the original with a rebalance. I do agree that it's possible to have a solid and awesome d20 system for fallout with the SPECIAL attributes but I maintained every part of the combat. It works very similarly to how fallout does it and it's just a lot to get right.
    First I need to know range, I simplified it down to 4 seconds and made range in 4 increasing increments (which is long, far, medium, and close range, each one is a quarter of the range total and each one has reduced accuracy). It had to be simplified originally because I only recently learned how to program. I asked the players to have an idea what range they have these values so it could always be available which reduces the complexity. After subtracting the AC of the target there is the chance to hit. I decided early on to use the d100 to imitate the % of the skills used (it also uses the d20 for SPECIAL checks, other than damage rolls, these are the only two dice used) which allows me to have a proper crit chance. First draft had the d20 and it felt horrible to say, "make your luck 1, 5, 10, or 15 or you get no benefit). This is where it starts to get more complicated. Each player needs to know their dice roll but I also kept the jinxed trait that works for the person that has it and each person that targets it (it turns the 1-5 on the d100 crit failures to 1-10).

    After the chance to hit is known, there is the ability to make aimed shots and there is the '5' damage types (explosives removed and explosive weapons have a special aoe benefit and deal other damage types). I need to know if jinxed is on the table for each actor and then consider if it's a crit or hit or miss or critical failure. If the aim attack or burst fire is used there is a multiplier that is based on the crit chance for the weapon (it was changed to make non crit builds viable). Aim attacks will cause crippling on criticals, which requires a SPECIAL check of EN vs. the attackers ST/PE or IN or AG (whichever is highest, ST for melee, PE for ranged). The different crippling effects need to consider bonuses to SPECIAL checks or traits/perks like stonewall or rabid. The damage type needs to be corresponded to the armor protection in DR and DT and then the information is needed. The damage roll is taken multiplied by the number of bullets (burst) critical multiplier (if applicable) and other similar modifiers like bonus CQC damage or LRC damage (long range combat, added to make PE more useful and it relates to having noncrit builds). Different damage types have different benefits like armor piercing rounds for normal or fire adding a burst of damage at the end that needs to be considered as well.

    At the end, it works on paper, but the odds of missing something is too great. It requires extremely dedicated players and 'overseers' to function well. The math isn't hard per say, but it does have a lot of potential for error. Early playtesting in alpha was very handwavy because I couldn't keep tract of all details and it make combat very lacking. It was one reason it was worked on sparsely for a year.
     
  11. Agnus_Dei

    Agnus_Dei First time out of the vault

    35
    Jun 30, 2017
    @ICEFANG13 sorry that i couldn't see the reason why you maintained the combat system from Fallout CRPG, but i think we are approaching to Fallout PnP with different base ideals. What i would aim to craft is a system with which i can roleplay in the Fallout universe, and to give that feeling, i think implementing the SPECIAL would just suffice. I mean, why trying hard for the Fallout CRPG's combat system? In Fallout there are guns, melee weapons, armors, which are all stuff exist in, lets say, Cyberpunk 2020 too. A rebalance is not the right thing to do, i think, a new brand combat system would be better in terms of easiness of playing.
     
  12. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Really a shame that this project is so poorly supported. At the time I wanted to write articles to introduce ideas from Van Buren that never made it into any games and of course new ideas for locations, NPCs, organizations, coming up with new mutants.

    I also kept thinking on how I wanted to bring in androids or "synths" if people insist, but something that feels more fitting in the world of Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas.
    One thing I had in mind is when the players finally find the mythical Institute they discover that it is this dilapidated pre war research complex full of remains of the scientists and technicians that used to work here.
    Okay that may sound a bit like the Glow but this place would not have been hit by a nuclear bomb, it just failed. Their only real success were the androids, or at least one of them (I wanted to use the image of DiMA, an android with all kinds of additional attachment to it to compensate for the limitations of the android design as well as being hooked into various computers and memory banks because its "brain" despite being made with the best Pre War technology can not contain a fully developed artificial intelligence on its own)

    This android tried to continue the research of its creators; developing a way of transferring the personality of a human into an android body, giving humans a better chance to survive in the new world and practically immortality.

    A competing project of the Institute was cybernetic implants, improving the human body instead to be more resilient against the rigors of the wasteland, and extending one's lifespan rather than for example put one's brain in a brain bot or think tank.

    Guess which one was the more practical option.
     
  13. AeonG

    AeonG First time out of the vault

    22
    Jun 12, 2016
    Hopefully I'm not necroing this thread for a bad reason because it really fucking sucks to see a noble community effort just die like that, but out of curiousity why not just use Fallout PNP 4.0? What do you all think of it? It's not finished, but it's in constant development and looking to be a much better system than 3.0 was. I think a lot of the weird balancing and weird additions in it can be removed or fixed with house rules, and even then, the balancing in it looks to make much more sense than in previous editions. It also has it's skills spread out to more specialized abilities, making it better to play as a team, as each player will have their own strength. You can find a PDF of it here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1taDyeAZJMWVzaceBcH_mfrsXvShir9UjoLaonNQ8Ipo/edit
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  14. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Yeah, definitely an option.
    Many options have been considered, but the whole project kinda fell into a deep coma since I was overwhelmed with IRL stuff and I guess I didn't communicate properly that this whole thing wasn't supposed to be my thing or even dependent on me at all.

    Anyway, yeah, Fallout PnP 4.0 seems nice. Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of systems that rely on specialist dice like the D100. It's necessary for properly encapsulating Fallout's real system, but all in all it seems rather crunch-heavy. Dunno what others like, though.
    Alright, I swear I'll make a post here soon to try and get this thing on track, even if it's just to make clear that y'all don't need to wait for me :D
     
  15. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I tried to pick up the project again but I kind of got lost on what to focus on first, rule set or lore.
    I already started to play with source books such as the Core Region, the Mojave, stuff from Van Buren, and elements from fan made Fallout games such as Fallout Resurrection.
     
  16. Althalus

    Althalus First time out of the vault

    10
    Oct 23, 2017
    Since it looks like there is a chance this project may be revived again, I wanted to see how much interest there was from people on working on it and to offer my help. I created the Fallout d40 tabletop game but this is not an excuse to try to advertise that or get people interested in it. I am instead interested in helping to create a unique NMA PnP Fallout game with the community and my focus would be on organizing the project and balancing the system as I feel this is one of my stronger skills.

    To show how I am thinking about it, I feel the project could be divided into two overall parts with Part I probably being the slowest part of the project but once the questions in Part I are answered, then Part II can hopefully proceed much faster/smoother and should be easier for many people to work on together. My outline for the project is:

    Part I

    Overall System

    -What overall ‘feel’ do people want for the system? What level of crunch? How much simulation vs. ease of gameplay?

    -What dice do people want to use? What would some of the general resolution mechanics be (ex. a roll d20 system or something else?)

    -Classes or Classless system (don’t need the specific classes yet)


    Once the overall system is decided upon, then I think the next two things to work on are parts of the skills and leveling systems as these will influence a lot of how the other parts of the system will interact.

    Skills

    -Don’t need the specific skills yet but in general how should they work? If we don’t want to use a d100 based system, what scale should the skills work on? Should it be a system like the new Pathfinder with set levels of proficiency?

    Leveling

    -The main thing is how many hit points do characters gain per level as this will influence weapon damage. If we are using classes as part of the system, what hit dice would each class get for hit points? Would they roll for hit points or get a set amount each level? With a set amount of hit points, it’s easier to predict how much damage each class could take at each level. Rolling for hit points creates more variety but could result in high level characters having a low amount of hit points which could influence how much damage each weapon/creature should inflict.

    -Can also discuss if we want to have a traditional leveling system like in Fallout or something else.


    Once Part I is decided upon then it is easier to split the rest of the project into smaller parts and everyone can work on the parts that interest them the most (I think each person picking 1-3 things to focus on might be a good start but everyone could comment on the various parts as they are developed). The categories could include:

    Part II

    -Stats (# of stats, how you determine them, are they just a straight set of modifiers (+1, +2, -1, -2, etc.) or do they influence other aspects of the game directly)

    -Skills (# of skills, how each functions and what benefits each skill gives the character for advancing in it, how quickly you can advance, is it tied to Intelligence like the games?)

    -Races (# of different races, attributes, restrictions on skills, stats, weapons, armor, etc.)

    -Combat

    -Weapons

    -Armor

    -Items

    -Chems

    -Perks

    -Crafting

    -Vehicles

    -Karma

    -Limb Damage Rules (could be optional, I’ve found myself cutting out limb damage rules recently for ease of gameplay)

    -Roleplaying Rules (focus on how to bring more roleplaying into the system so it is not all about combat. Are there certain skills, classes, perks, etc. that could be added? Should there be rules for morale, reaction rolls, etc? Rules for reading and writing, advice on what level of knowledge a particular character may have)

    -Leveling (how do skills, perks and hit points advance each level, any other benefits from leveling, class specific benefits, an XP system)

    -Exploration (how does travelling, movement, time, vision depending on light sources, etc. get determined. Will definitely overlap with combat)

    -Lore/Canon (Do we just compile existing lore from the games/the wiki or do we encourage people on the project to create their own lore for parts of the world that have not been explored in the games? Do we include two separate lore sections, one for established lore/canon and one for people’s own creations? Do we want to limit what is considered canon for this game or only create up to a certain timeline, such as only focusing on lore/canon as it stood at the end of Fallout 2? The rules should allow players to create and add from whatever time/parts of the games they wish but this PnP could just focus on a certain timeline as a reference point)

    -Factions (should belonging to certain factions provide specific bonuses or attributes for characters? Do we include only established Factions or create our own as well?)

    -Bestiary

    -Scenario/Campaign (Do we create a custom scenario/campaign for the system? Do we have people create just individual scenarios/adventures and do we include them in the main book?)


    Finally, three areas that would need to be worked on once the system starts to take shape are:


    -Document Creation/Formatting (if there was someone or a group of people who were interested in creating the document, deciding on layout, style, format, etc. that would be a huge help).

    -Character Sheet(s)

    -Playtesting


    The above lists could be changed and expanded upon as the project goes on but that is my general take on how the project could go. I have almost no familiarity with what tools/websites are available on the internet to help with this but I’m picturing a forum dedicated to the game where each of the categories listed above could get its’ own thread, that way each aspect of the game could be concentrated upon in its own right. Each thread would need a designated person to compile the ideas that are discussed into a document as the discussions go on. Multiple options could be considered with the general group voting on/discussing which option is the way to go as each aspect gets fleshed out. I’d also create a NMA PnP email address that I would monitor so documents could be submitted to a central hub. I could help review for balance this way and also send files to whoever would be compiling/formatting the main document as the group arrives at a consensus. I can also keep track of who is focusing on which categories and try to keep a master list so everyone is on the same page as to who is looking at what. Real life will creep up for everybody so it can be expected that people may need to take breaks from working on the project.


    I’m still working on the d40 game so I wouldn’t be heavily involved in the actual writing for this project (other than notes and commenting in the threads) but I can organize the project, focus on balancing and help facilitate discussions. The fun and challenge for me is to try and look at a Fallout PnP from a completely different perspective and focus on trying to balance the game from the viewpoint of what the NMA community is going for and just try to help it be the best game it can be. I promise there will not be a lot of “Well in MY system I did it this way….” None of that. I am working on a big overhaul for the d40 game right now though, the main feature being converting everything from just hexes/squares to actual feet and I’ve been doing research into realistic ranges for guns. I would be happy to share what I come up with with the group as a reference.

    Super long post, hope that’s ok. If people are interested in getting on board the project and seeing where it can go, make it known and let me know if I can be of help.


    Also as I was writing this I realized it is exactly 58 years until the bombs drop :lol:
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019