Age Cap

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Faceless Stranger, Oct 8, 2010.

  1. Shoveler

    Shoveler Still Mildly Glowing

    Nov 8, 2007

    I've seen no evidence to support that the majority of that 45 million are "mostly young adults". As in under 30 years old. I just haven't seen any proof of that. Not to mention the numbers of those 45 million that have pre-existing conditions that can't get private coverage now for their disease so why pay. I'd be interested in those numbers, I'll try to look it up.

    As I've said before, this is sound in a general sense, but not for this specific 45 million.

    If you saying that my experience is worthless because I haven't visited every ER in the US. Okey-dokey then. Are some hospitals better then others? Obviously, that includes in Finland and anywhere else for that matter. Where are you from again? Netherlands?

    Just because you all have health coverage for all don't try to explain to me it's all equal. Newsflash, it's not.

    I can tell you nursing is highly paid, and highly sought after here. Beyond that, I couldn't give a reason any better than you could.

    I don't recall claiming otherwise.

    Because you leaving out items in you logic that need to be factored in. Pre-existing conditions being a major one. Countless people have difficulty getting coverage due to this, even the ones currently insured, even kids, even all demographics. Many give up trying, but Medicaid will usually cover it, but your income has to be next to non-existant.

    Depending on your definition "making something of themselves". Filthy stinking rich? Maybe not, but able to provide a nice living, for your family, yes those opportunities exist in abundance. As for luck, it factors into everything.

    I'm not rich, never have been, I don't come from money or fame. But I put my head down and show up to work everyday. There's been several times in my past I did jobs I wasn't educated for, why, because I had to survive. I'd do it again if it meant survival, even working at the fast food place, it wouldn't matter. An yes, I probably got lucky a few times, that's why I try to spread it around.

  2. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    Which is not what I was saying. Young adults are an example of that group, not its entirety by any means.

    I'd like to see the numbers before I'd accept that it wouldn't work for this group. 45 Million is a lot of people.

    And again: not what I am saying. I'm saying that you can't use your personal experience as a proper representation of the entire US system.

    I don't know the impact of pre-existing conditions, I'd like to see some numbers though.

    A lot of people cannot find that work at any level: they can't find the work they need to feed their families. Debt problems throughout the US population compound this problem.
  3. Shoveler

    Shoveler Still Mildly Glowing

    Nov 8, 2007
    What I've found so far:

    "It has been estimated that nearly one-fifth of the uninsured population is able to afford insurance, almost one quarter is eligible for public coverage, and the remaining 56% need financial assistance (8.9% of all Americans).[9] An estimated 5 million of those without health insurance are considered "uninsurable" because of pre-existing conditions.[10] A recent study concluded that 15% of people shopping online for health insurance are considered "uninsurable" because of a pre-existing condition, or for being overweight. This label does not necessarily mean they can never get health insurance, but that they will not qualify for standard individual coverage. People with similar health status can be covered via employer-provided health insurance, Medicare, or Medicaid.[11]"

    Highlights from estimated 45 million:
    1. 20% can afford it, just don't want to pay

    2. 25% are eligible for Medicaid and the like

    3. 56% need finanical help to pay for insurance,
    roughly 25 million

    4. 5 million have pre-existing condition pre-cluding them from
    coverage they need

    Wikipedia, so it could be skewed one way or another. I'll look around a little more later.

    The 45 million number is determined wether or not they didn't have coverage at any time throughout the year. People that were without coverage for 1 day, 1 month and so on would be included in this number. Not sure how much that affects things either. I wonder what the number is of people whom were without coverage for the entire year was.

    For example: If you were on Medicaid, which has to be renewed every month, if you let it lapse for one month, you'd be included in this number as well. Which seems a little mis-leading.

  4. Kilus

    Kilus Not Australian Orderite

    May 3, 2003
    Wouldn't removing employers from health insurance reduce their burden per employee thus encouraging them to retain and hire more employees?
  5. Verd1234

    Verd1234 Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jan 16, 2009
    Just posting this to let y'all know but, for good or for bad, but the Obama Healthcare reform is essentially just eliminating bad insurance industry practices, forcing everyone to have insurance, and expanding Medicaid...

    I personally support it but it doesn't change much of Medicaid itself...
  6. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dogmeat

    Nov 22, 2009
    We have a choice here too like I said, we have a very strong private sector in health care, maybe one of the best in the world. Our right-wing government is trying to dismantle the public health care and push the country by force into a more private sector - oriented ways. But even they recognize that there is no point in breaking a system that works, meaning a good strong public health care.

    It's not just about health care, it's also about a high level in research in medicine that is needed and what I would say Finland has. I don't think everything should be privatized in a nation. We've had several examples of privatization-gone-awry in our nation.
  7. Shoveler

    Shoveler Still Mildly Glowing

    Nov 8, 2007
    The WHO has Finland ranked at 31st in the world, but that's from 2000, US was 37th, that's just best health care system. They had plenty of other stats I didn't look at completely. Couldn't find a more recent one yet.

    France was pretty consistanyly at the top. Impressive.

    EDIT: France was also the leader in preventable deaths. Ouch.

  8. Ravager69

    Ravager69 Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Dec 21, 2007

    Dude, your philosophy boils down to "If there ain't enough food to feed people in our country, kill and eat the poor folks. Problem solved." Ain't no way in hell this is right. Blame the doctors for not caring to know any better, not the old people who have supported fear of death every time something happens to them.
  9. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dogmeat

    Nov 22, 2009
    Got a link about that, couldn't find any 'ranking board' from WHO's pages.

    France has done pretty well considering that they're not a hugely rich nation and that they have a pretty big population.
  10. Shoveler

    Shoveler Still Mildly Glowing

    Nov 8, 2007
  11. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dogmeat

    Nov 22, 2009
    Looks a bit bogus to me, life expectancy for Finnish men at under 70 years?

    Here's a bit more accurate info about life expectancy, links at the bottom of the page.

    Edit. Oh wait, it's "Healthy life expectancy". Meaning the full life time minus the average sickness time. Still a bit sceptical of those stats, Spain that high up? And Italy at number 2?

    I think it's a good idea to measure health care systems of different countries but those stats are a decade old and I'm not quite sure about the methodology behind it.
  12. Shoveler

    Shoveler Still Mildly Glowing

    Nov 8, 2007
    Actually it mostly reinforces it, Spain and Italy are still pretty high up on your list as well. In ten years stats probably change some, but probably not a whole lot.

  13. MutantScalper

    MutantScalper Dogmeat

    Nov 22, 2009
    It might actually be quite different.

    This is the data behind the stats in your link, right?

    So what does for example the first bracket mean, under "Attainment of goals", "Health", "Level (DALE)"? Would help if the methodology would be explained a bit more detailed.
  14. UniversalWolf

    UniversalWolf eaten by a grue.

    Aug 28, 2005
    That's totally wrong, and what's happening right now in the real world proves it. Everything the critics of Obamacare said about it is coming true. I personally know quite a few people who have already lost their low-cost, private health insurance that they shopped around for and liked, and the ones who are not losing their insurance are seeing huge premium increases. There will be fewer doctors and millions more people getting "free" health care, which will inevitably decrease quality and lead to rationing. Assuming it hold up in court (which I doubt) the IRS will soon be monitoring everyone to make sure they buy the correct amount of insurance as prescribed by the government (maybe you don't care that the IRS will be monitoring you). And it's going to push the U.S. even deeper into debt on top of everything.

    The philosophy of Obamacare is this: instead of 85% of the population getting really good heathcare, 90% will get mediocre health care.
  15. Ghoullove

    Ghoullove Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Apr 16, 2006
    The OP is inaccurate when he says healthcare in Canada is free. I am Canadian and I have paid income tax for over 20 years toward healthcare, enough to choke a fucking moose (or elk for you euros). There are a lot of things not covered under the healthcare system like drugs, hospital stays, ambulance rides and being shaved by nurses,

    As for the elderly, sorry to break it to you bud, but they outnumber young people. Get used to them being around.

    These other asses on this forum going on about cutting of old people's healthcare at a certain age or eating them should be profoundly urinated on and then smeared with some freshly shaven Ghoullove hair.

    p.s. I had a great sex session with a black woman on Saturday night. She said I was really white.
  16. SimpleMinded

    SimpleMinded Vault Fossil

    Jun 17, 2003

    So you'd like to go back to an older system, where if you're badly hurt or contract an illness as a child, you should be SOL for the rest of your life once your coverage under your parents insurance runs out?

    Or you'd like to keep the system where your health insurance company can cancel your insurance coverage after you've received an operation they approved of, leaving you with the bill?

    And you say "Obamacare" is the reason premiums are going up? Yet they'd gone up 131% in the last ten years before "Obamacare" even took effect. link

    Is it perfect? No. So let's take it as the first step and work to improve upon it, not whine about how it's destroying an already broken system.
  17. Cimmerian Nights

    Cimmerian Nights So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2004
  18. Dragula

    Dragula Stormtrooper oTO Orderite

    Nov 6, 2008
    Old people are lower priority, at least in Sweden.
  19. SimpleMinded

    SimpleMinded Vault Fossil

    Jun 17, 2003
  20. Cimmerian Nights

    Cimmerian Nights So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2004
    Somehow I don't feel like a winner though. :cry: I don't have Anthem, but I don't see why my HMO won't follow suit to a certain degree in the same climate.

    I'm just a working man, I get screwed by insurance companies or I get screwed by the gov't. Or both. What's the difference?

    I liked the idea of HSAs which I had at my last job. They need to offer more progressive plans like this if they want to get everybody on board. People obviously have different needs.