Balancing Fallout 2?

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Blackened, Jul 4, 2008.

  1. Blackened

    Blackened I should set a cutom tite

    598
    Jun 29, 2008
    It is obvious that Fallout 2 is not balanced...
    Some questions:

    Is there a mod in Fallout 2 that makes it balanced?

    Is it possible to make changes to S.P.E.C.I.A.L. with some editor?
    Is it possible to change perks with editor(CHANGE not ADD)?


    After someone answer me these questions I'll post my ideas and such.
     
  2. Glovz

    Glovz Vault Dweller
    Modder

    735
    Sep 16, 2005
    What sort of "balance" are you refering to or looking for?
     
  3. Blackened

    Blackened I should set a cutom tite

    598
    Jun 29, 2008
    Well, some things are stronger than other - for example the Small Guns skill is much better than Throwing, Energy Weapons or Big Guns.

    And there are almost useless perks like Snakeater, Adrenaline Rush and much more.

    Also, it's always worth playing with IN 8-9, Gifted and Fast Shot.

    If you look at Character Design of The Nearly Ultimate Fallout 2 Guide by Per ( http://user.tninet.se/~jyg699a/fallout2.html ) you should see clear examples of what am I talking about.


    I suggest making a mod that balances the game so that there are several "best ways of playing the game", not just one or two.

    I have some great Fallout-style ideas.

    Still, can anyone tell me if there is any editor that allows me to modify the function of SPECIAL and the perks?
     
  4. Glovz

    Glovz Vault Dweller
    Modder

    735
    Sep 16, 2005
    Killap's RP mod/expansion and UP mod/patch try to do some of what you are talking about as well mods like my own Combat Overhaul mod.

    But everyone's idea of what balanced is differs and variety has to be maintained when trying to address balance. Remember as well that the way you set up your character from the start and as you progress through the game is not always meant to make things "better", the option or ability is there to also make things more unbalanced/challenging for yourself. This is one of the main governing themes in an open rpg like Fallout, the choice to define your character in ways that will have different outcomes/consquences throughout the game.
     
  5. Morticia

    Morticia Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    372
    Mar 9, 2008
    Team X tried to balance the game a bit better also. It never seems to work so this is a good thread for people to post ideas and suggestions about.

    My thoughts may be the same as Blackened's: Play about half way and it is a struggle. Then suddenly you are on top and overpowering almost anything.

    I say it's the trip to NCR. Get there and you can get the better weapons.

    The trip is supposed to be difficult, meeting powerful Raiders!

    Get past them and suddenly the tables turn.

    I get that .223 pistol and I am the Cat! Finesse and More/better criticals pay off and I can drop any enemy that gets in my way.

    THAT is how the game balance shifts, dramatically.
     
  6. Blackened

    Blackened I should set a cutom tite

    598
    Jun 29, 2008
    Here are some suggestions:

    About throwing: It obviously can be balanced just by increasing the damage of the current throwing weapons towards the other(so decreasing the all other should do it still).

    About Energy Weapons: After you complete the Temple of Trials, the Elder should give you some Energy Weapon that is slightly weaker than the other weapons you get - "once belonged to the original Vault dweller". You will be able to upgrade it throught the game - firstly it will be old, rusty, partly broken and there will be some NPCs that make upgrades on it - the first upgrade could be done by Vic, the second - by Valerie/Skeeter, the third - Algernon and the fourth - somewhere in San Francisco.

    Its ammo could be some kind of cell battery that provides certain amount of ammo every day. Until the third upgrade it should be weaker than the Small Guns you get. At the end of the game this should be the best weapon(except Big Guns - see below).

    About Big Guns - just increase the numbers so that they will be the best weapons for endgame. Or maybe start with upgradeable Big Gun and increase the damage of Energy Weapons.
     
  7. JOG

    JOG First time out of the vault

    36
    Dec 17, 2007
    Well, Magnus' Weapon Mod originally started as Magnus' take on rebalancing the Throwing skill.


    And here is where "balance" becomes subjective.

    Arroyo, Klamath, Den, Modoc are a low tech scenario where ammo is expensive, pre-war weapons are rare, and melee and throwing weapons are good alternative even in vanilla game. This part of the game is perfectly balanced, IMO. Then comes Vault City, and that great SMG you just obtained, becomes nothing but a bauble worth 1000$ in bartering.

    Somewhere after this point you come to new Reno and get a new kind of weapon. The problem isn't that you haven't invested skill points in energy weapons as yet, the problem is that Laser Pistols are too weak compared to the firearms you already have at this point. That was the next thing Magnus' mod covered.

    I think getting energy weapons not until New Reno is a good idea, maybe you could get a larger boost when you get your laser pistol from the Salvatores , even half of your small weapons skill seems okay. Giving the player an energy weapon right at the beginning of the game isn't about balancing, it's about not "wasting" skill points for small weapons.



    As for perks, Timeslip's sfall (included in RP) allows you to change perks (prerequisites for all perks and effects for those that just give a skill-bonus) either by script or simply by using the Perks.ini file. You can also use sfall's global script function to add additional features to the perks (see "Extra Traits" thread)

    These global scripts are also perfect for modifying the derived stats, like say, making sequence be PE+AG instead of 2*PE.
     
  8. Glowing Ghouls

    Glowing Ghouls First time out of the vault

    66
    Jul 5, 2008
    The best way to balance it would be to take it as three types of weapons.

    1- Stuff that requires ammo, bullets, rockets, etc etc.

    2- Energy weapons

    3- Remaning weapons.



    type 1- Assign a base damage ammount to all ammo of this type. From there, each weapon that uses the ammo can alter the damage by up to five points with at most a few exceptions (sawed off shotgun would offer greater damage, but have shitty range for example)

    Type 2- Make energy weapons (flamers would count as such for this case) fit in the balance better. They dont do that much more damage, but can bypass armor better.

    Type 3- Grenades, mele weapons anything else, gets in here and gets balanced based on how such a device would compare to the real world guns (a known quantity) in damage. Grenades would get a substantil boost (plasma even more so) while mele weapons are only useful against light or no armor, aside from knockdown values (cause lets face it, Im wearing power armor, and you hit me with a sledge hammer, you wont do much more than knock me down and slightly rattle me with the fall, where if Im wearing a leather jacket its still gona fucking hurt)

    It would also require a total re-balancing of armors too, or even of damage resistences prehaps. If possible, add new resistence types. If not, then combine laser/plasma into energy resistence, and use the now empty slot for something else, impact resistence prehaps (AKA, how well it defends from something hiting you hard, such as a sledge hammer for example).

    Past that, play around with amo types. Holo points= great against unarmored targets, but if the target is hardend (metal armor on up) they do a lot less cause they deform too easily. jacketed holo points can penetrate armor much easier, but still dont do that well against harder armor. fulll metal jacketed rounds would have lower base damage, but be much more effective against armor. For larger type rounds, allow for things like armor peircing rounds and other types. For shotgun's, take one of the few things that FOTactics did right and add in multiple types of shells. Slugs have high knockdown and armor peirce. Standard shot is less effective against armor like hollow points, but vert effective against unarmored/lightly targets, flechettes would be VERY effective against soft targets. Also, if possible re-adjust how shotguns work so as to simulate firing a spread of shot. If the shell holds X ammount of balls, then increase the ammo capacity of the weapon by that ammount, and make the defualt single shot a burst so that it spreads out more and can hit more than one target. Then just increase the ammo expendeture for the real burst effect in the case of automatic shotguns.

    Also, it'd be cool (and add to the RP options) if someone made more ammo types for the needler pistol.

    A poison round, does dammage over time.
    Sedative round, can KO a target (and add options allowing for capture, robbery, or even slavery) and whatever drugs/chems you can think of.

    Ditto for regular guns. Rubber bullets could be used by some towns police forces in cases of civil unrest (id doable, code it so using that type of ammo doesnt count as a lethal attack, but rather makes people even more likley to flee if its a more cowardley characther, plus would add options such as dispersing a bar fight, spray it down with rubber bulets, they get the picture, stop.)

    The KEY tho is to make most regular pistols equal, based on type of round, and the same for rifles. Then suddenly a 10mm pistol is almost as useful as a 44magnum instead of a joke in comparison.

    Shotguns, if it is possible to use the method I mentioned above to make them simulate firing shot, should have their range extended a bit, but should be re-designed to spread out a by a VERY great deal so that at max range, you could potentely hit people over a 10ish hex area. (which means you have to consider how to use them in populated areas).

    heavy weapons, The rocket launcher should be increased by a large ammount in damage. Lets face it, unless you're in power armor or lvl99, its going to kill you with a direct hit. The armor peircing one should only effect a 1-2 hex radius around the impact point, the explosive round should affect the surrounding 3-5 hexes.

    heavy automatic weapons shouldnt be nerfec like they are, if I remember rite ( dont feel like looking it up) their base damage per round hit is lower than other small guns that use the same round, that should be changed. It will make the miniguns much more lethal (all automatics really) and require some use of tactics, or bugging out.

    Gauss weapons should be handled differntly, not sure exactly how but they should be among the most powerful single shot pistol/rifle's, and bypass a good % of armor as well. They should also have a high knockdown chance too.

    Grenades should do 100+ points of damage, and affect a decent area, 4-6 hexes
    Plasma grenades 20-30 points more than that, and affect a similar area.

    in essence, if the gun types use the same ammo the damage output should be very close if not identical, this makes some guns stronger and some weaker, but actualy balanes them for more fun casue you get to pick a weapon more for roleplay reasons w/o being penalized .