Bethesda's Fan Interview #2

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by Sander, Jul 7, 2008.

  1. Glowing Ghouls

    Glowing Ghouls First time out of the vault

    66
    Jul 5, 2008
    Whatever happend to a RPG that was a lot like a choose your own adventure childrens book ?

    Whereas bethesdas games are a lot more like 'heres our adventure, feel free to pick un-important details to flesh out the weak story'
     
  2. Anani Masu

    Anani Masu Still Mildly Glowing

    226
    May 16, 2008
    The older Fallouts had effectively invincible quest characters too. Either sitting in a literally invincible robo command chair/toilet and never moving until the game was over or simply booting you directly to a game over if you killed em. It's simply a matter of how many alternates can you plan for before the amount of content it requires becomes impratical. I seem to recall playing a really awesome game a long time ago that literally planned for every possible contingency but only lasted for 3 hours. I'll see if I can't remember what it was.
     
  3. DoktorVivi

    DoktorVivi First time out of the vault

    63
    May 31, 2008
  4. Black

    Black Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 21, 2007
    Fallout 1 and 2 weren't perfect. Arcanum already had no immortal npcs. That's evolution.
     
  5. Kyuu

    Kyuu Insert Awesome Title Here

    Jul 19, 2007
    Uh... it's not about offering incentive. It's about the fact that if you point a gun at a kid and shoot him between the eyes, dying is a rather more believable response than the kid screaming and running off while the adults get up and attempt to kill you for daring to shoot at their immortal children. Getting a bad reputation and a bounty on your head (as you did in the Fallouts) is also a sensible consequence, and not an "incentive" (unless you're playing an "evil" character of course).
    It worked well? Really? So the system where I could sneak up to a plot-essential NPC, stealth kill her while in the middle of supper with 5 others at the table and a guard nearby, have her slump over unconscious, then pick herself back up a little while later and continue on as though nothing unusual had happened (and apparently none of the others present or even her personal guard noticed anything odd either) is a system that worked well?

    I think it's safe to say Bethesda has... "different" standards than most lucid people.
    Uh huh. I put on mechanic's coveralls and suddenly it comes to me how to fix that broken power generator! And when I put on a "merchant's outfit" (merchants in a post-apocalyptic environment have uniforms?) I suddenly know secrets to wheedle people for more money? You're joking right? The tools in Fallout that helped out your Repair skill at least made sense...
    Wow. I can't believe he could actually say that without realizing just what a crap system that is.
    Oh mother of god... :seriouslyno:
    Are you serious? This is some of the most brain dead reasoning I have ever seen.
    Here's a clue: they weren't perks, they were traits! No perks were ever relegated to only being chosen at the start. Duh!
    I guess when retards debate among themselves, not much gets accomplished (explains politics too). And nice attempt at a cop-out with the "oh you people just won't understand our brilliant reasoning."
    I just can't comprehend how brain-dead you or your target audience has to be to find the concept confusing. You only get a perk every three levels because that's how the perk system works. It makes picking perks meaningful instead of just another stat you barely give any consideration. In the original Fallouts I often sat for a while considering which perk I wanted (if I hadn't thought out my perk progression in advance of course).

    Also, the ghoul in the bar screenshot looks hideous. And I don't mean in the way a ghoul should look hideous. I mean the whole look of him is just poorly done.

    Edit: DoktorVivi, your picture is way too big and is kinda breaking the borders. I don't like having to scroll horizontally to read posts.

    Edit2: Damn, Per is fast.
     
  6. Bodybag

    Bodybag Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    324
    Mar 7, 2008
    Are you saying you don't feel more mechanically inlcined when you're wearing coveralls? I know it's tempting to spin this into fantasy derision, but to me it's honestly just video-gamey. I wouldn't say it's any more outlandish than putting on a leather jacket and fooling some bloodthirsty goon into believing you're his father's ghost, for example.

    If there were indeed such things as "wrong perks" in Fallout then it sounds like Fallout 3 will have even more ways to "fuck up your character." I agree that there should be some continuance of the original's advantage/disadvantage system, because it's like GURPS and GURPS got that totally right, but I don't blame them for moving away from the idea of having to reroll your character, while simultaneously offering additional incentive for you to want to replay the whole thing when your done. Nobody's making the Diablo 3 parallel here? Man THAT tempest died quickly :)

    Even I would really have to play it myself before being convinced, though.
     
  7. Ausir

    Ausir Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 20, 2003
    In that regard, yes. But Arcanum still had major flaws Fallout didn't.
     
  8. hailtotheking

    hailtotheking First time out of the vault

    33
    Jun 21, 2008
    I couldn´t agree more! My point was exactly that what the game-industry need is people of the Kurosawa and Herzog caliber, and of course working within the specific framework of VG´s you describe so very well. Though I do tend to get very similar feelings of immersion/getting sucked in whether it is a really good film or VG. What I´m trying to say is that great talent is needed to get this effect, but of course it must be within the right framework. I wouldn´t put it so much as to the game-industry needing to "grow up" as is sometimes said, I believe it´s more a question of attracting competent and visionary people.

    And to Miyamoto having talent, yes of course. But when it comes to seeing through someting visionary and groundbreaking/revolutionary I think he´s more the exception than the the rule for this industry.
     
  9. Myryad

    Myryad First time out of the vault

    43
    Jun 16, 2008
    Well here's my opinion over the several points stated on the interview:

    Nice, and what happens if I kill the NPC's friendly to child? what will be the appropriate response then? some kind of damage absorving skin that suddenly every child earned due to radiation? :roll:

    As I said before, I seem to recall a couple of games where you could complete the main quest and still kill every single npc (except for the overseer, thanks Ausir :)), I think they were named... oh yes, fallout 1 and 2.

    Finally something good, at least not every ghoul and super mutant is a retarded killer!

    Deeper than in Fallout? I'm going to love to see that :roll:

    I hope that by persuade they don't mean the persuading minigame like in Oblivion...

    Nice, now we're not even sure if the game can be modded... :?

    Here we go again! :roll:

    Wow... I'm glad Bethesda already said that this wasn't oblivion with guns, or I'd be extremly worried and crying in a corner right now!

    And yet, here we go again! :roll:

    Well this doesn't sound too bad, yet I think they were in the right direction and then screwed up... I mean, if a bullet hits me it's the same if it comes from the best or worst rifle in terms of aim, as a bullet is always a bullet. However, if they had kept the first idea, with the bullet spread and rate of fire, it would be way better. I just hope that weapons dont start needing to be repaired after shooting 4 or 5 rounds..

    Excuse me? :shock:

    What?! "It was confusing people why they couldn't do it every level"?! are you kidding me?! No one was confused! It was a way to keep the game ballanced and to not make it too easy, something that you don't seem to understand, as you showed us in oblivion where you could kill everything with only level one!!
    Fallout gives you an already perfectly balanced leveling system, and you completely changed it to keep it balanced?? That doesn't make any sense!! :crazy:

    Well a few good news again. I'm quite happy in being able to create my own character :)

    Wow, and again, here we go again!! I'm starting to be uncertain about the not being oblivion with guns thing...

    Why can't we have as many followers as we want?

    Well no one's asking for a direct continuation, but both fallout 1 and 2 had something to do with eachother...

    Yet again! And Bethesda still says that this isn't oblivion with guns?

    Well let's end this with some good news, at least this shows a bit of improvement in the fighting system.

    I know this might be a bit long, but I tried to include every aspect of the interview here. Thanks for reading, please tell me what you think :)
     
  10. Literacy_Hooligan

    Literacy_Hooligan First time out of the vault

    92
    Jan 25, 2005
    Heh... the main difference perhaps is that earlier Fallouts where made like computer GURPS systems, which was always nice to play even on the table.
    Fallout 3 is no computer - GURPS project. Sometimes D&D... but.... all in all it's Action-Thriller FPS with RPG elements. Just like oblivion.

    And now for a singalong:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_hlWl1PKfo
     
  11. RobOverall

    RobOverall First time out of the vault

    21
    Mar 19, 2008
    I like the bar shot.

    Also looks like the pirate is eating an iguana-on-a-stick.

    Also think that the gun in the second shot is the russian machine gun used in call of duty 2. (cant remember the name)

    Edit: here --> http://www.frenchparadise.net/modules/Page/html/images/ppsh_side_small.jpg

    Modified to fit the "rifle" pose of the player model.

    Edit part 2: then again there are shotgun shells coming out of it.
     
  12. Black

    Black Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 21, 2007
    That's why I was talking about immortal npcs, not about something else! God! Go back to your translation and stop nitpicking.
     
  13. Ausir

    Ausir Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 20, 2003
    You also can't kill or even attack Horrigan when you first meet him.

    Or as many as our Charisma allows, like in FO2?
     
  14. Myryad

    Myryad First time out of the vault

    43
    Jun 16, 2008
    yes, but you can in the end, and when you first see him he'd be way too powerful anyway to be killed. When bethesda talks about immortal characters they really mean it, you can never kill them, as oblivion showed us.
     
  15. Ausir

    Ausir Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 20, 2003
    But still, wouldn't it make sense if the player were able to at least try to attack Horrigan?
     
  16. Myryad

    Myryad First time out of the vault

    43
    Jun 16, 2008
    Yeah, it would hehe :) but still, I prefer to, as in fallout, see him in a "cutscene" than in real time and to be able to attack, and yet when he reached 0 health points he'd just faint
     
  17. Seymour the spore plant

    Seymour the spore plant Still Mildly Glowing

    258
    Mar 5, 2008
    Oh, but it is, by far. Which would you say requires a greater suspension of disbelief, wearing clothes to actually increase your ability on some field of knowledge or to fool a character who might himself be stupid, half-blind or whatever?

    It is indeed a video-game thing, but one that simply does not fit the setting Bethesda has said time and again they are keeping intact, hence they get "fantasy derision". Hardly surprising, really.

    Not necessarily, since you can choose 20 of them. My point was that when they increased the number of perks that you get to pick, they also necessarily diluted their importance.
     
  18. Xenophile

    Xenophile It Wandered In From the Wastes

    159
    Oct 18, 2007
    Yeah... but fallout "traits" was ultimately a bastardization of the original GURPS traits. In gurps they made more sense.. you had a total number of points to use on a character and traits had a positive or negative point value. So you could choose to be have a disability and use the points you gain towards a skill or a stat.

    In fallout I think because they moved from the GURPS system and simplified charater creation into the more simple SPECIAL system, they didn't have a "point pool" persay.. so they ended up making traits "value nuetral", and while that was interesting in the tradeoffs, it really lost alot of utility. In GURPS they tended to make character that were more realistic, that had weaknesses and felt more realistic. In fallout it really was mostly a waste.
     
  19. gc051360

    gc051360 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    117
    Mar 12, 2007
    Yes it would.

    But I would have hoped Bethesda could improve on that type of thing. Instead, they've gone backwards.

    I mean. Think about it. They've made nukes, a viable weapon. You can nuke someone.....and they don't die.
     
  20. Bodybag

    Bodybag Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    324
    Mar 7, 2008
    Oh well. Incidentally, I feel more mechancially inclined in coveralls.

    No, not not necessarily. If they let you pick all 100 or whatever in one playthrough, then yes, but the man clearly said you'd have to play it at least 5 times to see them all. I guess it boils down to how differently each perk affects your character; if there's like a bunch of "samey" perks I might change my mind, but I don't see any inherent drawback from this news.