Christianity Stories

[SimpleMinded]

Hey, I've always been curious to ask someone about this but never knew where to go. Finally, I've decided to make this the place of my question . I've seen a lot of movies talk about a war between the angels that resulted in all the fallen angels and what not and beyond that, I really don't know. I've seen it a lot before but if need be for a specific citation, Dogma talks a lot about this.

Another item of interest is the character of Lilith. I first caught a hold of the name in Vampire: Bloodlines when they talk about her being the founder of all Vampires or something. I looked her up online and it said she was the first wife of Adam according to some mythological stories starting with the Alphabet of Ben Sira. I looked up this book and it sounded quite interesting but could not find anywhere that actually had this book.

Does anyone know the origins of these stories and if there are any references to them within the bible or other accepted holy books (even outside of christianity)? Does anyone have any mythological stories they really like?

 

[Jebus]

I've seen a lot of movies talk about a war between the angels that resulted in all the fallen angels and what not and beyond that, I really don't know. I've seen it a lot before but if need be for a specific citation, Dogma talks a lot about this.

I'd suggest reading 'Paradise Lost' by John Milton. It's an epic work that gives the full narrative of the battle between Lucifer and the Angels loyal to God, written in verses. It's a fun read, really.
Joost Van den Vondel also made a beautiful play about it; but since it's in Dutch it probably won't help you much.

Another item of interest is the character of Lilith. I first caught a hold of the name in Vampire: Bloodlines when they talk about her being the founder of all Vampires or something. I looked her up online and it said she was the first wife of Adam according to some mythological stories starting with the Alphabet of Ben Sira. I looked up this book and it sounded quite interesting but could not find anywhere that actually had this book.

Lilith was actually the Assyrian (mesopotamia, 1300-600 BC - I can't believe I actually know this by heart) storm godess. She later became some sort of a vampire-like nightdemon in Jewish mythology. I think Goethe talks about her in Faust...



There you go. Cramming is apparently going well.

 

[Bradylama]

I'd suggest reading 'Paradise Lost' by John Milton. It's an epic work that gives the full narrative of the battle between Lucifer and the Angels loyal to God, written in verses.

Yes, but 'Paradise Lost' was exactly that, an epic poem. Something that shouldn't be considered official canon. Particularly since Lucifer is portrayed as a tragic hero.

 

[WarMonger]

in the christian faith, Lilith was the first woman, however she was not made with part of Adam, and eventually didnt want anything to do with Adam. Needless to say, this pissed off god and he sent her off to hell, opting to just create a new one instead of fixing the first.

dont really remember where i learned about her, seeing as i have never read paradise lost, and dont remember her being in the bible.... oh well.

 

[John Uskglass]

I'd suggest reading 'Paradise Lost' by John Milton. It's an epic work that gives the full narrative of the battle between Lucifer and the Angels loyal to God, written in verses. It's a fun read, really.
Joost Van den Vondel also made a beautiful play about it; but since it's in Dutch it probably won't help you much.



Lilith was actually the Assyrian (mesopotamia, 1300-600 BC - I can't believe I actually know this by heart) storm godess. She later became some sort of a vampire-like nightdemon in Jewish mythology. I think Goethe talks about her in Faust...



There you go. Cramming is apparently going well.

Shit Jebus, I'm impressed.

Lilith is a Jewish figure, she's not in the Christian Old Testement. She was a corruption of the Assyrian god Lamatsu, one of those females-threaten-our-society figures similar to Pandora. The Christain Eve kind of took over her role with the advent of the idea of Original (sp? my least favorite word in the world)
I have to admit, I know half of this because of V:TM:B though, and the other half from a Unitarian friend I had

in the christian faith, Lilith was the first woman, however she was not made with part of Adam, and eventually didnt want anything to do with Adam. Needless to say, this pissed off god and he sent her off to hell, opting to just create a new one instead of fixing the first.
l.

Uh. Dude. 3 Billion members of an Abrahamic faith, and the Secularists don't know the name of the first women any more

EVE was the first woman, created from the rib of Adam. She is somewhat of a negative figure in traditional Christanity, but Pomoianity generally does'nt have a negative view of her, and most serious or talented theologians see Eve as the perfection of human, as she was created from flesh rather then mud.

 

[SimpleMinded]

in the christian faith, Lilith was the first woman, however she was not made with part of Adam, and eventually didnt want anything to do with Adam. Needless to say, this pissed off god and he sent her off to hell, opting to just create a new one instead of fixing the first.
l.

Uh. Dude. 3 Billion members of an Abrahamic faith, and the Secularists don't know the name of the first women any more

EVE was the first woman, created from the rib of Adam. She is somewhat of a negative figure in traditional Christanity, but Pomoianity generally does'nt have a negative view of her, and most serious or talented theologians see Eve as the perfection of human, as she was created from flesh rather then mud.

Most of the sites I've read have supported his claims to Lilith being the first woman according to the Jewish book that was written. Its not stated in the bible so it might not be actual canon, but its not like he actually made a mistake or anything. Does anyone know any other books to read about these in, I'm becoming increasingly more interested. Both fiction and nonfiction are welcomed. I'd love to see a scholarly report on who Lilith is supposed to be.

And is Paradise Lost good? I tried reading it and got the fretful impression it was a VERY difficult read and said "to hell with this, not reading difficult stuff for fun ." Might be willing to pick it up tohough if you suggest it.

 

[Per]

In Neil Gaiman's The Sandman Eve was the third woman, Lilith having been the first. The second was made while Adam watched, so he was all "eww, gross" and it didn't work out. Knowing Gaiman, that bit is probably from:

1. Obscure Jewish tradition,
2. James Branch Cabell, or
3. A little ideas shop in Bognor Regis.

 

[Jebus]

I found this page about Lilith, and it's actually quite good. It's in Dutch, though, but there seem to be 183 Lilith-related links at the bottom.

Note though: the work of art at the top IS NOT Lilith. This is obviously a mistake by the author. It's the Babylonian fertility godess Inanna-Ishtar, and the clay table it from somewhere between 2000-1700 BC.

That's about all I know by heart, so I'll quote my History of Art textbook for the rest:

Babylonian Art

The late third and the early second millennium BC was a time of turmoil in mesopotamia. It gave rise to the city-states of Isin and Larsa, which rivaled Ur. Central power collapsed about 2025 BC, when the governor of Isin refused to send aid to Ur during a famine. In 2004 (BC, obviously - me) Sumer fell to the Elamites from the East; a century later the Amorites from the Northwest conquered several cities. As we might expect, the art and architecture that have come down to us from this period are modest.
Sculpture consists for the most part of small terra-cotta reliefs. Among them is a cutl statue of remarkable quality (fig 3-15, 2025-1763BC - the statue that's in the link). The sculpture is modeled so deeply as to be nearly in the round, lending it a monumentality that belies the modest size. Who can this winged creature with taloned feet be? She is Inanna-Ishtar, whose emblem is the lion. On of the most widely worshipped of all Mesopotamian deities, she unites the Sumerian godess of fertility with the winged Semitic godess of war and hunting. The four-horned headdress is a sign of divinity. The sculpture's voluptuous nudity is characteristic of Ishtar in her guise as the godess of love, idinetified with the planet Venus. Missing however, are Ishtar's key attributes: weapons in her hands as well as sprouting from her shoulders. Instead, she bears the rod and ring of kingship, which she brought with her into the underworld for het consort Tammuz's return.
During Ishtar's descent, the godess of death strips her of all her clothing, which is eventually returned to her, and she emerges transformed. Ishtar thus is also a godess of death and resurrection. This aspect is denoted by the owl, which also establishes her as Kilili, the forerunner of the Assyrian storm godess Lilitu an dthe Semetic demon Lilith. such a mingling of identities is typical of Sumerian religion after Sargon. Yet the image, not seen before in Mesopotamian art, remains unique, and is never found again.

So there you have it: Lilith is actually based on an ancient Babylonian godess of Love, who sacrificed herself to release Tammuz, who I guess was her lover. She then resurrected, and became godess of death and resurrection. I guess that made the way for the Assyrian vampire-like 'storm demon' (Although my other textbook says it's actually a 'wind-demon', because she could move like the wind) who has to drink the blood of babies to survive, and eventually into the Hebrew vampire of Lilith.

And teh mistary is solved!


*EDIT* If you want to got the bottom of this, here's all the read you'll ever need.