Church of Atom in Far Harbor

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by Ragemage, Mar 4, 2016.

  1. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    I've mulled over Bethesda's choice of putting the Church of Atom in Far Harbor, which is in Maine, and I wanted to go over a few points as to why I think this is a terrible, terrible idea and maybe what they can do to redeem it.

    THE PROBLEMS:

    1. First of all, the Church of Atom still existing in FO4 completely invalidates one of the biggest player choices from FO3. "The Power of Atom", probably one of the most memorable (and to some, most stupid) quest in Fallout 3, allows you to essentially nuke their main HQ. It'd be the equivalent of someone setting off a dirty bomb in the Vatican City. It would pretty much fracture the religion in half, causing it to split up into splinter groups (think the Protestant Reformation as a real world example), and so forth. Yet none of that happens apparently, since in FO4 the Church of Atom is alive and well despite the player having the choice to wipe out their entire congregation. As a matter of fact, the Church of Atom DOES have a splinter group, the Holy Light Monastery, but you're able to completely wipe them out too. It just makes no sense for them to spread as far as Boston if their main HQ was destroyed so early into the religion's foundation. What this means is, canonically, Megaton was never destroyed, essentially railroading one of the biggest karma choices in the game.

    2. The Church of Atom barely has a foothold in Boston. They only really show up in 3 locations in the game, and in 2 of those locations they're hostile by default for no reason. Makes you wonder how they get new members when they attack everyone on sight? Regardless, the only location where they aren't hostile towards you is in the middle of a fucking nuclear crater (that's another rant for another time) and they're somehow magically protected from radiation despite the geiger counter spiking up to like 10 rads a second out there. But that's it, that one secret "chapel" is their only nonhostile location in the ENTIRE game. If that's literally their only plot of land in Boston where they can cultivate their religion, then how the fuck do they have, apparently, a church big enough in Maine to constitute them being a faction major enough to be mentioned in advertising?!

    HOW TO FIX THESE PROBLEMS:

    1. Don't have the Church of Atom in Maine be just one big group. Rather, have them be a bunch of split up groups, like the Holy Light Monastery but multiplied. Perhaps a group of nonhostile Church of Atom guys actually did make it to Maine, and started spreading their gospel, but because of how strange their belief system is people interpreted it wrong, leading to lots of splinter groups and factions all vying for the title of being Atom's true church. I don't know, just something to make it so it isn't just one big uniform church because that doesn't make any sense given how small their presence is in Boston alone.

    2. Perhaps, make it so in Maine there's an armament of nuclear warheads in an abandoned military base. These travelling missionaries come across this building and make it into their new headquarters after leaving Megaton. At the very least this would explain why there's no Church of Atom members in Boston hardly, it's because they all ventured north to see the new HQ of the Church. I think some big nuclear armament would be a great reason for them to stop and set up a "holy site". Hell, go all out with it, have them declare this spot the birthplace of Atom or some shit and make it into a pilgrimmage destination.

    3. Allow players to join the Church of Atom if they wish it, explain more of the Church's tenets, their belief system, and so forth. Really the only way to learn more in depth about the church even in Fallout 3 is to read Professor Cromwell's computer in his office. Hell, go all out, do something like the Temple in Morrowind! Make it so in order to join the Church of Atom the player must go on a pilgrimmage. Perhaps there are 3-7 sites where nukes were dropped in Maine, and in order to become a member you must bathe in the radiation of these sites. Once you have enough radiation in you and have spent enough time at the sites, they welcome you as one of their own, maybe open up a Barber there so you can get your head shaved, and you get your own set of robes. Something like that. Oh yeah, and probably just as important, make it so once you're a member, the hostile Church of Atom members back in Boston become nonhostile once you become a member.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2016
  2. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
    I want a cool new rad cannon in Far Harbor to blast enemies with. Would also be neat with a quest perk that makes you immune to radiation.

    [edit]

    Also, you really think Fallout 4 can be 'fixed' in any way? I mean, it's most likely far too late for any design changes. Whatever idea they have for the COA is most likely well into development. So what's the point about trying to talk about ways to fix it? Bethesda doesn't listen to ideas that are about logic, consistency and good writing.
     
  3. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    Pretty sure there already is a perk for that unfortunately. -_- Well, there's 2. One that makes you immune to radiation in water completely, and another one that not only makes you nearly immune to radiation but also makes feral ghouls friendly.

    Plus there's the Cabot House quest where if you side with Lorenzo he gives you a serum that not only makes you completely immune to radiation, but it also gives you 50 DT somehow, and not only that, it also makes you FUCKING IMMORTAL. Literally. Makes it so you never age. Ugh.
     
  4. RangerBoo

    RangerBoo Vault Fossil

    Jun 15, 2015
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    • [Like] [Like] x 3
  5. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    @Mr Fish No, I don't think the main game can be fixed in the slightest, I'm not advocating for that anymore. No, I just want the DLCs to be decent at this point. Stupidly putting my faith in Bethesda since I'd loved all their previous titles, I preordered FO4 and the Season Pass and now I'm stuck with them. So if I can't enjoy the base game I want to at least be able to get a tiny bit of pleasure out of the DLC.

    I mean, I don't care too much for Skyrim's base game anymore, but I really like Solsthiem in Dragonborn. That may just be nostalgia blinding me though considering Blood Moon from Morrowind is one of my favorite expansions ever.
     
  6. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
    Can't Season Passes be refunded?
     
  7. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    I didn't buy it on Steam, I bought it off Greenmangaming, which uses Steam keys. Since I already activated the key way back, there's no way to refund it since the key itself is useless now. It was 20 bucks instead of 30 on there, I thought I was getting a deal. Little did I know how much of a crapbomb Fallout 4 would be.
     
  8. Spacemunkey

    Spacemunkey Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 4, 2015
    Church of Assholes also appear at random spawn points which is most likely lazy innuendo about their numbers being more than what we see. I also won't discount them spreading like an STD in the DC wasteland, after all they are a religion.
     
  9. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    The thing is, it's a religion that really only relates to those near Megaton and/or people who have no idea how nuclear bombs work. They strictly worship the bomb in Megaton, they see it as a vestige of Atom's glory. It would make sense for the Church of Atom to spread IF there were CoA members outside the main church who watched Megaton go boom and saw it as a literal miracle/divine intervention and started spreading their gospel rapidly. Thing is though, the Church in Megaton is the only place with CoA members we see in the entire DC wasteland outside of the Holy Monastery which is like 2 inches away from Megaton and is made up of people that left Megaton. Plus they retconned the fact that we were allowed to nuke Megaton in the first place, which renders all that I just said moot. If they were planning for CoA to be a major faction later on, the easiest way to have fixed this is, during the events of Broken Steel, have Church of Atom missionaries spawn in major locations like Underworld and the Republic of Dave. But they didn't do that.
     
  10. Spacemunkey

    Spacemunkey Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 4, 2015
    Missionaries could have left for the Commonwealth long before our character stepped out of the vault and it just happened to catch on in the Commonwealth and spread. Personally I would actually enjoy some Jonestown style compound in Far Harbor where the NPC's keep offering you kool-aid, they would never go that dark, but it'd be cool if they did. I'll make my prediction right now, with the involvement of these morons there will be a nuke involved and a rehash of the Megaton quest. After that all the BGS Youtube channels will praise Bethesda for giving the player choices with real consequences.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 3
  11. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    Guess we'll know whenever the DLC comes out. I'm sure I'll make plenty of posts ranting about how stupid it is. I plan to cover each DLC in detail on here.
     
  12. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    It wouldn't have made sense for the CoA to spread no matter what; it's one thing to spread a religion, another thing to spread a cult which demands you bathe in irradiated, cancerous craters, really no matter what Bethesda says I refuse to believe that a large segment of the population would worship nuclear bombs as gods and eagerly await their own nuclear cleansing.
    Not to mention that the CoA is a cult which basically forces its followers to remove themselves from the gene pool, I imagine a lot of the CoA are sterile or otherwise terminally ill during the events of Fallout 3.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2016
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  13. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    They're just another faction to shooty shooty bang bang with your Freezing Flamer while you ride the deathclaw that you tamed in the other paid mod that is available.

    Interplay's slogan was "by gamers for gamers."

    Fallout 4's slogan is "by idiots for idiots."

    These people aren't interested in writing or RPGs, and they're simply incapable of writing any sort of coherent universe. The writers for Fallout 4 have undone all the great work the other people at Bethesda did in making a pretty beautiful game world to explore.

    Basically Bethesda made a pretty nice game world to explore, and then the writers took a dump in it. And I see no reason why that won't be the case for Far Harbor.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2016
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  14. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    I don't think this COA should exist in the first place, they're just a bunch of lunatics worshipping giant bombs for whatever reason.
    People left over and/or born after the Great War should fear what these things did to the world, ravaging the land instead of "Herp derp lets worship bombs because it's wacky". They could of created another faction that consisted of people trying to spread peace and jam biased opinions down the throats of other people's heads. Anything but this half baked faction that serves essentially no purpose.
     
  15. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish ...The pain of being dead...

    Sep 11, 2010
    Kinda described Mad Monks there and I like the Mad Monks.
     
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  16. Theinnerfish

    Theinnerfish Storytelling skeleton

    239
    Jul 25, 2015
    If i remember correctly CoA was founded soon after Great War.
     
  17. Tom Bishop

    Tom Bishop It Wandered In From the Wastes

    117
    Dec 12, 2015
    I wouldn't mind them existing if not for the fact that they really do seem to be immune to radiation. That's just...not right. Let them have their ridiculous beliefs, but bending the biological "rules" of the setting around to accommodate them is all wrong.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
  18. ZigzagPX4

    ZigzagPX4 The Swiftness of the Ranger

    Nov 22, 2015
    From what I've seen of Bethesda Softworks' recently published titles (Dishonored and Wolfenstein), they're quite a big fan of getting their developers to just make more of the same in a different setting (Knife of Dunwall and The Old Blood), so if that's any indication of how Far Harbor will go then I suppose it's already doomed.

    That said, I like the concept of "more of the same expansions" with slightly new twists, locations and characters, but with the aforementioned Softworks-published games I mentioned, they're actually fun and "more of the same" gives new environments to have that fun in. The last thing Fallout 4 needs is "more of the same".
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  19. Millim

    Millim The Big Straight Orderite

    Oct 13, 2010
    I gave up on Bethesda's Storytelling ages ago.
    I expected Fallout 4 to have poor writing, but they managed to go below my expectations, congrats Bethesda, that actually takes talent.
    On a DLC scale, Bethesda has usually done very good DLC. I know there was the whole thing with horse armour back with Oblivion, but I look past that, we had four games with good DLC from them (Morrowind, Oblivion for the most part, Fallout 3 and Skyrim, well for the most of that).
    But when Bethesda announced Fallout 4 DLC, you bet I was disappointed, this isn't Good Bethesda DLC, this is run of the mill AAA Garbage DLC. They essentially made two mods as DLC and a new area with factions from the base game, that's not even lazy. Even the sniffiest AAA Publishers give us something new with DLC.
    But, with Children of the Atom, I didn't mind them so much, I just see the faction in 4 as being different to the one in 3, or maybe the guy from 3 came from Boston to spread the word. I don't know, but they are two different types of group in my eyes.
    Still, making them hostile is just shit design choice and having humans be in the Glow was one of the worst plot holes I have ever seen. It made me cry knowing that somewhere out there, someone said that was okay. It's like Bethesda don't understand basic science let alone a Fallout game.

    What makes things worse, is that Bethesda could bring out really good games, they just need a better writer and someone to say "You know what, have the cool shit for the idiots, but also have the more subtle moments for the die hard fans"
    They could easily please both sets of fans, that's the beauty of an IP like Fallout, yet they waste their own talents by releasing filler market products. Fallout 4 to me doesn't seem to be there because Bethesda wanted to make a Fallout game, it's there because they felt like they had to, and they had to eventually release DLC for it eventually so....

    I went way too off topic but my point stands.
     
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  20. Ragemage

    Ragemage Wept for Zion

    Feb 20, 2016
    Where is this mentioned anywhere in the game? I've gone through all the dialogue with Cromwell and his wife, and I've read his computer, from the look of things he is the founder of this religion. There's no mention of it being around longer than a couple of decades. If you can find proof that it's from around the time of the Great War, show it to me and this will all make more sense.