Couple of questions regarding changeing Fallout videos

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by gustarballs1983, Apr 10, 2021.

  1. gustarballs1983

    gustarballs1983 Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Oct 28, 2009
    So now that my favourite video upscaling program got an update and now supports my GPU to do the job much better and whole lot faster.. I'm itched to upscale General fallout videos 1/2 and the ones from main mods.

    the problem is the output is in .mp4 (h264) and I don't know of any method to make that work inside Fallout2 engine.

    I know in general that sfall ppl generally have issues when certain formats other than .mve are to be played in Fallout2 engine. and .mve in general have a limit of 640x480 (and even majority of fallout1 videos for example are not even that). So I've decided to AI upscale all the videos that ain't 640x480 to that and convert them back to mve with a significant quality boost thanks to AI thained specifically in CGI images.

    However my problem comes when using avi2mve. although i reformated my video to .avi (mpeg1) avi2mve.exe refuses to convert the video saying that the input format is incompatible, and that i need to reformat the video.

    So does anyone out there know what is the correct .avi format for avi2mve.exe input? and perhaps can You recommend a program converter? (none of that online sh!t as god only knows what malware the video comes back bundled with)
    I mean I've tried to find a program that convrts to .avi nn general (not to mention to convert from .mp4 h264 to .avi) so far I've only found 'Bandicut' but mpeg1 is not supported codec for avi2mve.exe.


    EDIT: 12.04.2021
    So I've searched the forums for similar questions, and One guy hinted to use VirtualDub2 and color scheme "555le" whatever that means.
    Anyways VirtualDub2 does not have the option to change color scheme (as color scheme is hidden inside other options unilke VirtualDub-pre2) and on top of that the 555le is nowwhere to be found. I used VirtualDub1 with top most option for color scheme 16bit 555. However after conversion to uncompressed 16 bit 555 color scheme with VirtualDub, whenever I decide to use avi2mve.exe for conversion to.mve cmd prints out a message about color reduction and the output .mve file lools like sh!t. and that is regardless of the options i set old compression method normal or new, or whether with or without dithering.

    This topaz lab AI really outshines the .avi reconverted from .mve files, so i guess it's me that fucks up somwhere when trying to convert the videos back to .mve after the ai upscale. The upscale itself is not much, roughly by 150% from 432x320 to 640x480, as that's the max avi2mve can handle at the moment.

    So anyone that knows how .mve files are configured can enlighten me on the color scheme? how many bits the colors should have prior to conversion? and what is this '555le' color scheme?

    @NovaRain @Mr.Stalin @Lexx or anyone else?
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  2. burn

    burn Mildly Dipped

    Apr 22, 2012
    Doesn't sfall support playing avi natively? Like HQ music?
    As for VDub, try also VirtualDubMod.
  3. QuantumApprentice

    QuantumApprentice Still Mildly Glowing

    Feb 9, 2018
    I'm not sure what the video requirements are for playing one in sfall or even the original for that matter, but I do recommend ffmpeg for most converting needs. Open source, command line, super fast tool.
    It does have a higher than average learning curve though, so I'll happily help if you're interested.

    As far as conversion to Fallout, check Drobovik's archive in the Video Tools section, there might be a few different tools that would work better, plus some documentation that may be useful for you:

    Also, I know I've seen discussion on video conversions in the Yesterday mod thread, but I'm not sure how detailed they were or if they weren't about just getting sfall to play newer video types (which iirc I think they did, but I don't know where to look for the details).
  4. gustarballs1983

    gustarballs1983 Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Oct 28, 2009
    Ok I'm gonna give it a try..

    well the discussion started as *most* folks including me couldn't play in game movies provided by hexer in .mp4 h264 format ( due to unknown reasons as proper codecs and videoplayers installed on my system could easily do it in desktop)
    after several failed attempts to convert the videos to something else hexer decided to also revert back to fallout's native ".mve" format.

    The problem is .mve uses somewhat custom, 6bit VGA color scheme (duh as Fo1 *is* a MS-DOS game after all) . which is nowhere to be found among color schemes conversion, in modern day video converters.

    anyways conversion to .mve would be the best solution since it's fail proof, other formats may or may not work depending on the system specs (despite having AllowDshowMovies=1 i still can't play any besides .mve in Fallout2 engine and that takes under account GPUBlt= 0;1;or 2 (since my GPU can't handle 8bit or 16bit data only 32 and 64 bit)
    and custom movie name and extension set in sfall. sometimes it's a black screen and sometimes it's a blue screen (not to confuse it ain't BSOD) that ends whenever i press enter or mouse click or whatever usually interrupts the video playback in Fo2.

    However after avi2mve.exe finishes conversion from 16 bit or even 8 bit color scheme video, to 6bit VGA the end result is just damn ugly, so either avi2mve.exe does medicore job at the color conversion or simply converting anything by any program to 6bit VGA from a higher format turns the video to sh!t..

    So the question is Does anybody know a good way to convert any/or some specific video to "uncompressed 6bit VGA .avi"?

    EDIT: 15.04.2021 01:37AM

    So I've read on the wiki about RGB and VGA standards and I am crushed...
    the standard is in fact 18bit (6bit red 6bit green 6bit blue) VGA. and has color palletes dependand on the screen resolution.. as if some of you want to go through this than here you go:
    the color pallette has two color modes 16 colors and 256 colors.
    anything higher than what I list below can only be displayed in 16 colors:
    400×600 (50 Hz)
    360×480 (60 Hz)

    Fallout 2 ommited that with specific use of custom color palletes a.k.a .pal files that used only versions of specific cplors present in the movie (as most of them have only a few clors differing in shade)

    So since modern day monitors have a refresh rate of 60 Hz (360x480 limit of 256 colors), than the only hope of getting Fallout games with decent quality videos now lies in the hands of sfall developers, who could set some standards and possibly audio and video decoding in sfall, so that those who rely on video editing could in fact start to base their work on something. and as you know there are possibilitis to upscale CGI to make it look good.
    want proof?
    Here You go:

    just make sure to set higher resolution whie watching (it can go up to 4k, however my GPU goes berzerk when watching 4k so i usually sit at FullHD, no significant reason to have a resolution higher than that in video in Fallout 2 engine).

    So the question stands @NovaRain @Mr.Stalin @ "other sfall devs" R U going to do something about that video playback in sfall (like some form of unification perhaps?)
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
  5. QuantumApprentice

    QuantumApprentice Still Mildly Glowing

    Feb 9, 2018
    dang that's the nicest looking up-res I've seen of the original videos thanks for sharing!
    how did @hexer convert his videos? does he have some specific codec or piece of software?
  6. Lexx

    Lexx Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    Well damn, that cathedral video looks awesome.
  7. gustarballs1983

    gustarballs1983 Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Oct 28, 2009
    I'm afraid as for .mve tools for encoding there's only one released by Abel from TeamX. It's called avi2mve.exe
    BTW the videos originally hexer had, were a lot higher quality than the stuff that is currently in Fo:Y .MVEs.

    That's beeing due to VGA specification limitations. 6bit per color channel and different number of simultaneus colors depending on resolution. i.e. for 640x480 is limited to 16 simulataneus RGB colors determined in a pallete (.pal file all .mve files come bundled with, and to which .MVEs are tied like a sh!t to water closet). 256 colors are reserved for low res

    Hence why I propose here, that sfall comes with some form of decoding codecs on it's own, so that video encoding for Fo2engine beyond .mve would be somehow standarized and unified, so that it works on all systems and not depending on third party software which may or may not be present on all systems. Because of the fact that ppl get different results regarding Fo2 video playback other than .mve in sfall, ranging from working to not working, regardless of the file format and encoding codec used. We all need something beyond .MVEs that works regardles of system specs, so the only option is to embed something into sfall. It doesn't have to be all the various codecs around. just pick one and stick with it. as long as it suppotrs decent resolutions and 16bit (or higher) color scheme. even if it's only one and fully opensourced. Just slipstream it into sfall. When modders will have something consistent like use precisely *this* video format and *this* codec, and it will work for all systems, than modders will pull through this, and start providing higher quality videos. And I Can already tell you that video tools, AI, and decent system specs can work wonders in present days, and it doesnt take a rocket scientist and NSA supercomputers to provide decent video upscale quality, but the higher you go the better the results will be. However i can guarantee you...


    Don't look drooling on the quality of the video... I guarantee, that after conversion to .MVE the quality would turn to sh!t.

    that's because there are simply no video converters that convert to avi 18bit (6:6:6) video directly. the closest opton is 555 uncompressed video. It's the only thing that avi2mve.exe accepts as input from what I've tested so far, however the outcome is most of the times bad as fuck, and i haven't tried to lower the video resolution below 640x480 as that's the minimum upscale resolution as AI doesnt output anything lower than that. other than that it has not much sense to downscale the video to anything lower to be playd on 4k or FullHD in fullscreen resolution. the pixel spreading would be awful.
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  8. QuantumApprentice

    QuantumApprentice Still Mildly Glowing

    Feb 9, 2018
    ok, you make a good point, but until the time when the big guys make it compatible, I found this on the ffmpeg news page:
    October 15th, 2017, FFmpeg 3.4 "Cantor"
    FFmpeg 3.4 "Cantor", a new major release, is now available! Some of the highlights:
    additional frame format support for Interplay MVE movies
    think ffmpeg might have something already made that'll help with encoding?
    ...hmm...looks like ffmpeg can decode interplay MVE's only
     D..... = Decoding supported
     .E.... = Encoding supported
     ..V... = Video codec
     ..A... = Audio codec
     ..S... = Subtitle codec
     ...I.. = Intra frame-only codec
     ....L. = Lossy compression
     .....S = Lossless compression
    D.V.L. c93                  Interplay C93
    D.V.L. interplayvideo       Interplay MVE video
    D.AIL. interplay_dpcm       DPCM Interplay
    D.AIL. interplayacm         Interplay ACM
    Wonder how difficult it would be to reverse the process? or if it's a licensing issue?

    I also did an ffprobe of afailed.mve and got this:
    Input #0, ipmovie, from 'afailed.mve':
        Duration: N/A, start: 0.000000, bitrate: N/A
            Stream #0:0: Video: interplayvideo, pal8, 640x320, 1000k tbr, 1000k tbn, 1000k tbc
            Stream #0:1: Audio: interplay_dpcm, 22050 Hz, stereo, s16, 352 kb/s
    I'll keep perusing the ffmpeg stuff to see if there's more it can do :)
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
  9. gustarballs1983

    gustarballs1983 Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Oct 28, 2009
    Decoding doesn't help much mve2avi16 from mve tools on TEAMX site does the job quite well, so no need for ffmpeg..
    ffmpeg has a nasty side effect of requiering a reboot to launch any 32 bit application on a 64 bit system, as one of it's components specifically blocks that kind of action when using ffmpeg, so I'll think I'll pass on ffmpeg.

    Besides.. encoding an.mve wouldn't help much either as VGA standards must be met that is 18 bit video (6bit per color - RGB) and different number of colors ranging from 256 coolors in 320x240 to *16 colors* in 640x480 all with custom color palletes in ".pal" format. it's all on wikipedia link i posted somwhere above BTW. MVE is no exception to that. So as I said b4, *only* "cough" standarized "cough" playback in sfall, can remedy the modders urge to upscale .MVE videos, in a different format to also increase the visual quality. period.

    EDIT: fixing some typos.. ehh this drunkposting :p
  10. QuantumApprentice

    QuantumApprentice Still Mildly Glowing

    Feb 9, 2018
    lol yes! of course! absolutely! I'm not disagreeing with you here! :P

    I just thought your original problem was having difficulty in creating compatible .mve files because of an inability to create the correct video color type for the source file...which was preventing videos from being able to play in the Yesterday mod for people.

    I may be a little confused here, but I have been able to "play" the videos ever since version 1, they just wouldn't play in-game originally. But the last update the videos were playing for me in-game just fine. Are you and others having trouble playing videos in the most recent release?

    BTW ffmpeg says it can convert to 555le format video if you need to test different color palettes:
    Pixel formats:
    I.... = Supported Input  format for conversion
    .O... = Supported Output format for conversion
    ..H.. = Hardware accelerated format
    ...P. = Paletted format
    ....B = Bitstream format
    IO... rgb555be               3            15
    IO... rgb555le               3            15
    IO... bgr565be               3            16
    IO... bgr565le               3            16
    IO... bgr555be               3            15
    IO... bgr555le               3            15
    a couple of other pixel formats that might be worth testing:
    IO... gray                   1             8
    IO..B monow                  1             1
    IO..B monob                  1             1
    I..P. pal8                   1             8
    IO... rgb8                   3             8
    IO... bgr8                   3             8
    iirc you should be able to use a color palette in ffmpeg as well, but I'd have to run tests to confirm (I probably will eventually since adding videos is on my list of stuff to figure out) (also I've never used a palette in ffmpeg outside of making a gif :P).
  11. gustarballs1983

    gustarballs1983 Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Oct 28, 2009
    Generally I had the same issues as You.. R1 and R2 videos could be played with a desktop video player but not in game (despite the fact I've set the proper settings in sfall for them to work). in R3 the videos were converted to .MVE hence why they could be played in game correctly.

    The 555 color scheme is available not only in ffmpeg. it's also present in "VirtualDub2". Virtual dub does the job faster and has a decent GUI, so no fucking around with command line. Additionally Virtual Dub (any version) doesn't require a reboot after use in order to run 32bit applications like ffmpeg does.

    The main issue of this thread is that Sfall is seposedly enable to use any kind of DirectShow video playback ingame, but it doesn't. only some work and they don't work for everyone, and allso present buggy behaviour, ( black screen after replaying from pipboy or in any other from than the intro before the main menu). So I proposed and I propose agin that sfall folks should tackle thos issue.

    I'm also stating it once agin there is no need to have anything better than avi2mve.exe for the video conversion to .mve it's just that DOS VGA video system put's a limit on the maximum number of colors hence why the video can't be 256 colors in 640x480, it *will* be limited to 16 colors in that resolution due to VGA specification. there is no secrecy behind it. low res and low color video will look ugly as fuck no matter what. so the only option to enhance fallout videos is by going outside the .mve format, which is capped to 640x480 max anyway.
  12. QuantumApprentice

    QuantumApprentice Still Mildly Glowing

    Feb 9, 2018
    Why are you using 32bit version of ffmpeg? They discontinued updating it like 2 years ago.
    I'm using the 64bit version and it never crashes unless I do something dumb with it.

    I'll run some tests when I start working on this problem directly, I'm curious if vdub actually does the job faster, but I can't argue if you absolutely need a gui. Guess I'm just used to the command line :/

    Gotta be clear here, that's not what your original post asked for, so maybe you should contact them directly with this request.

    There's always a need for something better and easier to use :)
    Why do you think I'm making all these batch scripts with ffmpeg for my modding videos?
    Once I figure out how to create a gui based executable I'll start contributing that stuff too :D

    Can't disagree with you there, upscaling is always a problem with low res videos.

    But that doesn't mean a good solid method of creating a .mve shouldn't be documented for others who just want to make a mod now...while they're still working on the directshow stuff. Again, your original post lead me to believe this was the problem...not being able to convert to a usable format for avi2mve.exe.

    (is avi2mve.exe open source on github? how difficult would this be to accomplish?)

    Also, as far as limited color goes, that's where testing different palette conversion methods or having an artist work in the original palette is recommended. The goal would be to make a video that actually looked good in that palette. Most movies go through a color grading process that effectively alters the palette of the original video...I'd argue having to do a primitive version of this for fallout's .mve's isn't really a big deal...if you wanted to bother anyway.
    I'd also argue most people don't really care and it's just kind of cool to have videos in fallout mods at all. I can't think of any fallout 3/4/nv mods that have videos in them :)
  13. gustarballs1983

    gustarballs1983 Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Oct 28, 2009
    I *am* using the 64 bit version but it has a sub component that prevents launching pf 32 bit applications while it runs (and afterwards until reboot)

    Just remember to use "Virtual Dub 2" eariler builds won't cut it as they don't have the proper color scheme so that avi2mve.exe could chew it through.

    the need in the thread evolved once I've made enaugh reaserch on the topic myself I realised that .MVE is doomed.
    Perhaps I should contact sfall devs.

    what I meant was nothing besides avi2mve.exe is needed since it's already at the pinnacle of what we can squeeze out of .mve format.

    what for do you want to create a gui for decoding .mve? there's never going to be an encoder since .mve is intellectual property of interplay and *is* closed source. so no hopes there.
    Even Abel (the creator of avi2mve.exe) stated that the videos made with his tool are for private use only and shouldn't be distributed (distribution however is a whole broad topics of meanings and is handled by law differently depending on the country as some allow to distribute "free content" with use of unlicensed tools, however all countries ban "selling distribution" if unlicensed copyrightprotected tools were used to create such stuff). In short in Russia and eastern europe nobody's gonna give a fuck however in western world You're gonna get your ass sued asap, for such behaviour.

    What i meant about Low res low color, was the 640x480 output of avi2mve.exe it's forced to be 16 colors due to MS-DOS-VGA specification.

    I sepose that a short tutorial could be made with VirtualDub2 how to open an ffmpeg file in it, how to configure settings, and finally how to run it + tutorial on usage of at least one version of avi2mve.exe in some way (as it has GUI too you know).
    All that until Sfall guys figure out how to implement independant alternative video playback in Fo2 engine fully and bug free.
    From that point onwards, it will be free 4 all american werstling competition.

    As far as palettes for .MVEs go, there's no such thing as one color palette for fallout movie. each file has different palette as yo can only pick 16 colors from 18 bit palette for 640x480 video. It's very little, so either the video colors must be coloristically very close to itself and pick a palette from one type of color or there are going to be problems.
    anyways avi2mve.exe outputs the video file with it's custom made palette by default (two files are created <moviename>.mve and <moviename>.pal )
    as for why abomination mods have no videos is probably because their developers are not as dedicated as classic fallout mod developers. ( modding tools ar harder to master, so creating a simple video in low res is an easier feat hardware wise than creating bunch high res videos in various resolutions to work with an abomination mod.

    Anyways Fallout Videos are not a lost case. Topaz Labs Video Enhance AI does wonders with them, and everything is done in literally few minutes per video thanks to GPU hardware acceleration of the upscaling process. and the machine-taught various AI's are to detrmine which one will you use for the video at hand. plus they all are constantly developing imrooving upon improoving their AI to do the job even better.
  14. QuantumApprentice

    QuantumApprentice Still Mildly Glowing

    Feb 9, 2018
    Uh...can you explain that to me a little clearer? Is there a way I can duplicate this problem? afaik that's not happening to me, but if you don't want to bother further then I won't pester you on it :)

    cool thanks for letting me know :)

    Here's the github
    If you have the knowledge and want to contribute, maybe politely check with them?

    I was afraid that would be the case. I don't think there's anything to worry about regarding the license on a 20 year old video encoder that doesn't do anything above 480p. In particular since (as I understand it) it's still Interplay's and not Bethesda's. It would probably lie under the term abandon-ware, but I understand the hesitance up to this point.
    I just want to try and get more open source tools for modders as opposed to closed executables.

    There is no way the original videos were only in 16 colors.
    Every interview I've seen with Leonard Boyarsky and Tim Cain have said they used a 256 color palette with one row (32 colors) reserved for color cycling, and another 16 by windows, leaving a specific Fallout palette of 208 colors (I can even provide links to the quotes :P).

    There must be something we're missing about what avi2mve can accept as a pixel format.

    I use OBS combined with DaVinci Resolve personally, have you seen my tutorials?


    yup yup, just wish the originals were still available :(
  15. gustarballs1983

    gustarballs1983 Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Oct 28, 2009
    I've noticed a component of ffmpeg called: disable (or was it block) 32 bit apps or something like that, and after running ffmpeg to edit a video i couldn't launch any 32 bit application until i rebooted. so i decided to titch that shit software (it was 64 bit ffmpeg version that did this)

    Lol at "have the knolwedge" it would be more like "gibs muh dat feature plissss " rather than anythig constructive :(

    Beats me But I'd rather blow on cold than sit in the slummer if you get "muh" meaning...

    Most of the videos for Fo1 for example were smaller than 640x480 since VGA standard enables 256 colors up to 400x360 resolution for 60Hz, however latr iteations of .MVE standard could potentially be something custom. At least Fo1 was VGA stadard since Fo1 had a full dos version, so it had to be compatible. However Fo2 was windows only so they might to some modifications to the video standard.

    Or simply ther's somethig that avi 2 mve is missing from most recent .mve standard (perhaps it works on previous ones)

    I watched some of the gameplays but it's a pain in te butt 4 me watching theese.. You tend to get carried away by interacting with your audience, and do a lot of digressions, and the videos take freaking 2 long 4 me because of that.
    simply put I've got 2 much real life shit to take care of, so I can't spend so much time in front of you tube. Sorry.

    what?! fallout *is* by definitioion an isometric, turn based post apocalyptic adventure. if it ain't ismetric and it ain't turn based it ain't fallout. henece 3;nv;4;76 etc are not fallouts but abominations.

    What do you mean by originals?
    one can easily pull out an .avi from .mve without loosing any quality.
    topaz labd does wonders with them. the only problem is converting them back to .mve avi2mve.exe doesn't do a good job in converting them back to .mve they all look ugly as shit.
  16. QuantumApprentice

    QuantumApprentice Still Mildly Glowing

    Feb 9, 2018
    Can you recommend a 32 bit app for me to test this? I probably have some, but I've been using x64 for so long that I can't think of any in particular that I use.

    lol I understand, I'm just hesitant to complain since they've already done so much to advance the modding scene in their free time.

    I don't know what "blow on cold" means, but I understand the rest :P That's why I understand people's hesitance. Even if jail is not involved, things like cease and desist letters could come out. Very unlikely that people (even businesses) would bother going to court when a threatening e-mail will remove the "infringing" content 99% of the time.

    I wasn't actually referring to the gameplays, I fully understand those are more of an audience thing (hence why I stream that way), I was actually referring to my modding guides, stickied at the top of the forum. You do make a good point about not having the time though, I've been trying to figure a way to condense them into something more edible (like 20 minute increments or something), but haven't made much progress yet given the time it takes to do that kind of editing.

    This is why I was hoping for something more open source, that way we could see what the encoder is actually doing and make the necessary adjustments. If it's actually paletting down to 16 colors, then there's something wrong, as 555le is 15bit, not 15 colors (15bit = 2^15 possible colors).

    IMO further testing is necessary, or possibly contacting the original avi2mve devs to see what we're doing wrong...and I have no clue how to do that. Any suggestions? Shall we supplicate ourselves at their feet and beg for answers? :P

    I mean the original art that was made on their fancy Indigo Machines with Power Animator :P
    AI upscaling is nice, but nothing beats the original, like when those original Vault Boy art from Tramel Ray Isaac went up for sale on ebay that one time. Before they were pulled (due to a DMCA from Bethesda) people managed to get hi-resolution scans that have since been added to the wikis:
    Last edited: May 1, 2021 at 12:19 AM
  17. gustarballs1983

    gustarballs1983 Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Oct 28, 2009
    I simply tried to start a Fallout game in my case i was testing on a R2 of Fo:Yesterday, but it shouldn't matter..

    Yeah I wouldn't want to bother them either but this feature in it's current state is how should i say it ".. not up to specs.."

    Heh blowing on cold is just an old folk saying for something done 'just in case' even if not required: in this case the saying was blowing some air wht your mouth on a spoon with food, because "if" it's too hot, it'll burn your mouth inside, if it's not hot at all nothing bad will be happening. So it's worth to blow on your food. You usually can't tell if it's hot or not, so it's better to even "bolow on cold".
    As for the rest I think we agree...

    I probably will someday have a look on your vids, when/if I'll put my wretched claws on the BIS mapper, or I'll actually learn programing an perhaps then I'll be looking for some script editor help. Until then it's only Proto tools 4 me, and those seem quite intuitive.

    I doubt, we're ever see a .mve open source encoder since the codec itself is proprtiary. it's like years back certain companies using certain mp3 encoders had to issue a fee for their product in order to encode mp3's, later a lawsiut has been settled and it ain't proprertiary no more, however with .mve and bethsoft it ain't gonna happen. however if You claim Interplay still has the rights to this stuff, Your best bet is to go bug Brian Fargo's ass @ inXile, as he was the Interplay's founder an co-owner.

    I think I made a hint where to start in my response above. .mve was used in various Interplay/Black Isle productions like "Waldorf's Gay" and "Waldorf's Gay2" and various others i think...

    I think You underestimate the power of AI upscaling. I mean it already does the job quite well, but it's only the beginning the AI's used by topaz labs are just young babies that begin to learn to walk. when they'll be grown up and fully developed then You should watch what they can do :)
    I mean AI upscale is totaly different from simple upscale it's like compareing moonless night far away from city lights to a sunny day.