CT Phipps' review of Fallout 4

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by CT Phipps, Sep 17, 2016.

  1. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Ex-fucking-catly. Rule of Cool. Almost everything in Bethout is governmed by the Rule of Cool instead of consistent world building. Quoth Pete 'Shiteating' Hines, they're not interesting in realism. They're also not interested in verisimilitude, or consistency, or canon, or people with a mental age older than 5, which apparently is what Toddler and Petey are stuck in.
    Now I do like mindless fun. I have no problem turning off my brain and just enjoying stuff for what it is. But Fallout 4 is a) not a case where I should have to do that all the time, and b) just massively inconsistent in its tone and application of mindlessness that it's just crap. Farcry 3: Blood Dragon or Kung Fury or Dr McNinja are full-on ridiculous. They don't give a fuck, they just want to be silly-awesome. And it can work in Fallout, it's what easter eggs are for. But Fallout 4 pretends to be mature. It wants to be this epic tale, this almost-real world. Just remember how awe-struck the Toddler was when he talked about how they were going to do something new with the voiced protagonist, how proud they were of that. But they couldn't actually pull it off. The whole game reeks of laziness. The writing. The quests. The technical aspects. Everything is just lazy, half-assed, fucked up.
    There's literally no aspect of the game that couldn't be easily improved if they just committed themselves to it. Let's just take a look at one of the aspects of the game that even most people on NMA like: Power armor. The concept is ok, and the way they play is actually good. PA feels weighty and, well, powerful. But they're also kinda boring. You get your first PA within the first hour of the game, and you get so many of them that you build storage hangars just for them. Most of them you never really use because all upgrades you can do are incremental, so there's no point in using a weaker one. And PA is ubiquous. It's fucking everywhere, in leveled spawns.
    The whole thing is just massively underused. There's only one frame to work with, and the only thing affecting fusion core drain rate is a perk. Long story short, it's lazy bullshit. They added a power armour gang, but they're in a remote location and they're the only ones doing that thing. They made PA ubiquous, but didn't actually go through with it. Proctor Ingram uses a frame for her missing legs, but nobody else actually uses PA. Why not use them for construction and field work?
    Why are there not more PA gangs that trick out their suits?
    And let's take a look at the upgrade system. Not really much to do there. Stats increments and a few addons that sometimes even break the game (targeting computers sometimes turns people hostile). Boring. They could have easily done this properly. Add different frames. It's retarded that "X-01" parts fit the same frame as T-45 parts. Different frames that give different strength-boost stats and different fusion core drain, should have been easy enough to implement.
    Speaking of T-45, Bethesda again fucked up their own lore. One loading screen says that T-51 is the pinnacle of pre-war PA tech, another says that T-60 (which is plain better) was deployed shortly before the war. And why would T-60 look like T-45 again? Obviously because Bethesda wanted to show "their" design in the pre-war sequences that were heavily featured prior to release.
    T-60 should have been a BoS-developed improvement of their old T-45 suits. The frame should take T-45 and T-60 parts, but not (all) T-51 or X-01 parts. I could go on, but I think you see what I mean. Fallout 4 is a story of wasted opportunities and laziness. The Toddler should go fuck himself.
     
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  2. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016

    :confused:
     
  3. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    The Institute is both the worst and best written faction in Fallout 4 because they have all the contradictions, laziness, and human foibles as well as outright incompetence of a real life organization. I mean, 90% of their Synth runaway problem is due to the programmer for them telling they're slaves and that they should hate scrubbing toilets.

    I would have made it a 1,000 caps. If they had, though, it would have resulted in a lot of players taking him up on the offer.

    I'm not sure those things don't actually exist in Diamond City but this is where it gets to be problematic as the places we visit are extrapolations rather than actual literal representations of cities. There's obviously organized trade routes in the Commonwealth as you can actually establish them yourself and there's businesses enough to have legitimate companies which have investments and stock. Diamond City has a "rich" section, real-estate prices, a chapel, public education, and more. A bank would just be natural but we can't fit the entire actual city into the game.

    Raider culture as established in Nuka World shows that Raiders very much do have a basic desire for money as well as other needs being met. Food is precious in the post-apocalypse world but caps themselves are a major source of need. The Capital Wasteland Raiders actually appeared to be killing to survive if all those corpses hung around and "Iganua on a Stick" was actually Strange Meat as in Fallout 1. Here, it seems these individuals are bandits in the Jesse James and Old West sense.

    As the Master pointed out, the superior results for dipping in FEV come from doing so with unradiated Wastelanders like those who come from Vaults. The experimental subjects of the Institutes are all wastelanders who grew up in the Glowing Sea storm subjected Commonwealth. In other words, they're abyssal candidates for Super mutantdom and it's no surprise they're all as dumb as Harry. Of course, Virgil is no Richard Grey either and the fact he came up with a retrovirus which reverses FEV mutation but didn't figure out you need pure DNA to make Super Mutants who aren't as dumb as Strong never occurred to him.

    Counterpoint, what you have is, in scientific terms, a theory. You have the suspicion the Institute is underground and under the Commonwealth Institute of Technology. This despite the fact that Vaults are known as existing objects as well as plenty of underground military bases (the Railroad actually had a fully-functioning one which seems like a horrific shame to waste).

    The Triggermen even had one and they're just a gang. Even if you believe they're directly located underneath the Commonwealth Institute of Technology, it appears to be literally hundreds of feet of digging. It would require a massive construction project and digging equipment as well as unlimited amounts of caps for an unproven untested theory.

    Even so, the Institute is, despite their treatment in the game as being a bunch of overly educated idiots, supposed to be good at their job. While people know Synths exist, almost no actually knows how many Synths or how many disappearances actually occur. Indeed, the Institute employers counter-propaganda to actually keep the public at ease. See the Mayor of Diamond City being a Synth, the exile of ghouls (who possess Pre-War knowledge like, say, the Commonwealth Institute of technology), and so on.

    Also, a large portion of the Commonwealth is on the payroll of the Institute as well. Trashcan Carla and all the Caravneers at Bunker Hill EXCEPT Old Man Stockton means the Institute may very well control the Commonwealth Wasteland economy. Henry the bartender is also an Institute spy. If you can't beat em, join em, I suppose.

    Vault 111 is, unfortunately, pretty much as useful a Vault as Vault City's in that it's best used as a storage area. It's a tomb of a bunch of extremely specific frozen corpses with no remaining supplies or equipment for growing food, water, and other vital Vault material. I do think its annoying we never seem to see any GECKS, though as you'd think that Vault would have 2 of them onhand and they could really fix some of the Commonwealth (albeit, the radiation storms might screw it up).

    The Institute is effectively the Enclave for the Commonwealth in that it exists as a palpable presence but it exists and works behind the scenes in the shadows. Theoretically. In the game, the Institute acts ridiculously overtly with a pair of exterminated large-scale settlements and lots of kidnappings for no apparent reason. Still, the populace has other issues like the Super Mutants (which they don't realize is tied to the Institute), Gunners, Raiders, and more.

    I would say your attitude is probably why the Railroad has so many members, though. I can't imagine there's as many Railroad members as there are purely for the rights of Synths.

    I'd be interested if you think there's a better place for him to hide.

    Eh, real life fugitives, even highly educated ones, make stupid stupid mistakes all the time. These kind of overly complicated plans usually don't work.

    Pardon me but the idea that currency needs to be backed by a substance of value is something which has been kind of refuted a long time ago. Currencies exist for the purposes of allowing exchange of goods and value without actually needing to return to the barter system. You're also wrong about the "no one to back them" because caps are backed by every single merchant which chooses to accept them.

    The Stockton Trading Company and other parties involved could very much be central enough to the economy that it is backed. Albeit, you got me as to who backs the currency of caps in the Capital Wasteland. Then again, I suppose you'd only need it to be the currency of Rivet City.

    Caps can exist based on credit ascribed to bartering for goods.

    The horses migrated up to the North American West by themselves is the point. They weren't sold to the Native Americans but became wild herds on their own which were subsequently broken. Deathclaws, as predators, presumably chase game and expand from the territory of others of their kind. They could easily have gotten to the Capital Wasteland on their own just by virtue of nothing being there to stop them as long as there was food the entire way.

    Elder Lyons did an investigation of the Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel and didn't find anything of them while remaining in radio contact with the Western Brotherhood of Steel until they went silent. Until proven otherwise, they're either dead or simply want nothing to do with their brothers.

    It could also mean the Brotherhood of Steel surrendered or came to truce. The problem with Fallout, as much as I love the games, is they tend to confuse victory and genocide. Are we really going to assume the Brotherhood is going to fight to the last squire?

    The Brotherhood of Steel has some flexibility in its doctrines. Not much but some. In the case of Elder Lyons, it took an extremely large amount of crappy leadership and Codex-breaking behavior to get the Outcasts to rebel and even then the Elders at Lost Hills didn't remove him from power. In the case of Maxson, the fact he has brought them closer to the center if not pure conservatism is probably enough to allow the Outcasts to accept him as elder.

    Piper's treatment of her sister is complete shit. I wanted to invite her to live with us at Casa De Red Rocket but it never came up. Then again, I treated Piper with respect and pleasantness so I didn't see your scene, whatever it's from.

    Neutron bombs were created precisely to be that dirty, though, before people realized what a terribad idea they were.

    Given the Glowing Sea contains a United States nuclear silo command, it's entirely possible the bomb hit another one of them or several and that's why the place is Dante's Inferno. The Captain of the sub also states that he had one gigantic enormous ICBM which he fired and a lot of tactical ones.

    There's an old saying that 100 years is a long time in America and in England, 100 miles is a long way. But yes, I fucked up my numbers and in fact Massachusetts is 50 miles wide and 190 miles long, which seems a more appropriate number to walk from Sanctuary Hills to The Glowing Sea.

    The Railroad is about half made of Synths and bluntly, they don't want a lynch mob to blow up the Institute. Desdemona becomes hostile along with the Railroad if you destroy it without evacuating it.

    The Institute is a strange beast as they're supposed to be a super-competent Illuminati but behave like a bunch of idiots when it's not a Courser in control.

    AMAZINGLY, Bethesda actually addressed this and you were clearing out that former hotel as a new safehouse for the Railroad and other locations for them so they could have new places to move. It's just it took a lot longer than expected and they get massacred before they can move.

    Well, unless you save them.

    Neither of the Sole Survivors behave in a manner which befits the death of their world, the death of their spouse, and the kidnapping of their child. Frankly, instead of a Sarcastic Option, they should have had "Traumatized Horrified Mumbling."

    The situation for the Outcasts wasn't exactly working out very well for them. They failed to gain the Operation: Anchorage cache, they were being hunted by the Regulators, Elder Lyons successfully confiscated the Enclave's treasure trove, and they were pouring over junk in their base. The Outcasts rejoining probably happened as soon as Lost Hills appointed Maxson Elder.

    I meant protection in the Raider sense.

    I reviewed that story and Curie says the panacea requires ingredients which are now extinct. Hence why only one dose of Mole Rat cure.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016
  4. a721402

    a721402 Played FPS for decades still suck at it.

    742
    Mar 29, 2016
    Are you trying to turn A.I. into something like Nano Machine in MGS series?
    To make a machine stay in working order, what it need is stable energy supply and part replacement, both are not something a post apocalyptic can provide, since you need a working power planet to provide power supply and many factories to provide parts for the machine.
    A.I. can not create those with nothing, and also, intelligence learning ability did not come with every A.I.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016
  5. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    It doesn't require sentience, though. And no, sentience can't be developed due to a malfunction, except maybe in a shitty Stephen King novel.
    They also talk about Space colonization in 2.
    Don't be stupid.
    Nope, it's not very far down. You can get there by going through a secret access tunnel in a sewer, not a particularly deep sewer.
    Unless you know of some other appearance of the Institute the only source you're using is Fallout 4. If Fallout 4 clearly shows you they act overtly (as you point out, with large scale settlements and kidnappings) you can't turn around and say they work from the shadows.
    That's not how fiat money works.
    Given that Deathclaws evolved from lizards, it seems unlikely they'd want to migrate to a colder climate.
    Do you think of this as an example of good writing, due to your personal experience with ineffective scholarly institutions which I've seen you relate to the Institute several times, or as an example of generally bad writing and likely a sign of conflicting rewrites?

    (I still want to know what Benjamin Button has to do with Fallout, by the way.)
     
  6. lolpop109

    lolpop109 Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    839
    Jul 14, 2016
    I mean i personally think the institute is the worst faction in fallout 4. Because all that teleporter bollocks. Why would you need to build a teleporter to get down there if its just under MIT ? How does it make sence they have all the new stuff they would have trade ect not just live underground. I can't actually comperend how retarted the story/ instutie is. I know people don't care about lore ect but i was so exicted to see rail road ect as hinted by fo3 i thought it was going to be better and something out. I really thought be like a city or something where aroids where actually used for something like sold of or something. But i dunno seems really stupid how it turns out.

    Mintuemen is the best faction as you can actually change it but still i feel needs to be more developed and also preston gravey ir royal stupid
     
  7. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    I dislike the Institute being all secretive and hidden and generally more like a myth than reality. Fallout 3 saw them sending a guy over to the Capital Wasteland just for a single synth and talking openly about it and how stuff is much better in the Commonwealth. Well, the Commonwealth is as much a dirty shithole as the Capital Wasteland now, so that was kind of a derailed hype train... But he made it sound like the Institute is actually some kind of technocratic ruling class in the Commonwealth who openly control the Commonwealth via superior technology, and not some hidden place people know nothing about.
     
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  8. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    Best written because it's badly written? Uh huh.

    No one thought "What if it's under the old C.I.T building?" in all that time? As to the Vaults part, it would be more believable that as time went on since the War people forgot about their existence, or even if they didn't they wouldn't know where exactly they are. Sorry getting off track.

    That's a fair point, but there's at least some salvageable stuff down there and if I remember correctly the water purifier still works.

    The first time I talked to Zimmer I had the impression that the Institute wasn't underground but walled off from the rest of the Commonwealth and that only a select few can ever step foot inside said walls. I never thought of them as the idiots we see in Fallout 4, wasting time creating synthetic gorillas.
     
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  9. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Exactly, I thought they'd be the untouchable ruling party living in the literal ivory towers of their own technocratic supremacy.
    But no, they suck. Good ideas wasted seems to be the big thing they were going for in Fallout 4.
     
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  10. CerberusGate

    CerberusGate I should save my game in a whole new slot

    Jun 6, 2016
    The Institute should have been like the society of Vault City up to eleven with tech comparable to Big MT's level. They should be an elitist technocracy that isolated themselves with proper boundaries and should not have been thick-headed boogeymen who waste resources on pointless research of all things.
     
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  11. lolpop109

    lolpop109 Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    839
    Jul 14, 2016
    Thats excaltly what i thought thought. I thought the institute would control the common wealth with all their powerful tech and have massive settlements and be very wealthly. But yeah a disappointing for me it also goes back on fo3 lore and that whloe quest whitch i liked very much
     
  12. lolpop109

    lolpop109 Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    839
    Jul 14, 2016
    Why do they even bother with making fucking sythns they have not use with them. I think thats the biggest problem with them they put all that effort to have the best tech in maybe the whloe of USA but yeah they got nothing to achive no goal just what nothing ? I know they said they wanted to turn the wasteland back to pre war life but how does that even make senc ewhen there saving people ect

    I would like to of seen them as self intrested but also with settlment and power
     
  13. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    When I first finished Fallout 4, I had to look up what the Institute's motives were. I'm still not entirely sure now, it just seems to be "We need to make the world a better place, but the world is too far gone so we'll stay down here and keep sending synths up there so they don't find us even though sending synths to murder entire settlements will only create more and more opposition to us and-"

    Sorry got carried away there.
     
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  14. lolpop109

    lolpop109 Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    839
    Jul 14, 2016
    Yeah it seems pointless that they will kill settlers it so confusing. Its also confusing why sythns would just attack the player character or just other settlers ect. That whloe faction is honestly fudged up how could you join them aswell after you would have to take out like half there army before you can join them. The teleporting shit is bull crap too
     
  15. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    Yeah the teleporter is stretching it, although wasn't there a teleporter in Old World Blues? Was that definitely a teleporter or just some kind of trick?
     
  16. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Pretty sure that was a teleporter, yes. Well, a "transportalponder". I don't mind the teleporter that much, it fitted OWB's silly sci fi theme, and it's fine in the Institute.
     
  17. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    Fair enough. It's not like teleporters are a wide-spread Pre-War technology.





    shit I shouldn't have said that in case Bethesda are watching.
     
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  18. SarcasticGoodGuy

    SarcasticGoodGuy *R O T T E N*

    Aug 31, 2016
    This forum has already given beth too many ideas.

    There's a leak that says the protagonist's name in F5 is "explosive artillery interrupts so you can't hear them"
     
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  19. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    Doctor Zimmer is very clear the Commonwealth is a shithole in Fallout 3. I posted this in another thread.

    5:27

     
  20. Prone Squanderer

    Prone Squanderer A bit of a Sillius Soddus.

    Jan 3, 2016
    I don't think that was in doubt, some of us just expected the Institute to be more active and powerful than is shown in Fallout 4.