Doctor Who

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Chromevod, Aug 26, 2011.

  1. TheWesDude

    TheWesDude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 25, 2005
    wow... not sure how anyone could stand this self-masturbation for the ending.

    it was very well acted, nice production.

    but oh boy.....

    [spoiler:a63a6258a4]
    ok, with reconning the while time war, there was no finalaity to the time war now, and it would not have been time-locked. the machine was supposed to have gone off, and that is what created the time lock sucking in all the daleks and galifrey and the cult of skara and such.

    without them getting sucked into the void...

    what about the 2 part episode xmas special with the donna's dad and the great speech about how galifrey had to fall because of how war-like the time lords had become?

    without that final solution for the time lord vs dalek war, there are far too many problems.

    and why the hell did they not close with the introduction for Capaldi officially giving him a start?

    hell, capaldi didnt even have like 1 second of screen time, and that will have to be the intro to the next season, the regeneration that leads to capaldi.
    [/spoiler:a63a6258a4]
     
  2. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I missed it!!!! (been reading a comic series called the Massive, a PA story in which all kinds of disasters have wiped out the current/old order and radically changed the world's power balance and geography)

    But from what I read on Wikipedia it is not such a serious loss, I'll catch up on it online one of these days.

    [spoiler:98dcb7c579]A retcon, how nice.
    Not that I mind that Gallifrey might still exists, but when you make a decision you have to stick to your guns, how inconvenient it sometimes may be.[/spoiler:98dcb7c579]
     
  3. 34thcell

    34thcell Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    333
    Sep 22, 2008
    Does this mean that...[spoiler:3e24575b18]the Master and evil High Council are still alive or was that explained away?[/spoiler:3e24575b18]
     
  4. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    It was
    [spoiler:17f2226bc4]The High Council was still doing its thing, what we saw was the war council (I think). The High Council wasn't aware of change of plans and thought the Doctor was gonna blow shit up. So that all still happened.[/spoiler:17f2226bc4]

    [spoiler:17f2226bc4]I don't like retcons, and I think it's very arrogant of Moffat to retcon material of his predecessor, that's generally considered poor taste. But hey, Moffat being arrogant, what else is new

    That said, they wrote pretty carefully around any problems the retcon created. As far as the 9th, 10th and 11th up to now know, the destruction of Gallifrey still happened, so their memories are the same, and the stories where they discuss it still makes sense. It does remove pathos for us fans though. But it doesn't really create story problems.

    And I gotta say, if you're gonna retcon, getting all the Doctors together at least gives it the necessary uumph to justify it.

    And uh yeah, Capaldi only got a cameo. You do realize that's the first time a Doctor has showed up BEFORE his regeneration, right? Not counting the Watcher, or the Valeyard, neither of whom were full incarnations. It was a pretty special, unique moment, and very well done.[/spoiler:17f2226bc4]
     
  5. .Pixote.

    .Pixote. Carbon Dated and Proud
    Modder

    Sep 14, 2009
    I watched the 3 Doctor special with the wife - and wasn't happy. The show feels cheap and fractured. This might seem like a stupid question, but are the Doctors allowed to meet one another in time?, I thought bad things would happen with time and space, etc, or has the show got to the point were the writers can just make up any shit just to pull an audience.

    It was nice to see Tom Baker again.
     
  6. Yamu

    Yamu Le Fromage Vieux oTO Moderator Orderite

    Jul 26, 2003
    Wait, what? Do you mean this most recent special, or the 70s serial that was actually called "The Three Doctors?" The show's been rife with temporal paradoxes since forever, and Doctor meetups for anniversaries have been a time-honored tradition since the way back when. The only particularly facepalmy instance from the post-2006 run is when Matt Smith's Doctor ended up meeting himself during the Pandorica episodes.

    I think they did a rather decent job of sweeping these sort of questions under the rug when Eccleston's Doctor encountered a temporal paradox and said something to the effect of "This sort of thing wouldn't have happened if the Time Lords were still keeping watch over things, no sir." Kind of a simple justification, but it works. That said, they have been leaning on the "wibbley-wobley, timey-wimey" thing a bit much since the series' relaunch, but it's not like the show didn't make up the rules on the fly in the past, too.
     
  7. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Yeah, Dr Who has never been too strict on any temporal rules, least of all meeting yourself, but you are or were not supposed to touch yourself, coz of the Blinovitch Limitation Effect. This page explains a lot of Doctor Who's changing time rules.

    Moffat's always been particularly arrogant of breaking the rules though, it really does kind of devalue storytelling, even compared to the RTD era. He just doesn't care, and then he makes up a stupid rule ("I can't go to New York in this specific year anymore!") for narrative convenience. Sacrifices consistency to narrative. That won't work longterm.
     
  8. 34thcell

    34thcell Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    333
    Sep 22, 2008
    Well that would be an awkward moment.
     
  9. Verd1234

    Verd1234 Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    337
    Jan 16, 2009
  10. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    It really does feel like Hurt was unnecessary now. Should have just been McGann's 8th doing all of that. Would've worked much better from a narrative standpoint, rather than pulling a new incarnation out of your ass only to then immediately shove him off again.

    Regeneration rule has never been that interesting to me, they'll just find a way around it. Wonder if we'll see the Valeyard now, tho
     
  11. Kilus

    Kilus Not Australian Orderite

    May 3, 2003
    End the show while it is still going relatively strong.
     
  12. .Pixote.

    .Pixote. Carbon Dated and Proud
    Modder

    Sep 14, 2009
    I hope they remake the early series (1963 onwards), the same stories, same characters - new actors, (typically 4 to 5 episodes a story) with a bigger budget, new visuals. I'm not fond of these 1 episode stories, the pace too fast for my simple mind. :roll:

     
  13. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
  14. BonusWaffle

    BonusWaffle Still Mildly Glowing

    244
    Mar 6, 2013
    This episode made me realize that i dont hate moffat. Just matt smith.
     
  15. Josan

    Josan Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    366
    Oct 23, 2003
    Funny. The special reaffirmed my exact opposite views.

    And I'd really much rather have had McGann in the role instead of Hurt. They did the mini-episode prequel with him. They could have just done the special with him too.
     
  16. Yamu

    Yamu Le Fromage Vieux oTO Moderator Orderite

    Jul 26, 2003
    Some conspiracy theorists out there think it was (partially) due to wanting to up the ante on the regeneration count.

    [spoiler:b1898b9e34] In fact somare goig as far as theorizing that Smith's Doctor technically doesn't have any regenerations, as Tennant's technically burned one in Journey's End to keep himself alive. That means that sandwiching in the (unnecessary) War Doctor reduces his pool of 1-ups to nothing, and that Moffat could be spooling up for an equally unnecessary byzantine extravaganza-from-out-of-nowhere to explain the next batch of regens, or so goes speculation. [/spoiler:b1898b9e34]

    Sounds like something he might do, but I'm tentatively betting against. We'll see. Whatever happens, I'll be satisfied so long as it doesn't shoot for being more overwrought than The End of Time.
     
  17. Kilus

    Kilus Not Australian Orderite

    May 3, 2003
    Maybe when the last Doctor dies it'll turn out he laid an egg and the next Doctor hatches from it.
     
  18. TheWesDude

    TheWesDude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 25, 2005
    i think it was great until the ending.

    sadly it seems moffatt does that.

    there have been some great episodes from moffatt, but lets be honest, a few does not make the rest worthy.

    i think smith was a great incarnation. they hit on a lot of the reasons why in their "11th doctor revisited" special.

    when are they going to officially introduce capaldi into the role? i thought they may have done it during this special, but it will have to be during the show as it seems there isnt going to be an xmas special.
     
  19. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    They're doing it in the next special, the Christmas special, Time of the Doctor.

    PS: I think McGann may simply not have agreed in time for them to rely on him for the part. It's all speculation tho. Still kind of a shame. Would've been both easier and more impressive to have him as War.
     
  20. 34thcell

    34thcell Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    333
    Sep 22, 2008
    Fixed