Timez
First time out of the vault
Thank you for this wonderful mod.
Is there a version for 1in2 not dependent on RP?
Is there a version for 1in2 not dependent on RP?
Fallout 2 mod EcCo Gameplay Overhaul (new version for RPU)
- Thread starter phobos2077
- Start date
First time out of the vault
It's not possible to have EcCo not being dependent on RP in it's entirety because the core of the mod is polishing/balancing specific game (Fallout 2 + RP). However, you can salvage pieces of the mod, like some mechanic changes and try to use them with any other game, as long as you use sfall 4.4. I have some ideas to make stripped-down versions for games that I'll play in future (starting from Nevada, probably), but I don't know when/if this is going to happen. So anyone is welcome to make their own "remix" mod, as long as you don't try to claim the name "EcCo" for yourself.
I played EtTu earlier this year, and apart from some minor weapon tweaks (I've uploaded archive on that thread), I don't think it really needs a big rebalance like that. The game's just too short for that IMO, and vanilla EtTu balance is waaay better than vanilla RP.
Timez
First time out of the vault
Thank you for the info. I suspected EtTu should have good balance by itself. Just want to make sure.
What is "vanilla RP"? Vanilla + RP?
What is "vanilla RP"? Vanilla + RP?
Timez
First time out of the vault
Could nor find it. Is it in first message of the thread? Please guide me. Thank you.
Goat_Boy
Still Mildly Glowing
Would you be okay with me making a version for the Megamod, once I'm more confident with scripting? As per request, I wouldn't use the name "EcCo" or a derivative and, obviously, give full credit to you.
Timez
First time out of the vault
Does it make sense to apply Weapons Redone (https://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/fallout-2-weapons-redone-v2-3.181694/) mod to RPU + EcCo? I mean could it bring more order to the above combo or RPU inbuilt ammo mod + EcCo already do decent job on balancing?
Go ahead.
There is no point in Weapons Redone if you use EcCo. Pick one or the other. EcCo has it's own damage formula (ammo mod). You can of course combine these mods somehow but this requires some modding expertise, they will never work together as is.
Timez
First time out of the vault
That's the answer I was looking for. Thank you!
A little bit more about specifics of EcCo ammo mod? I tried to find something in archives on GitHub but not much info about formulas or at least some high level description.
See this thread https://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/my-attempt-to-fix-fo2-damage-formula-vanilla-ammo-mod.221817/
This is the actual script: https://github.com/phobos2077/fo2_ecco/blob/master/scripts_src/_pbs_main/gl_pbs_damage_mod.ssl
Here you can see and compare different ammo types and formulas: http://phobos2077.github.io/fo2_ecco/ttx/damage_calc.html (choose EcCo 0.9 dataset and formula to see data close to what's in the actual mod).
Timez
First time out of the vault
Very nice. Thank you.
Checking different ammo types. For most of them JHP indeed is better against unarmored but not by too much and their effect quickly falls below AP at about leather armor level. They seem to be good shooting unprotected animals and unarmored townsfolks. Anything above say Gecko or robbers are better dealt with AP.
Isn't it too much of AP over JHP improvement? I am not saying this need to be repaired. Just thinking.
Checking different ammo types. For most of them JHP indeed is better against unarmored but not by too much and their effect quickly falls below AP at about leather armor level. They seem to be good shooting unprotected animals and unarmored townsfolks. Anything above say Gecko or robbers are better dealt with AP.
Isn't it too much of AP over JHP improvement? I am not saying this need to be repaired. Just thinking.
I think it's fine. You encounter light armored enemies throughout the game, also sometimes you can just use JHP to conserve AP even if it's less effective. Because AP is more expensive and less plentiful.
I have just started two separate playthroughs and I'm already enjoying the new mechanics you introduced. I also like the fact that you have made alterations to RPU if it's installed, and I cannot wait to get the Piston Spear, ever since I was aware of Fallout Sonora I always wanted a mid to late-game spear as I adore those weapons.
With that said, I would like to know how to go about making the changes, either through your config files or by some other means, to things like the barter skill as well as the stats of armor/weapons that you've made.
I looked through your ecco barter config and am having a hard time grasping the formula. What should I change if I want to make Barter skill a bit more significant relative to the modifiers like reputation, bias, relationship, and charisma?
As for the Armor/Weapons, I really want to make slight alterations to the DT/DR of all the armor and their variants, I want to buff them up a bit to better contend with the increased lethality of most weapons. And I want to change the damage ranges to a few weapons that still felt underwhelming, like the 10mm Pistol. I know there are editors I can install but I presume they only factor in the vanilla versions of your weapons and armor, how can I edit your already changed weapons/armors?
With that said, I would like to know how to go about making the changes, either through your config files or by some other means, to things like the barter skill as well as the stats of armor/weapons that you've made.
I looked through your ecco barter config and am having a hard time grasping the formula. What should I change if I want to make Barter skill a bit more significant relative to the modifiers like reputation, bias, relationship, and charisma?
As for the Armor/Weapons, I really want to make slight alterations to the DT/DR of all the armor and their variants, I want to buff them up a bit to better contend with the increased lethality of most weapons. And I want to change the damage ranges to a few weapons that still felt underwhelming, like the 10mm Pistol. I know there are editors I can install but I presume they only factor in the vanilla versions of your weapons and armor, how can I edit your already changed weapons/armors?
FatMerc
First time out of the vault
Can we get a manual install version? Not sure if .exe will work on win98se. lol
Tobi_the_great
First time out of the vault
Hello is the new version of ecco v0.9.3 (BETA) compatible with Fallout 2 Restoration Project, updated v28?
Hello, this is one of the best balance mods I encountered! Here are some suggestions to improve upon the balance and sandbox of this amazing mod:
Lower the AP cost to fire the Desert Eagle and 14mm Pistol from 5 to 4 to keep the mod's consistency in having pistols cost fewer action points to make up for their inferior range, accuracy, and destructive output compared to their long-arm/burst-capable/heavyweight counterparts that use the same ammo type. The Deagle and Sig Sauer are hefty guns, but they are made obsolete by the Repeater and 14mm SMG respectively. What's worse, the 44 Deagle winds up getting outdone by the 44 Magnum, they always seemed so heavily locked to each other in competition given that they share the same caliber and are obtained as early as The Den, the only real difference is that once has better range and the other boasts higher raw damage. But the Deagle costing more AP makes the Magnum an easy winner between the two. You should not only make the Deagle cost 4 AP to fire but also reduce the extended magazine upgrade from 14 to 12. Both of the upgrades for the Deagle and Magnum accomplish the same thing, making reloading less of a hassle. To fire 12 shots and reload(twice for Speed Load Magnum and once for Ext Mag Deagle if it had 12 ammo capacity) it would cost 52 AP in exact total, which is why the ext mag should be further reduced to 12 shots rather than 14. I never was bothered by how neck-and-neck the two 44-caliber handguns were, so the simple solution of making them near equal in usage seems like a better and simpler solution.
As for the 14mm Pistol, it's very strong but still outmatched by any energy pistol, and assuming you got rid of its "Weapon Accurate" perk to ensure that pistols fulfill their roles as inaccurate, lower range, but AP cost-effective it seems like it would be fair to reduce the firing cost down to 4 AP. I can understand the 223 Pistol costing 5 action points, it's terrifyingly powerful for a small gun, is loud as hell, and even has the "Penetrate" perk, it can easily contend, and in certain hands, outdo a Hunting Rifle. So it would likely be fine if it remains as is currently, but please consider the 14mm Sig Sauer.
A few other AP cost changes could include the Gauss Pistol(too low AP cost) and the same with the Drum Mag Grenade Launcher. Its high capacity gives it a very strong advantage considering the Grenade Rifle and Missile Launcher can only fire once before having to reload. Perhaps you should up the AP cost and reduce its range or damage a bit.
Throwing Knives cost too much AP to throw, it should be lowered to match that of grenades. The current cost of throwing large spears(sharpened or otherwise) would be better justified if their damage output matched the amount if they were used in melee. I guess they do not factor in the melee damage stat from your player character if it's possible to factor in melee damage determined by Strength or Heavy Handed Trait it would make them much more viable, they seem to do little damage despite their better armor piercing abilities, which is easily done by thrusting the other melee/unarmed weapons anyways. You gave Throwing Knives a very good critical chance and damage modifiers, likewise, you should remove that benefit for thrown spears and replace it for raw damage that factors in melee damage if such a thing is possible.
Maybe for the sake of the poor sods that didn't choose melee, unarmed, or even throwing as their Tag skills, you could buff the Zip Gun and Tube Rifle in some way. Maybe give the Tube Rifle the "Penetrate" perk for use against Golden Geckos and Mole Rats, and the Zip Gun should be the exception that uses "Weapon Accurate", this gives both single-shot weapons some sort of longevity. It would make an interesting combo for those willing to rotate their shots between the two or whatever combination they decide.
Maybe make the Taser show up a bit earlier as well? I also remember Fallout 1's Zip Gun realized in Fallout 1 Et Tu which is meant to be an early game energy pistol, just rename it to something like "Beam Pistol".
Another aspect that should be looked into is the fact that the 9mm SMG does less damage than the 10mm SMG, but the 9mm Mauser does more damage than the 10mm Pistol. The damage stats should be reverted to match the consistency of damage output according to the caliber. Perhaps the 9mm Mauser and some ammo should be placed in Victor's Shack, with the 10mm Pistol either having to be bought in Klamath or scavenged from the Underground Rat Caves. This is under the assumption that the 9mm Mauser lost its Weapon Accurate Perk as well as its lower AP cost which makes it typical of a handgun.
The last thing I want to bring up is Balthas the Tanner in Modoc. I'm pretty sure this is simply because this is still a work in progress, but I do find it weird that he can teach you to craft Metal Armor Mk I/II while at the same time not able to teach you to make Combat Leather Jackets, considering he makes you one for bringing back his son. It would be better to give the ability to teach Metal Armor Crafting to an NPC from Broken Hills or Abbey, the former because it's a prospering mining town that isn't reached too early like Redding, and the latter because of that one dude that gives Marcus some Metal Armor.
Anyway, that's most of the suggestions I want to give, food for thought you know. I'm certain the Metal Armor teacher in Balthas isn't final. Likewise, maybe a buff to the Mk II Leather and Mk II Metal Armors just a bit to make them a bit more worth it as upgrades?
That's the majority of suggestions, I think you should consider lowering the AP cost to the Deagle and 14mm Pistol to make them more viable, especially the Desert Eagle. You are doing really good work with this mod, so many of your changes and additions fit the game well and feel like they were always meant to be part of the game back when it was released. Please take the vast majority of these suggestions as mere food for thought. I cannot wait to see your future updates, and what new traps, food items, or recipes you may add if there is room for more, as well as any more config options or content in general.
Lower the AP cost to fire the Desert Eagle and 14mm Pistol from 5 to 4 to keep the mod's consistency in having pistols cost fewer action points to make up for their inferior range, accuracy, and destructive output compared to their long-arm/burst-capable/heavyweight counterparts that use the same ammo type. The Deagle and Sig Sauer are hefty guns, but they are made obsolete by the Repeater and 14mm SMG respectively. What's worse, the 44 Deagle winds up getting outdone by the 44 Magnum, they always seemed so heavily locked to each other in competition given that they share the same caliber and are obtained as early as The Den, the only real difference is that once has better range and the other boasts higher raw damage. But the Deagle costing more AP makes the Magnum an easy winner between the two. You should not only make the Deagle cost 4 AP to fire but also reduce the extended magazine upgrade from 14 to 12. Both of the upgrades for the Deagle and Magnum accomplish the same thing, making reloading less of a hassle. To fire 12 shots and reload(twice for Speed Load Magnum and once for Ext Mag Deagle if it had 12 ammo capacity) it would cost 52 AP in exact total, which is why the ext mag should be further reduced to 12 shots rather than 14. I never was bothered by how neck-and-neck the two 44-caliber handguns were, so the simple solution of making them near equal in usage seems like a better and simpler solution.
As for the 14mm Pistol, it's very strong but still outmatched by any energy pistol, and assuming you got rid of its "Weapon Accurate" perk to ensure that pistols fulfill their roles as inaccurate, lower range, but AP cost-effective it seems like it would be fair to reduce the firing cost down to 4 AP. I can understand the 223 Pistol costing 5 action points, it's terrifyingly powerful for a small gun, is loud as hell, and even has the "Penetrate" perk, it can easily contend, and in certain hands, outdo a Hunting Rifle. So it would likely be fine if it remains as is currently, but please consider the 14mm Sig Sauer.
A few other AP cost changes could include the Gauss Pistol(too low AP cost) and the same with the Drum Mag Grenade Launcher. Its high capacity gives it a very strong advantage considering the Grenade Rifle and Missile Launcher can only fire once before having to reload. Perhaps you should up the AP cost and reduce its range or damage a bit.
Throwing Knives cost too much AP to throw, it should be lowered to match that of grenades. The current cost of throwing large spears(sharpened or otherwise) would be better justified if their damage output matched the amount if they were used in melee. I guess they do not factor in the melee damage stat from your player character if it's possible to factor in melee damage determined by Strength or Heavy Handed Trait it would make them much more viable, they seem to do little damage despite their better armor piercing abilities, which is easily done by thrusting the other melee/unarmed weapons anyways. You gave Throwing Knives a very good critical chance and damage modifiers, likewise, you should remove that benefit for thrown spears and replace it for raw damage that factors in melee damage if such a thing is possible.
Maybe for the sake of the poor sods that didn't choose melee, unarmed, or even throwing as their Tag skills, you could buff the Zip Gun and Tube Rifle in some way. Maybe give the Tube Rifle the "Penetrate" perk for use against Golden Geckos and Mole Rats, and the Zip Gun should be the exception that uses "Weapon Accurate", this gives both single-shot weapons some sort of longevity. It would make an interesting combo for those willing to rotate their shots between the two or whatever combination they decide.
Maybe make the Taser show up a bit earlier as well? I also remember Fallout 1's Zip Gun realized in Fallout 1 Et Tu which is meant to be an early game energy pistol, just rename it to something like "Beam Pistol".
Another aspect that should be looked into is the fact that the 9mm SMG does less damage than the 10mm SMG, but the 9mm Mauser does more damage than the 10mm Pistol. The damage stats should be reverted to match the consistency of damage output according to the caliber. Perhaps the 9mm Mauser and some ammo should be placed in Victor's Shack, with the 10mm Pistol either having to be bought in Klamath or scavenged from the Underground Rat Caves. This is under the assumption that the 9mm Mauser lost its Weapon Accurate Perk as well as its lower AP cost which makes it typical of a handgun.
The last thing I want to bring up is Balthas the Tanner in Modoc. I'm pretty sure this is simply because this is still a work in progress, but I do find it weird that he can teach you to craft Metal Armor Mk I/II while at the same time not able to teach you to make Combat Leather Jackets, considering he makes you one for bringing back his son. It would be better to give the ability to teach Metal Armor Crafting to an NPC from Broken Hills or Abbey, the former because it's a prospering mining town that isn't reached too early like Redding, and the latter because of that one dude that gives Marcus some Metal Armor.
Anyway, that's most of the suggestions I want to give, food for thought you know. I'm certain the Metal Armor teacher in Balthas isn't final. Likewise, maybe a buff to the Mk II Leather and Mk II Metal Armors just a bit to make them a bit more worth it as upgrades?
That's the majority of suggestions, I think you should consider lowering the AP cost to the Deagle and 14mm Pistol to make them more viable, especially the Desert Eagle. You are doing really good work with this mod, so many of your changes and additions fit the game well and feel like they were always meant to be part of the game back when it was released. Please take the vast majority of these suggestions as mere food for thought. I cannot wait to see your future updates, and what new traps, food items, or recipes you may add if there is room for more, as well as any more config options or content in general.
@phobos2077 Never heard about this mod before till @gustarballs1983 mentioned via DeKRuS's Fallout2MechanicsMiniRework (which is compatible with EcCo) in Fallout 1.5: Resurrection thread. Looks really promising.
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@fuzzi
Looks Like I've got to striaghten up some of those ejaculate posts of yours..
1. I never said anything about EcCo beeing compatible with Fo1,5: Resurrection. It's probably *not*. EcCo is most likely only for Fo2 Restoration Project/RPU.
2. I did *not* mention EcCo at all in mentioning of F2MechanicsMiniRework, in that Resurection mod post, so straight up his is fake news..
So please don't spread misinformation further..
Looks Like I've got to striaghten up some of those ejaculate posts of yours..
1. I never said anything about EcCo beeing compatible with Fo1,5: Resurrection. It's probably *not*. EcCo is most likely only for Fo2 Restoration Project/RPU.
2. I did *not* mention EcCo at all in mentioning of F2MechanicsMiniRework, in that Resurection mod post, so straight up his is fake news..
So please don't spread misinformation further..
@gustarballs1983 Sorry, my mistake in previous message formulation - I didn't mean that this way. I mean that DeKRuS's Fallout2MechanicsMiniRework is compatible with Fallout 1.5: Resurrection not EcCo. I want say in previous message, that I discovered EcCo Gameplay Overhaul mod through DeKRuS's Fallout2MechanicsMiniRework (as you mentioned it in FO 1.5 thread). I checked F2MMR GitHub repository and see in compatibility section some (for me) "unknown" EcCo mod. After that I checked GitHub repository of EcCo mod and realize that it is quite interesting mod. I also understand from documentation, that EcCo is only compatible with RPU.
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Ok..
If You're still willing for another Resurection Playthrough.. You may want to check Resurrection thread, i managed to make some modifications of my own.
1.certain crafter now makes as many of his stuff as you have ingredients, not only one of each.
2. good karma party members now get up to 7 levels ( previously it was up to 6) and level every 1 player level ( was every 2 player levels)