Fallout 2 mod Economy and Combat Rebalance mod

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by phobos2077, Oct 3, 2010.

  1. phobos2077

    phobos2077 A Smooth-Skin

    Apr 24, 2010
    In short, this is a conservative gameplay overhaul compatible with RP 2.3.2 (as of v0.2.1) and RP 2.3.3 (as of v0.5.2)..

    Main goals:

    - add more challenge to the combat, barter and other aspects of the game (but without mandatory hardcore)
    - fix some stuff of the Restoration Project as well as vanilla game which I feel were broken
    - add more variety to the gameplay, mainly to the combat (but in line with original game design, you won't see OP weapons or other unicorns here).
    - keep everything as modular as possible, so the players can configure everything to their liking and modders can re-use parts of this mod in their own

    Main Highlights.

    Economy Rebalance:

    - Barter skill now more useful:
    - prices in stores are affected stronger by skill at lower barter levels and less at higher, using arctangent function
    - selling prices are finally increase as Barter skill increase, they also affected by player charisma and merchant skill
    - some items are in greater or lower demand in certain towns, you can trade for profit if you skilled enough
    - prices are highly customizable via INI
    - raise money by selling new types of monster parts or by doing several new quests (see details)
    - reduced/made harder to get some critically-overpowered loot in several locations

    Combat Rebalance:
    - weapons and ammo rebalanced to add realism and more difference between various types of weaponry,
    while staying as close as possible to vanilla (the point is not to re-invent weapons, but to improve existing ones)
    - amount of ammo in game is reduced
    - energy weapons made more effective against lesser armors, and laser weapons made more powerfull
    - new melee weapons for Melee skill to be viable in mid-game
    - throwing weapons expanded and made much more usefull with skill-based damage bonus for blades, much deadlier grenades and new weapons
    - Bozar is now a large caliber sniper rifle (as it should be), firing new rare and expensive .50 rounds
    - double-barrel shotguns now have proper duplet mode with new sound and single-shot animation (optional)
    - slight ballance changes to armor
    - several critters in the game have much better stats now (like weak types of Deathclaws and large scorpions)
    - new stealth elements: blackjack and sneak attack

    Game Progression changes:
    - included gameflow fixes by Lujo: Small changes which should help integrate some of the RP restored content to the original game. A few hooks for some of the content, a new scouting quest in Vault City, and adjustments to the Vault Village quest.
    - some gangs made tougher (Metzgers, Salvatores, Vault 15 raiders)
    - redesigned entrances to the Raiders hideout for more challange and variety
    - reduced unbalanced EXP rewards for several quests
    (more to come...)

    Crafting System:

    - Revamped version of Mr. Fixit mod included (more user friendly)
    - existing schematics rebalanced, new added
    - several new items to craft: new ammo types, home-made grenade, new drugs, traps
    - unlockable crafting groups (explosives, drugs, electronics, etc.), you need to find teacher for each group

    Traps System:
    - installable traps: "melee" type spike trap, explosive mine and sensor mine
    - explosive traps are customized by arming them with any type of explosives or grenades

    New Quests:
    - a couple of random-encounter-based "Bounty Hunt" quests
    - a couple of "Bring X items" quests

    v0.6.2 (installer: everything is optional)

    - Mr.Fixit v1.1 was taken and slightly expanded with better hi-res support and some new features
    - All crafting rules was rewritten with new "better" balance and variaty, including new game items
    - All "schematics" are divided into several categories, you need to find teacher for each category (there is no spoiler here, so try to
    find them on your own. I will only say that they all around northern half of the world...)
    - Knowing schematics not enough, to start crafting you need tools, skills and components
    - Some craftable food
    - Crafting menu is accessible by doing description of player or with a hotkey: Ctrl+C.

    > TRAPS:
    - to use traps you need to craft a Trap Kit first (need explosive schematics for mines and electronics for sensor mine)
    - then, put trap in your active hand slot and use it ON your character (or just press Ctrl+1 hotkey) - it will place trap on the ground below (not yet armed)
    - use Traps skill on trap to arm it.
    - for mines: you can use any explosive from inventory on the floor trap tile; if you just use "Traps" skill on them, the game will first try to arm it with last used explosive type, and then with any explosive found in your inventory.
    - you need to pass traps skill check to successfully arm the trap, if you are bad enough, you may end up blowing yourself.
    - you can dismantle any trap (both armament and trap kit will return to your inventory) just Using them or using Traps Skill on them.
    - number of traps is not limited
    - spike traps can be used a couple of times (it loses one "charge" when someone steps on it)
    - there are INI-configurable friend-or-foe system (by default dude and party members are ignored by your traps)
    - when using spike traps, damage formula is: 7-14 (when traps skill is 0~40), max damage is increased up to 40, by 1 for each 3 skill points (7-40 at 120% skill).
    - when using explosives, explosion damage is approximately equal to damage when using those items normally; damage type is also derived from item (EMP for Pulse grenade, Fire for Molotov, etc.)
    - sensor mines detect movement on 1 tile radius. If critter passes just near the trap and don't step on it, there is a very small chance trap won't go off.

    > PRICES:
    - Selling prices are affected by skill. (at lower levels prices may drop as low as 10% from their normal margin). This way, if you wanna get rich by selling weapons, upgrade your Barter or you'll need to sell many times more than before.
    - Buying prices use vanilla formula as a base (with all kind of things effecting it, like perks or bad merchant reaction) and multiplies it slightly with arctangent kind of function (example graph in sources folder, for more info study barter.ini)
    - Some misc. items prices was adjusted for early game so you can make some money in hardest parts (high prices for gecko pelts and scorpion tails in Klamath, etc.)
    - There are several alternative formulas to choose from and many coefficients to tweak (read and modify barter.ini)

    - there is chance a weapon will get destroyed when critter dies (except unique and rare weapons; optional)
    - corpses are stripped from some percent of ammo and stimpaks (optional)
    - Loot slightly reduced in S.A.D, Hubologist Stash, Toxic Caves
    - EPA: loot rearranged/reduced somewhat; room with most powerful stuff at security level will be harder to get in
    - it is harder to steal from Redding doctor now
    - slosed rooms in Bishop club are harder to get in

    - craft learning (see "crafting" section)
    - one of the trappers in Klamath can now teach you gecko skinning (not free)
    - kill groups of robbers near Redding
    - hunt down several rogues throughout the wastelend, one-by-one (NCR)
    - bring a number of hides to Modoc tannery
    - bring a number of tentacles to NCR doctor

    > AMMO:
    - AP and FMJ do less base damage then JHP (unarmored critters), but is very effective against armored targets (thanks to YAAM)
    - Penetrating power of AP ammo in ASCENDING order:
    10mm AP / .223 FMJ
    Small energy cell (energy pistols)
    5mm AP / .44 FMJ
    7.62x51 / Micro-fusion cell (energy rifles and minigun)
    4.7mm caseless
    14mm AP : ignores any armor up to Combat Armor
    .50 BMG
    2mm GAUSS / AP Rocket : make Power Armor user defenceless

    - Changed pack size of following ammo types (to balance the total amount of that ammo in game, creating the need of purchase)
    [caliber] - [pack size] ([vanilla pack size])
    10mm - 20 (24)
    12ga - 12 (20)
    .44 - 12 (20)
    14mm - 12 (20)
    5mm - 40 (50)
    7.62 - 20 (20) - unchanged
    .45 - 50 (50) - unchanged
    .223 - 30 (50)
    SEC - 20 (40)
    MFC - 20 (50)
    4.7mm- 40 (50)
    2mm - 10 (20)

    - weight and cost was rebalanced as well
    - to further reduce "ammo swimming", all dying critters are stripped from some amount of ammo (optional), see MISC section
    - ammo now occupies space, so you cannot store unlimited ammo in car trunk (increased trunk capacity by 20% to balance that)
    - HE Rocket is extremely powerfull, but AP Rocket penetrates like gauss
    - .50 ammo caliber and ammo type added (used only in new Bozar)
    - new ammo types: 12ga Slugs, .223AP, 14mm JHP (crafting)

    - All shotguns: the max damage is much higher (min dmg is almost the same), wich makes them very deadly against unarmored critters, but cannot penetrate heavy armor and limited in range.
    - 2 barrel shotguns have a duplet (burst) firing mode with single shot animation.
    - All pistols (including energy pistols): cost 4 AP to shoot (That's what pistols are for in real life - shoot faster), but have smaller firing range and not near as powerfull as rifles.
    - Bozar is what it should be - single-shot anti-materiel rifle, uses new .50 BMG ammo (penetrate most armor), need 7 STR and has very high damage. For machinegunning use LSW or M60 instead.
    - Sniper Rifle is much more powerful, rechambered "back" to 7.62
    - M60 is a true machinegun: more powerful with 100 rounds ammo capacity (like in RL).
    - Almost every weapon was subjectively improved (main concerns were: more realism, more interesting balance between weapons, taking new ammo behaviour into account, BUT not going too far from vanilla stats, except those weapons mentioned specifically).

    - taser
    - 40mm grenade launchers (two types) with two types of grenades
    - 9mm SMG in some random encounters

    - all energy weapons has higher penetration (rifles better than pistols), so now only the best armor can provide strong protection against Laser or Plasma rifles
    - Laser weapons are more powerful and armor laser resistance was changed (see below).
    - "Real" Turbo Plasma rifle, costs 4 AP for shot (max damage reduced a bit).
    - strong single-shot energy weapons now spend more than 1 cell round for each shot

    > Some examples of ballance between some weapons of comparable class:
    - 10mm Pistol vs 10mm SMG (for single shots): Pistol is faster (4AP) but has reduced range and slightly less damage
    - .44 Magnum vs Desert Eagle: first has more power, second is more accurate and long-ranged
    - 14mm Pistol does less damage than legendary .223 Pistol, but has more penetration
    - Laser pistol and 14mm Pistol are comparable but Laser will better penetrate most armour types except metal armor. 14mm ammo is superb against any armor.
    - Assault rifle vs FN FAL: high rate of fire (deadly at close range) vs heavy and piercing 7.62x51 ammo (much more damage than vanilla)
    - HK CAWS vs Pancor Jackhammer: first has more range, fires 3-shot burst (like RL); second is low-range, uneconomical due to larger burst, but extremely deadly
    - Light Support Weapon (.223) is less deadly than M60 (7.62mm), but has better accuracy and single-shot mode

    - all grenades was made more powerfull:
    plasma: 60 - 100
    frag: 35 - 60
    molotov: 15 - 35
    - EMP grenade now can do damage to a man in Power armor (enclave patrols included), due to electro-mechanical nature of this suit
    - Home-made grenade can be crafted, it is worse than regular frag, but still powerful

    - Throwing skill now affects damage for all throwing weapons (except grenades), precise formula:
    dmgMax := floor(dmgMax * (1 + skill / 100.0));
    So basically, you get 2x maximum damage with 100% skill, 3x damage with 200% and so on. It only affects maximum damage.
    - Stats for throwing weapons were improved to make them more useful.
    - Throwing Axe - new weapon was added. It's a more powerful replacement for throwing knife for mid-late game combat. Can be bought later in game.
    - Molotov Cocktail, while still making visual explosion like frag grenade, now actually inflicts fire damage and does not knockback targets (it's not explosion after all).

    - The cost of the unarmed special attacks has been lowered to 4 for punches and 5 for kicks (taken from Weapons Redone mod).
    - Super sledge takes 4,5 AP instead of 3,4 (same as regular sledge; no logical explaination of "faster swing").
    - Wakizashi blade is much more powerful.
    - new weapons: piston spear and spiked sledge

    > ARMOR:
    - Armor class was lowered considerably for power armours. AC affects hit chance, the more the AC, the more probable is to miss. It was not looking right when soldiers in big and heavy power armor appeared like they are extremely agile, because power armor is big, it should be easier to hit such target (but actual damage resistance remains the same).
    - Laser resistance changed: leather - zero protection, combat - mediocre, metal - good, power armor & tesla - great protection
    - Power Armor user can now take damage from EMP grenades
    - all changes to armor affect appropriate critters as well

    - some "lesser" critters made tougher: Tough Giant Ant, Large radscorpion, Deathclaws, Mole Rat. (they are rare on early maps and were way too weak)
    - new monster parts dropped from critters: Death Claw, Mole Rat Hide, Wanamingo Hand, Mutant Tentacle

    > QUESTS and NPCs:
    - Lidya in VC rewards 500 for shipment of alcohol (was 300)
    - better reward for VC plow quest
    - Algernon need rest after work and don't spawn ammo in guns
    - Trappers in random encounters now sell pelts through standard barter dialog only, but with high discount
    - see Lujo Gameflow fixes mod for more information on additional changes

    - added new items to several shopkeepers
    - added some crafting components (mainly junk) to general stores
    - Cash tender in Redding now offers cash from 1000 to 7000 depending on player's current level (that should be someone to sell all your stuff to)
    - changed some merchants stock to offer some new items and more ammo for purchase

    - weapon loadouts were adjusted in respect to new weapon balance
    - most new weapons are used by people in the wasteland
    - throwing weapons will be used against you more often

    > MISC:
    - some mine traps in the game became more dangerous
    - nerfed slot jinxer perk: slots break for month instead of 1 day, high rollers give 2/5 of initial money and there is a luck-based chance to fail. You can still become insanely rich by gambling.
    - nerfed gambling dice: you can win maximum about 1000-5000 caps per table, per week (that's still a LOT of money)
    - people drop their weapon to the ground in front of them when they die (optional)
    - stimpaks radiate upon use (optional)
    - drugs cost action points to use, even from inventory (first couple of uses are free though) - optional
    - Bonus Rate of Fire perk was removed (all pistols were completely OP if you take it, especially with the appropriate Trait)
    - Hakunin dreams can be delayed, so they happen at more appropriate pace (RP has more content...) - optional
    - added Traps and Barter skill books to the game

    Look for changelog inside.

    Last edited: Feb 8, 2015
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  2. utunnels

    utunnels First time out of the vault

    Aug 2, 2010
    If armor can be destroy or worn out, it would be more realistic.


    As for weapon, I'm not sure, a sharpened pole is easy to break, but a gun can be used for years, hmm.
  3. .Pixote.

    .Pixote. Antediluvian as Feck

    Sep 14, 2009
    Go for it phobos2077...I'm very much interested in the barter side of this mod, it would be nice to see the PC struggle a lot more in regards to making money...by the way you have about 120% in the gamble skill, and hit the tables you have a very good chance of succeeding in the vast majority of bets, that's the reward you get for a "useless" skill. So there will always be ways of making money in the game regardless of item prices.
  4. Makenshi

    Makenshi Ahoy, ye salty dogs!

    Jul 28, 2006
    If the player should struggle for money so much the entire game (not bad), then at least the price to get Sulik and Vic should be lowered. Having to pay for allies is already an outrageous concept, mainly Vic for 1000 coins. No slave is that valueable, specially a not-awesome guy; if he was like Cassidy, at least...


    A way to get Vic for free could be provided, a quest maybe. Just like Sulik is for free is we save that hunter dude in toxic caves.
  5. .Pixote.

    .Pixote. Antediluvian as Feck

    Sep 14, 2009
    Killing the slavers seems to work... :mrgreen:
  6. Not Lost Hope

    Not Lost Hope First time out of the vault

    Mar 26, 2010
    In addition to tinkering with the barter skill you should lower the value of guns. Seems counter-intuitive but most (pretty much all) of what the player has to offer for the merchants is guns from enemies killed in random encounters. It doesn't matter what sort of penalties you put in bartering when a H&K CAWS sells for 4750$ (midgame) and a pulse pistol sells for 12000$(lategame).
  7. phobos2077

    phobos2077 A Smooth-Skin

    Apr 24, 2010
    2Not Lost Hope:

    Is it says in first post I already did that, lowered the selling prices of ALL items, including weapons. Also, I tweaked prices of such items (returned them closer to default), that you normally wouldn't need to buy, but only sell (like golden necklace or fuzzy paining and gecko pelts of course) for exactly the reason of giving opportunity to make money early in game.
  8. Makenshi

    Makenshi Ahoy, ye salty dogs!

    Jul 28, 2006
    It does... when I have Sulik+Cassidy and stuff like metal armor. Just Sulik and 10mm pistols won't do these days, and with mods making the game even harder it will become even thougher (tried Magnum's weapon mod? againt Tyler gang, it's either headshot or no damage at all)
  9. Not Lost Hope

    Not Lost Hope First time out of the vault

    Mar 26, 2010
    Ah okay, I did click on the spoiler and read but guess I somehow missed that line. Also what you said seems like a good idea of not making the early game totally ridiculous, as even in the original game money isn't too common in the early on, seems you have to search every nook and cranny to get enough cash for two leather armors for you and Sulik.
  10. phobos2077

    phobos2077 A Smooth-Skin

    Apr 24, 2010
    I think I've found a solution to divide the economy and combat part of the mod.

    Economy rebalance can be shipped with:
    - altered version of Nirran's Barter mod
    - a exe program that will automatically change all items in proto folder, altering prices ONLY (installing the "snapshot" of item prices of my mod). That will, however, require every single item .PRO file to be in ITEMS folder, rather than in MASTER.DAT...

    how's the idea?
  11. memetics

    memetics ☢ Mysterious Stranger ☢

    Jan 2, 2009
    I would like to try out such a mod; I'd love to see more economic game balance - or even a way to adjust the balance to make it harder or easier, as one wishes - but starting with a baseline like you're working out.

    To solve the gambling workaround, it could work a lot more like real gambling: the house always has an edge, except for games of skill (like blackjack or poker), where you can gain a slight edge. In other words, setting a cap on your odds of winning vs. losing that's closer to what "real" odds would be - Gambling skill > 100 would be needed to overcome the house advantage slightly, but only slightly (max, say, a few %). That way one can grind out the wins but still risks an unlucky streak, and in any case, it takes a lot of in-game time to make a living as a grinder.

    To solve the guns-selling workaround, what about diminishing returns? Could you rig it so the merchants pay less per gun depending on how many of that kind of gun they already have in inventory? Merchant: "I already have twenty 10mm pistols; why would I want another one? Well, okay; you look desperate. How's ten caps sound?" :-) You could still sell guns, but at diminishing returns or have to travel farther (to find new merchants) to sell them. Kind of like the caravans and merchants really would have to do: finding new markets, moving goods out of the oversaturated markets.



    p.s. That was all a one-shot rough draft of thoughts; please take them as ideas and not finished proposals. :cool: -m
  12. Lazlo

    Lazlo Still Mildly Glowing

    Dec 15, 2008
    I like the idea of splitting it up into economic/weapon balance modules. I like Weapons Redone too much to let it go, even though I prefer some of your changes. Particularly the low AP pistols.

    If I could weigh in, I'd also suggest you increase the weight of all weapons and armours, and make ammo spawn in much lower stacks.
  13. smilodom

    smilodom Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Apr 17, 2008
    A food and water mod could solve many problems of hoarding items to sell them later to the merchands...then the dude has to keep more meat and water than weapons and ammo....

    Just my two cents...
  14. phobos2077

    phobos2077 A Smooth-Skin

    Apr 24, 2010
    2memetics: Good idea about decreasing selling prices depending on amount of that weapon in store, but currently have no idea on how to make it happen.

    2Lazlo: Weapons redone is what this mod was based on in the first place, so maybe you check out the changes in the first post and see things the way I do?

    About ammo in lower stacks - already done.

    2smilodom: Food&water mod would be perfect! Just have to wait and see if some good people will create one :-)

    I have given a great rethinking about stats of some weapons, ammo and prices. Better check the first post details.

    Also, as the playtesting continues, I'm close to release of full-featured mod. I think, at first, it will be a simple zip-archive. All features at once, and only installable on Restoration Project 2.x game.
    Later I may create an installer with separate options of economy, ammo & weapons changes.

    Town reputation NOW affects prices in all stores!
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  15. Jotisz

    Jotisz Mildly Dipped

    Aug 28, 2007
    This mod sounds good I'm looking forward to this
  16. Lazlo

    Lazlo Still Mildly Glowing

    Dec 15, 2008
    So what's the ETA on this little beauty?
  17. John B.

    John B. Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Sep 24, 2010
    I'd guess somewhere between the release of fallout new Vegas, and fallout extreme.
  18. phobos2077

    phobos2077 A Smooth-Skin

    Apr 24, 2010
    What is fallout extreme?

    ETA I think one RL week ;)

    Rewritten the barter formula AGAIN, now you can choose (via ini file) from formula as described in first post and the vanilla price with multipliers (more info in barter.ini). This way you can expect almost the same balance in prices, and also barter_mod is considered, which set in scripts. For example: Renesco in New Reno. If you persuade him, you still get 50% discount.

    What's the exact difference from the vanilla?
    - Buying prices can be several times higher then selling (fully configurable)
    - Barter skill and charisma MAY have much greater difference on prices (ex.: prices halfed on barter 150)
    - Different prices in different shops (merchant barter skill)
    - Town reputation MAY give a discount (I prefer not use this one, though)
  19. Michi

    Michi First time out of the vault

    Dec 7, 2009
    Can we make sure that it will be compaible with the MegMod as well?
  20. .Pixote.

    .Pixote. Antediluvian as Feck

    Sep 14, 2009
    Is this mod ready for testing yet (oh one week to wait)...I think certain aspects would fit into the RP nicely. But will the different aspects of the mod i.e: weapons and bartering, be separate scripts, so we can test each aspect separately. :)