energy weapon ammo wtf

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by NMLevesque, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    618
    Jul 2, 2016
    What are small energy cells? They're not fission or fusion, so I guess an electric battery is a fair assumption? Isn't that what an electron charge pack is? Then why do SECs have more energy in them than ECPs (going by conversion recipes)? And what about the recycling and conversion recipes? Do you just have an unlimited supply of empty (I want to say) cartridges for each type on hand? Like how 1 fission battery and 5 drained SEC creating 25 SEC materializes 20 empty SECs to 'fill up'. I take it the they all have leftover energy in them, which sort of begs the question of why they weren't designed to drain anywhere close to fully (e.g 1/3rd leftover for SEC). I feel like I had more questions but sleep is calling.
     
  2. Risewild

    Risewild Carbon Dated and Proud
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Yes, they are electrical batteries, just like the ones we use in our remote controllers or some RC toys.

    In classic Fallout games, they are like a futuristic D battery "2 pack":
    Classic Fallout's Small Energy Cell:

    D Batteries:


    Energy cells in Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas are like a futuristic AAA Battery "3 pack":

    AAA Batteries:


    The rest is reading too much while trying to apply logic into what Obsidian considered balanced for their view of the game.

    Basically they just wanted people to be able to use ammo and turn it into different ammo, so the players could always get enough ammo to use their favorite weapons.
    That was also the reason they made repair so much more forgiving than in FO3 while giving the player tools to make it pretty much negligible (Repair kits and Jury Rigging Perk).
    They wanted the player to be able to use whatever weapon the player wanted without much restrictions (ammo and durability).
     
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  3. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    618
    Jul 2, 2016
    If we aren't here to read too much into things then what are we even doing. lol

    Edit: just remembered my other question. Loading 24 SEC into a sonic emitter...where do they all fit??!?!
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
  4. Ediros

    Ediros Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    921
    Feb 4, 2016
    Good question, let me counter it with: Where does bugthesda laser minigun hold 100 ECP? The reload animation is just idiotic and don't remind me of current minigun, which is just stupid. Both have got giant backpacks that serve no fucking purpose.

    Also the same can be applied to number of other weapons:

    a)Holorifle - can only hold up to 4 MFC, ejects each one after firing.
    b)Plasma Rifle holds 24 of them in a single MFC on the bottom of the gun? Where do they fit?
    c)Elijah Laser.
    d)Tesla Cannon, where you put to 24 on a single ECP.

    There are tons of examples. I believe it mostly comes down to applying bugthesda logic to Fallout. Obisidian made many new weapons far more accurate, but even they could not escape it - Plasma caster.

    Ultimately, it comes down to gameplay vs lore of the established universe (not realism, applying our laws to Fallout universe, doesn't work).
     
  5. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Think of the energy cells as the energy equivalent of a magazine. The ammo counter shows you how many shots a weapon can pull from a single physical cell, not the amount of cells. So the Sonic Emitter can fire 24 shots from a single SEC, the Holorifle can pull 4 from a single MFC, and the plasma rifle can do 24 from one. So basically, since the Holorifle does 80 damage compared to the plasma rifle's 47, it makes sense that it requires more energy from the MFC. On the other hand, it uses six times as much energy per shot but only does less than twice as much damage, so it's less efficient than the plasma rifle.
    In the end, though, it's just gameplay and balancing. It was the same in the oiginal Fallouts. You didn't put ten physical MFCs into the plasma rifle, or use like a hundred physical cells to charge your car. Energy cells are always awkward to accurately represent.
     
  6. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    618
    Jul 2, 2016
    Yeah but how would you solve it for a future game?

    I can think that, but doesn't it take 24 SEC from inventory when you reload? I never check. As far as headcanon, if ammo had a variable charge then one cell could represent 24 SEC, but then I'd have to wonder why I can't stick an SEC with a 24 charge into a weapon that only takes 5. They would be pretty damned versatile, so I can't imagine it would overload anything. If there were clips and mags stuffed with them, which you could empty and refill that would work too.
     
  7. Hassknecht

    Hassknecht For hate's sake. Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Aug 16, 2010
    Look at it this way, from a rough estimate I did some time ago with classic Fallout laser rifle.
    Consider the laser rifle firing laser pulses at 5 kJ per pulse. It has 12 shots per "magazine" and it looks like it holds one physical MFC device.
    Let's say the laser rifle has an efficiency of 50%, so from this the single MFC has 120 kJ in it.
    That same MFC goes into the plasma rifle. The plasma rifle only has ten shots, but it does more damage as well (let's round it up to 1.5x as much, so let's say it's 7.5 kJ per plasma bolt). The plasma rifle only gets ten shots out of this single MFC, so with the increased damage it'd mean it's 63% efficient.
    So the same physical microfusion cell represents 10 shots in the plasma rifle and 12 shots in the laser rifle. The number in your inventory represents the total number of shots possible with those energy cells you have (but not the number of physical cells you have).
     
  8. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    618
    Jul 2, 2016
    That still makes the counter inconsistent though. If you have 10 MFCs (according to the counter), that's a full mag for the laser rifle but not for the plasma rifle. So you would still have to load more (of something) into the plasma rifle. Either more cells, or one with more fuel (I guess since it's fusion). Both options lead to weirdness. Cell slots of infinite holding which usually render the cells nonexistent, or arbitrary total fuel level needs and an a way to change fuel levels on the fly. It would be so much easier if they ammo was smaller and could be stuffed into a magazine in different amounts...
     
  9. Einhanderc7

    Einhanderc7 Vat dipped, grown and still oozing with perfection

    858
    Apr 22, 2016
    I'm honestly surprised the player isn't given the option to daisy chain the batteries to make larger magazines. Would have made a great weapon mod for energy weapons in my opinion.

    Another thing to consider is the inherent nature of a battery operated weapon. Charge loss is natural for batteries when unused, and trying to guess the amount of shots for each battery would be difficult. From my perspective I think the counters are viable, consider it as if that is the maximum amount you can justifiably use before the batter runs out. It may have more charge, but the counter is the most efficient use of the available power.

    Although I was always thought that it was quite confusing that the player can make the various energy ammo types without the use of basic electronic equipment such as a multi meter, at a work bench...

    As for Bethesda's take on energy weapons, I'm honestly at a loss on how much of their "weapons" confound me.
     
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