Extra traits

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Timeslip, May 17, 2008.

  1. Timeslip

    Timeslip Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    921
    Aug 15, 2007
    This mod adds a set of extra optional traits. It started life as an sfall scripting example, but I think it's big enough to get its own proper release now, for anyone looking for a bit more variety in the characters they play with.

    I couldn't work out how to modify the character creation screen, so the extra traits are handled like perks in that you have to pick them from the character screen after character creation but before levelling up for the first time.

    There's currently 10 extras: low gravity, ironwall, swift, jack of all trades, rapid learner, diligent learner, cautious pickpocket, brazen thief, perfect aim and pathetic aim. There's still room for more if anyone has any other ideas. (And kudos to anyone who can work out exactly what they all do. :P)

    Obviously sfall is required; you need v1.25 or later, so the versions bundled with Killaps patch and F2RP won't work. (You can just switch out the bundled ddraw.dll with the new one without causing any problems.) It should be compatible with most other mods too; the only exception are mods that make use of any of the 5 unused perk slots.

    Download link is at the bottom of this page.
     
  2. JOG

    JOG First time out of the vault

    36
    Dec 17, 2007
    Nice work!

    Any chance for a documentation of the extra traits?

    BTW:
    Sfall's graphics mode 0 doesn't seem to be the standard 8 bit anymore, at least the movies are blurred like in the Dx9 modes.
     
  3. Timeslip

    Timeslip Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    921
    Aug 15, 2007
    Documentation? You were supposed to work it out for yourself, you cheater. :P

    Actually, it's just that I couldn't remember what half of the traits did myself, but I'm sitting in front of the script now so I guess I can share.

    • low gravity: All critters get knocked back 3x as far as usual.
    • ironwall: player looses 1 ap, is immune to knockbacks. (But not to knock downs.)
    • swift: +2 ap, 0 sequence
    • rapid learner: -1 to all stats except luck, x2 xp.
    • jack of all trades: +20 to all skills, can't advance any skill above 150
    • diligent learner: -10% xp, you can pick perks 2 tiers above normal.
    • cautious pickpocket: alters the maximum stealing chance, removes the 95% cap on the chance of success.
    • brazen thief: Gives a pickpocket bonus of 3x your charisma, sets a cap of 80% on your chance of success.
    • perfect aim: removes the 95% cap on combat accuracy for all critters.
    • pathetic aim: sets the combat accuracy cap to 50% for all critters.

    There are only 5 empty perk slots, so the available extra traits depend on your character stats: To pick ironwall you need 9+ endurance, rapid learner needs 4+ in all stats, diligent learner needs 9+ int, brazen thief needs 8+ charisma and pathetic aim requires the jinxed trait.


    In mode 0 sfall doesn't touch the graphics at all. The graphics you get are exactly the same as what you'd get without sfall.

    Edit: Actually, it looks like there's a bug in the win xp version of 1.25 that prevents you from using mode 0. (If you pick 0 sfall ends up changing it to 4.) Will get that fixed later. The win9x version isn't affected.
     
  4. Hotel California

    Hotel California Mildly Dipped

    530
    Feb 6, 2005
    So are these like starter perks? Or is it an either or thing? I'm confused.

    You pick your characters stats, tags and traits on the character creation screen right? You have to pick two traits for it to go on right?

    Then after you've created your char you get two free? perks/new traits at the start of the game?
     
  5. Timeslip

    Timeslip Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    921
    Aug 15, 2007
    Perks are extras you get at level up which give your character an advantage. Traits are things you start with that give both an advantage and a disadvantage. These are traits, but there are no empty trait slots so they use the 5 empty perk slots instead.

    Traits are optional on the character creation screen. You don't have to pick any if you don't want to.

    No, you get one. And they aren't 'free' in that they each have a major disadvantage associated with them. (Balance issues aside. I'm not going to play through the game with each of them to see if any are overpowered...) You can pick one in addition to 2 traits on the character selection screen if you want.

    The next version of the mod will only let you pick a trait if you didn't already take two at the character creation screen.
     
  6. Mr.Wolna

    Mr.Wolna Vault Senior Citizen

    Nov 15, 2007
    hey plz make a trait with 20%more speed or seen on the world ma and extra outdooren skill!
     
  7. Lexx

    Lexx Background Radiant
    Moderator Modder

    Apr 24, 2005
    What? Why?
     
  8. Mr.Wolna

    Mr.Wolna Vault Senior Citizen

    Nov 15, 2007
    i dont know^^ i thouth like the scout skill or something!
     
  9. Hotel California

    Hotel California Mildly Dipped

    530
    Feb 6, 2005
    Any chance you can leave an option in the installer to have this one in addition to the normal two? Since the mostly negative ones (such as pathetic aim) would be good for jinxed roleplaying, but it'd be nice to have them in addition to another trait.

    A suggestion I would make is that "ironwall" seems pretty useless without the addition of immunity against knockdowns aswell. Losing 1Ap for something that happens a lot less often than knockdowns if your agility is likely to be quite low already - due to the high endurance requirement, doesn't seem so wonderful. If it were knockdowns as well it would seem like a more worthwhile trade.
     
  10. JOG

    JOG First time out of the vault

    36
    Dec 17, 2007
    @Timeslip: Got a bit curious and found some bugs:

    "choice3" (diligent learner / jack of all trades) tests for 9+ END(2) instead of INT(4)

    "choice4" (brazen thief / cautious pickpocket) tests for 8+ INT(4) instead of CHA(5)

    "diligent learner" only gives a 5% XP penalty

    And the text could use some work too :roll:

    BTW: Is there a decompiler for sfall scripts? The source Ruby created (with ASM_statements) couldn't be compiled (No, I'm too lazy to edit the ruby-scripts) so I used a Hex-Editor to patch gltstraits.int ($E29 2>4/$E9D 4>5) and checked by decompiling again.



    And for those who want to know how the selection of available traits actually works: they are organised in 5 pairs, for each pair a check on the stats determines which trait is available.

    END 9+
    Y: Ironwall: player looses 1 ap, is immune to knockbacks. (But not to knock downs.)
    N: Low gravity: All critters get knocked back 3x as far as usual.

    All stats 4+
    Y: Rapid learner: -1 to all stats except luck, x2 xp.
    N: Swift: +2 ap, 0 sequence

    INT 9+ (END 9+ in v1.1)
    Y: Diligent learner: -5% xp, you can pick perks as if you were 6 levels higher.
    N: Jack of all trades: +20 to all skills, can't advance any skill above 150

    CHA 8+ (INT 8+ in v1.1)
    Y: Brazen thief: Gives a pickpocket bonus of 3x your charisma, sets a cap of 80% on your chance of success.
    N: Cautious pickpocket: max stealing chance = half of stealing skill, removes the 95% cap (200 skill = 100% chance)

    Jinxed trait
    Y: pathetic aim: sets the combat accuracy cap to 50% for all critters.
    N: perfect aim: removes the 95% cap on combat accuracy for all critters.
     
  11. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    Is this still current?

    Besides probably being overpowered (I can see people picking it at +1 AP), how does this make sense thematically? In effect, you do more each turn, but the price is that your opponents will always get a double turn at the start of combat. Seems more like a pure meta-effect than something logically motivated by the trait concept.

    Very overpowered, as the drawback is virtually nil. Put the cap at 70% if you want people to think it over.

    Penalty almost seems too small compared to the +100% for Rapid Learner.

    Should still apply the cap after modifications, though. If it allows automatic success it's much too good.

    Doubtful.
     
  12. Timeslip

    Timeslip Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    921
    Aug 15, 2007
    Fixed. Looks like I copy/pasted and forgot to modify it afterwards...

    Nope. It shouldn't be hard to add the extra functions to a decompiler though; all the opcodes and number of arguments are given in the readme I included with the modified sslc.

    For the specific case of this mod, you could have just asked me for the uncompiled scripts... I've stuck them in with the download, since I was updating it anyway.

    @per, this is supposed to be an example of how to script with sfall. The traits are supposed to use as many sfall functions as possible, not be realistic. :P

    With +2 ap, combat would have to last at least 3 rounds to make up the difference if an opponent was able to get an attack in in the first round. You'd get an advantage in drawn out battles, and a penelty in brief ones. I suppose combat does generally last longer than that, and you've probably got far more fallout playing experience than I have, so I wont argue. Changed to +1. :P

    Isn't 70 a bit low? Sounds like it would make the late game a bit difficult... 150 is probably too high, dropped it to 100 for now, maybe it should still go a bit lower.

    Edit: Also, dropping the cap below 100 is likely to start having effects on npcs.

    The penalty is smaller, but so is the payback. Rapid learner gives -1 to all stats...

    The modifications are entirely negative. The automatic success is the payback you get for putting up with them, and requires a steal skill of 200% or more to get.

    In what way? You doubt it works, or you doubt it should exist? Like I said, designed to use as many sfall functions as possible, not to be realistic.
     
  13. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    Oh, OK.

    Shoot someone with your +2 AP, then duck behind a wall and watch them move during their double turn, assuming they aren't dead already.

    You just have to make it a tangible tradeoff. When you give someone an instant bonus for a long-term penalty, the penalty should probably be more severe in absolute terms. If this were a real mod and not a demonstration I'd argue that you'd have to treat combat and non-combat skills differently here.

    Do they all get the bonus too?

    Doubtful that it could be balanced. But anyway the effect would be that in high-level battles, no one simply doesn't ever miss. Doesn't that just make things more predictable? Such a feature of the rules set doesn't seem like something that a trait should be able to mess with.
     
  14. Timeslip

    Timeslip Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    921
    Aug 15, 2007
    Nope. I'm not 100% sure, but I think they get the cap.

    Perhaps drop the 20% bonus rather than lowering the cap then?
     
  15. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    I could see the following:

    * 5% bonus, 100% cap.
    * 10% bonus, 90% cap.
    * 20% bonus, but increase the auto-miss range by 5%.
     
  16. JOG

    JOG First time out of the vault

    36
    Dec 17, 2007
    Thanks for the sources, Timeslip... Well, I couldn't resist...

    Here is my take on new traits:

    http://home.tiscali.de/jo.ge/fo/dl/new_traits.rar


    Animal Friend
    You are a pet lover. When your four-legged friends are nearby, you flourish and anything you put your mind to sorts itself out just easily. Without a pet's company you're a little grumpy and hapeless, though.

    LK and CH: +1 to each when an animal is in the party (including Bess and Laddie), -1 when not.


    Bruiser
    A little slower, but a little bigger. You may not strike as fast, but they will feel it when you do! You're the last to act in combat sequence, but your strength is increased.

    +2 to ST, Sequence set to 0


    Kamikaze
    By not paying attention to any threats, you can act a lot faster in combat. This lowers your armor class to just what you are wearing, but your nimbleness allows you to act quick and early in combat.

    +AG/4 to Action Points, +AG/2 to Sequence, Base AC set to 0


    Night Person
    As a night-time person, you are more awake when the sun goes down. Your Intelligence and Perception are improved at night, but dulled during the day.

    PE and IN: +1 to each at night, -1 to each by day


    Vile Breath
    You are afflicted by a serious case of oral misodor. People tend to avoid your company, but your ability to dazzle your foes with a single exhalation gives you a head start in combat.

    -2 to CH, Sequence +15
     
  17. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    Isn't this concept covered just by putting more char points in ST instead of PE?

    A flat +1 would be better if you necessarily want Kamikaze to affect AP, which it thematically doesn't.

    What
     
  18. JOG

    JOG First time out of the vault

    36
    Dec 17, 2007
    Is it? PE has more important applications than sequence, on the other hand a bonus to ST is kind of pointless once you get power armor and at the same time a low sequence looses its relevance.



    Well, Kamikaze just affecting sequence is still in as a Chargen-Trait and it's still rather pointless.

    My concept for Kamikaze is that "normal" people have less action points because they automatically use some of them to get that innate dodge-bonus.

    I use AG/4 rather than a flat bonus because the higher your agility, the more AC you'll loose by taking this Trait, but this way you'll also gain more from it in return.



    :P
    This is what came to my mind when I looked at the pic for FO1's Mental Block. (The hands aren't from some mage, but from a guy who topples over) Besides being a bit weird, it seems balanced to me, both stats are just "nice to have".
     
  19. Kanhef

    Kanhef Vault Dweller

    793
    Sep 2, 2007
    Sequence +15 is of limited usefulness, but it is a funny idea.

    It would be imbalanced, but Animal Friend could give a +1 for each animal in your party. Might be better to call it 'Dog Walker' if you do that... ;)
     
  20. JOG

    JOG First time out of the vault

    36
    Dec 17, 2007
    Well, to me, it seemed almost overpowered compared to the effect of those 2 CHR points.

    When you are ambushed but win the sequence-roll, the opponent still acts before you, but looses his next round, so you'll act two times in a row as soon as it's your turn. Thus the enemy lost all advantages from the ambush, and you got the tactical advantage of being able to act two times in a row.

    1. Round - Enemy's ambush
    1. Round - Your reaction due to winning the surprise-roll
    2. Round - Your first regular turn

    2. Round - Enemy's first regular turn
    3. Round - Your second regular turn
    3. Round - Enemy's second regular turn
    ...


    Even better in a scenario where you are the attacker, win the surprise roll and are the first in combat sequence:

    1. Round - Your ambush
    2. Round - Your first regular turn

    2. Round - Enemy's first regular turn
    3. Round - Your second regular turn
    3. Round - Enemy's second regular turn
    ...

    One free round may not carry weight in large/long battles, but it can be a crucial element in small battles, especially early in the game.