Fallout (1) Perk build discussion

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by NMLevesque, Jun 29, 2017.

  1. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    I'm looking to figure out which are the best, and which are the worst. Mostly to narrow down my list of possible perks. I'm not sure I understand how they all work, partly because some of the game mechanics aren't explained anywhere that I can find.

    The following is just what I'm specifically interested in, so far. For my sneaky, small gun sniper build (I want that Red Ryder LE bb gun so bad...I wish there was some trick to getting it. Tips would be appreciated actually.)

    Bonus ranged damage (2 ranks): so base damage is only ever exceeded with criticals right? Aimed shots can only up the critical modifier, add crippling effects, or bypass armor if I understood it correctly. So does this factor into crits as well?

    Bonus move, bonus rate of fire, action boy/girl (3 ranks): bonus rate seems to add the most if you can attack twice or more per turn normally. Obviously they can all be taken, but if you're trying to get the most out of your build, and have other perks to take...which one(s)? Also would this add more offensively than alternatives given that even one extra attack can be about the same as dealing double damage?

    Are the stealth perks even useful for a stealth heavy build? I mean I can just point dump into it for better results (ghost), and I don't see why I would ever need to run while sneaking aside from wanting to save time. Btw I'm already convinced that stealth builds are fun and effective. Honestly given how easy it becomes to game the system once you have decent range is kind of hilarious sometimes. Like taking out the raiders as they come at you practically if not literally one by one.

    Sharp shooter (2 ranks): range modifiers work how exactly? I couldn't find much of any detail on the gamepdedia perception page, which seemed to be the only applicable one. Sort of wondering how often you would even benefit from this if you were already using a weapon with solid range. I imagine this would be essential or at least gamechanging for a pyromaniac.

    Dodger: results?

    Tag!: does anyone ever need that many extra points (effectively)? I mean a combat skill, maybe two if you really feel like it, speech, science, lockpick, not much is all that essential or even beneficial beyond a certain point (as best I can tell). I haven't gotten to the endgame to find out whether I'll need bonus sp with high intelligence.

    Right now I'm kind of leaning towards quick pockets, bonus ranged damage x2, bonus rate of fire, better crits, bonus move (for kiting), and sniper. Though that might end up mostly being overkill. Not sure if I'll need extra sp to get everything I want, bc I feel compelled to choose big guns as my secondary (if anything). Watched a few let's plays, never saw anyone use them. Not sure where I'd make space for two ranks of sharpshooter to maximize my flamethrower output. Plus I didn't take fast shot, because I actually use aimed shots (improved crits, more status effects, bypassing armor, I mean come on!)

    Edit: I can massacre anything I come across with big guns and/or stealth by level 12. Companions are just pack animals to me now, and getting to 21 let alone max level just seems boring. Maybe extra ap for an extra attack if I keep going, or bump up my carry weight bc I like rolling with all the the big guns.
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
  2. lostabroad2

    lostabroad2 First time out of the vault

    Apr 2, 2013
    The game really isn't about maximising skills or values. It's about maximising your enjoyment of playing the game. There are many serious flaws in the game engine but exploiting those flaws doesn't actually enhance the gaming experience. If I told you that
    was probably the most game-changing Perk in Fallout, (and even more so in Fallout2), if exploited fully, would you really want to know?
  3. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    Long story short. I disagree with how to maximize enjoyment. So yes I would/do like to know that. I hope that didn't come across as like spiteful or anything. Also sorry for the insanely long post. I swear I'm not drunk. Although saying that doesn't exactly help. Kind of puts the thought into your head doesn't it. I'm just a writer with entirely too many thoughts in my head.

    *About spoilers and I guess sighted playthroughs?*
    I don't get why people feel the need to tell other people how they *should* enjoy art. Taste is not objective. So, it's best to let others worry about whether they're having fun or getting whatever else they want out of it (there are other considerations). Either way my ability to do a blind playthrough was lost long ago, and I do not regret that fact for a second. I am also one of those people who doesn't care about spoilers, bc as counter intuitive as it is--they actually have been shown scientifically (not joking) to improve enjoyment. Probably comprehension as well, but I can't recall if that was part of the study. It definitely raises an interesting point about starting narratives at the very end. I mean you don't even have to give away the plot. You could just show a scene after the climax where the protag/hero-team has learned something, reacted emotionally, and the general aftereffects of whatever crisis existed/exists is visible. Anywhoo.

    *About Tag Specifically*
    I'm getting real frustrated with how long it takes to level (but still enjoying it thoroughly now that I solved the bug issues I was having) bc I need way more sp for my current needs. Lockpick is usually inadequate, science is never enough, and my big guns skill is at like 10. Seems the most economical skill to tag I guess. I'm worried if I try to try plvl w/ the deathclaws then I won't make it to Necropolis in time to murder Lou, and I 'gots to save Necropolis even though it's not canon. Though unless I'm totally confused it wouldn't be too difficult to exploit the Librarian and the Deathclaw restock/respawn together. I mean, the Followers surviving wasn't canon for a while, and honestly I half expect Bethesda to give up on Fallout bc they have fractured the already split player base with Fo4. So who knows what the future holds. Not like they give a shit about canon...

    *Some other tangents*
    Lessons learned so far that would have only been nice to know ahead of time: don't buy anything you're not going to use ASAP. Tell me about 'whatever' should have been patched in as a basic dialogue option bc why would you want anyone to miss that stuff. It's some of the funniest and informative dialogue I've come across. I will never use thrown and placed explosives. Deathclaws are not that hard to kill at level 5. It's kind of a let down with all the build up honestly. They should have been tougher or that dialogue should have been about super mutants. Which can take a surprisingly large number of grenades to the face. If you take Jinxed even with 10 luck every weapon you ever cared about will blow up in your face. A sawed off pistol is basically just better than a sniper rifle. Your companions will either abruptly lose what you give them without warning, or they just have hidden inventory and you're never supposed to know what they're actually using. If something died on the same spot facing the same way their loot is gone forever. You can use steal to give your companions better armor (omg they die so easy).

    Lessons not yet learned: how to get Harold to not skip over half of his dialogue options. What the deal is with first aid and doctor. How many people you have to shoot in the dick to get people to respect your personal space. Stop boxing me in you fools! Whether I should get rid of my companions and when. I mean, a wait function is actually a bigger deal that I thought it was. Or Maybe I just need to set their formation to close range, and they'll stop screwing up my stealth by running up to point blank rank (even Tycho with a sniper rifle, holy hell). Or maybe my sneak is just too low bc I haven't been keeping up with it. How to not get lost constantly and miss entire maps in settlements. How to find doors without circling everything. How much science I need/want. I don't like wasting sp, and investing into lockpick so it can still tell me I suck too much to ever use it to use is a bummer. What can you even use science on? Like 4 computers in the game and everything else exists just to taunt us? When Stapleton restocks/how to maximize skll point gain from books (zomg repair and science past 100% O.O, and I guess outdoorsman bc I want dat bb gun foo). I only ever managed to use it to fix Shady Sands' agriculture. Min req for peaceful solution to getting the water chip and fixing der power plants water purifier so Necropolis isn't boned. So yeah, I still have plenty of things to figure out and honestly I don't see how not knowing that kind of detail would ruin anything for me. I like to plan. I like to organize. I like to anticipate enjoyment bc that only extends it.

    *An almost completely random tangent*
    If I just move all my fallout files to a different folder, does that do the same thing as installing them somewhere else? Because apparently that might get a savegame editor to work which would be nice for experimenting. Which I also enjoy, because SCIENCE! Except that it's technically not even engineering which is basically science lite.
  4. Risewild

    Risewild Antediluvian as Feck
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    I can't really help with those perks you ask about because I always play with a melee/unarmed character.
    I can tell you that AP in battle is pretty important.

    If you follow the next link you can see what each perk actually do in the game:

    Hopefully someone who plays with ranged will come by and answer your questions properly.
  5. ThatZenoGuy

    ThatZenoGuy Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism

    Nov 8, 2016
    I tend to get the extra movement perks, so I can kite melee dudes, toughness to resist deathclaws and other melee/gauss, and sniper for 100% crit to the face.
  6. lostabroad2

    lostabroad2 First time out of the vault

    Apr 2, 2013
    Please ignore my previous post. It's a long time since I have played the original Fallout and I had forgotten how different the settings were between Fallout and Fallout2. My post was accurate for Fallout2. In Fallout2 skill increases cost 2 points per 1 point raised once you reach a skill of 101, increases cost 3 points once you reach 126, increases cost 4 points once you reach 151, and so on.

    Many players tag Small Guns at the start so they get 2 points for 2 skill points at 101 and 2 points for 3 points at 126, and so on. What few players seem to realise is that Tag also works retroactively. Thus if you increase your skill from 30 to 80 and then use Tag those 50 points will double to 100 plus the 20 points Tag bonus. Thus your Small Guns skill becomes 150. It's a lot cheaper to gain points that way rather than use Tag at the start to boost your initial skill to 50, then add 26 points to get to 102, then spend 25 points to get to 127. You've spent the same 50 points but you're 23 points worse off. Obviously the trick is to boost your Small Guns skill, (also works for Big Guns and Energy Weapons if you're taking that route).

    A 2nd factor is the use of skill books. Books add 9 points if you're between 0-9 at that skill. If your skill is 10-19 you get 1 point less, (9 points). Thus 20-29 is 7 points. In Fallout your initial Small Guns skills is 35 + AG. However in Fallout2 it's 4 X AG. So...reducing your AG by taking chems and then suffering withdrawal could reduce an AG of 10 down to 1, which would reduce the Small Guns skill by 36, meaning you get extra points when you use skill books, which will then be doubled when you later apply Tag.

    Extreme Fallout 2 example: You start with the Gifted trait that reduces skill points by 10. You start with AG 10 and IN 10. Your Small Guns base skill is 30. You collect the appropriate skill books and drugs without increasing your Small Guns skill. (Use Melee or H2H as your base fighting skill). Don't spend all your skill points. You need 86, (assuming 8 skill books), for when you reach level 12. You use drugs then withdrawal to reduce your Small Guns skill to -6. Now use skill books. The 1st book boosts you up 10 points to 4. The 2nd book gives you 9 points to 13. Then 8 to 21. Then 7 to 28. Then 7 to 35. Then 6 to 41, Then 5 to 46. Then 5 to 51. (Assuming you only have 8 skill books). Now add 50 skill points to reach 101. Now spend another 36 points to bring you Small Guns skill to 119. Now rest. When the Withdrawal wears off your AG will return to 10. This will boost your Small Guns skill to 155. Now get Tag and use it on Small Guns. The 125 point gain from 30 to 155 will be doubled and you'll get the 20 point Tag bonus. Your Small Guns skill will now be at the 300 maximum. You'll be able to target eyes at 95% at 40 hexes.

    Alternatively use an Fallout editor and give yourself whatever you want. ;-)