Fallout 1 versus Fallout 2

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by CT Phipps, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. Black Angel

    Black Angel Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus

    Mar 21, 2016
    How's Fallout 2's main story better for you?
     
  2. a721402

    a721402 Played FPS for decades still suck at it.

    746
    Mar 29, 2016
    The main story in FO1 is more developed to be sure, but the side stories like power struggle between major faction in the wasteland of FO2 are generally more interesting.
    So Fo2 it is..
     
  3. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Antediluvian as Feck

    Nov 26, 2007
    I don't; I seem to have misread Naossano's post. I actually agree with it.

     
  4. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    My opinion is mixed, Fallout 1 is more tighter regarding story and how a lot of elements like the BOS, the Glow, the Unity, Mariposa base, and the Master are connected with another.
    But Fallout 2 offers a lot more variety regarding locations and the people living in them and even if the Enclave are not as well developed as the Master and the Unity I still found them cool antagonists.
    Just not antagonists or a faction that has to be brought back over and over again.

    The problem with Fallout 2's campaign and narrative is that it is a bit wandering around until it eventually comes together.
     
  5. SiriusShenanigans

    SiriusShenanigans Those who write on Heaven’s walls...

    96
    Jun 27, 2018
    I can't imagine calling fallout 1 better in any capacity. Its short, simple, and doesn't really have any moments that really stood out to me. I remember getting to the end of the game and having to double take because I was sure that couldn't have been all of it, because there was barely anything there. To say fallout 2 doesn't have themes is just erroneous, and I honestly think the enclave is one of the best framed villains of the franchise. Their execution isn't as iconic, but they don't have to be, its not what makes them great. The enclave is the ultimate evil of the wasteland. They are the group that decided that the world should go to war, and in their greed they decided they were too important to die so they sacrificed the people of their country, then had the gall to say they are the true americans. They are the insanity of the prewar, and a huge theme of fallout 2 is the the brutality of the wasteland is favorable to the insanity of the prewar. Everything in the game is building up this sense that we should love the wasteland and hate this prewar group that is trying to take that from us. I'd say its a better told theme (and a more interesting theme) than fallout 1's theme of the world being broken and the master trying to save the world from it. The enclave is also satirical, which appeals to me on a level of complexity much more than the master saying "well I'm just trying to save everybody". Even his claims of "one race is the only way to stop us from fighting" doesn't really mean anything when you can have people in rwanda who judge each other by the thickness of the bridges of each other's noses and have an entire genocide based on that, even if they are all one race. Are the enclave sympathetic? No, they are supposed to be unforgivable, but thats why they are based on something real. They are American Unilateralism, they are unchecked nationalist elitism, they are the gap between politicians and constituents, they are bigotry in the name of american values. They are the unholy unity of aristocracy, politicians, and military elite, and its truly amazing how this game made 20 years ago still resonates with politics of today.

    Fallout 2 even has really solid subplots. I love how the game has you following the path of destruction laid waste by the spread of jet, seeing all the lives torn by it and seeing how it cripples the wasteland. I love the hypocritical nature of Vault City and trying to argue with myself over whether they provide something critical to the wasteland or if they deserve to be destroyed to give way to something better. Do you sit idly by and allow slavery and classism to rule a world before you? There are no good powerful factions in fallout 2, because it has this theme that power corrupts. Power is what took a perfectly good world and tempted the nature of humans into war that destroyed everything. Thats why you don't align with factions in the game, and in a way, you make your own faction of sorts. I love the way that the towns are interconnected via different plotlines and quests that overlap between towns. It always made me question and wonder about the intentions of different groups so I would know exactly why they were there.

    Fallout 2 impresses me with writing, and it manages both comedy and cerebral content really well, and that keeps me entertained. Fallout 1 tries, but I don't find it to have that many moments that strike me as requiring real thought.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 3
  6. KingArthur

    KingArthur You Have Alerted the Horse [REDACTED]

    Jun 25, 2018
    I was gonna weigh in on this, but @SiriusShenanigans kinda said everything I would’ve wanted to. 1 is my favorite Fallout game, but in terms of which is objectively better I’d have to argue for 2.
     
  7. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    While they thematically answer to each other, i don't think they are of the same genre.

    Fo2 is more social satire, with the setting as an excuse to explore new societies, while Fo1 is more using sci-fi to question universal theme, like what measure is an human and if humanity deserve to live in this world. Depending on what resonate the most with you, you might prefer one over the other.

    I'll stick to my initial statement. MAIN story of Fallout 1 is much better, but most of the world that isn't connected to the main plot feels generic or underwhelming. Seriously, are Shady Sands\Vault 15\the khans anything more than the generic rpg first town\bandit lair\rats lair ? Junktown might look good on paper, but are you having any kind of hesitation when choosing between Gizmo and Darkwater ? (some nice stuff happening on the side, but kind of going to nowhere) The BOS have quite some nice backstory, but feels like the hidden elves village. Adytum have some nice twist, but also feel quite rushed (and factually is, considering they cut a lot of it). Which leaves the Hub, Necropolis, the Unity, the Glow, the backstory, and the Fallout world itself to be amazed.

    Fallout 2 as a thematically relevant main antagonist, with a serviceable, but ultimately weak execution, that coexist with a couple of major subplot that are much more engaging and felt in the gameworld, and a world full of locations with a varying level of success, but always with something that keeps you immersed and involved.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 4
  8. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    974
    Dec 6, 2016
    This

    And this.

    Fallout2's problem is in fact the quality roller coaster. for example, following the natural path of the game, you get out of the spectacular NCR / Vault 15 and end up in the terrible Vault13 / Frisco (honestly, I kind like the smart deathclaws hehe)

    I think I read somewhere that each location was created by different teams and then they created a miracle by sticking it all together with spit.
     
  9. mithrap

    mithrap Ring a ding-ding, baby

    425
    May 17, 2016
    Fallout 2 is more centered around new civilizations than around your personal journey, which is something I really like, but it also make for a more impersonal story than F1.
    Every single town is so different from another, and yet, they interact with each other in a believable way (the whole plot centered around the Bishops, Vault City and the NCR is actually very interesting. It has that "global scale" that is missing from Fallout 1.)

    However, Fallout 1 has more memorable moments, I think. The meeting with the Master, the feud between Gizmo and Killian and the first time you enter the Brotherhood of Steel's bunker are moments I'll never forget.

    It's really hard to say which one I prefer. They are so different in what they are trying to achieve, but they both succeed at it.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 2
  10. Makta

    Makta The DICKtator

    Jul 29, 2010
    Fallout 1 has better story and some really interessting areas compared to F2 and has a way better start, I am not a fan of TOT!

    Fallout 2 is improved in most ways with gameplay replayability and suchs and is just easier to get into!.. If you survive TOT that is, But it also have more towns that feels half finished and empty like san fransico etc.

    Overall i would say Fallout 1 for a single playthrough but Fallout 2 for everything els.

    Today i learned, I should maybe stop killing any enemy i encounter in games :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
  11. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    What is TOT ?
     
  12. Makta

    Makta The DICKtator

    Jul 29, 2010
    Temple of trials.
     
  13. SiriusShenanigans

    SiriusShenanigans Those who write on Heaven’s walls...

    96
    Jun 27, 2018
    TOT is temple of trials.

    How can you say fallout 2's towns don't seem finished (which is like... a san fran problem exclusively) when Fallout 1 has multiple instances of places you can't get the good ending for because they simply didn't have their central quest finished.
     
  14. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    If you think the Temple of Trial is the hardest beginning, you didn't try Last Hope.
     
  15. Makta

    Makta The DICKtator

    Jul 29, 2010
    Not hard but stupid and rather boring at least the first time you play it.
    San Fransico/Vault 13/Vault 15 Modoc and partly Gecko was not done or at the verry least rather empty,
    Modoc had what? 3-4 quests and it was killing a few wolfs find a clock and then the ghost people part wich was the only nice part.
     
  16. SiriusShenanigans

    SiriusShenanigans Those who write on Heaven’s walls...

    96
    Jun 27, 2018
    Vault 13/Vault 15 are all part of that NCR part of the game. I imagine they were handled with similar groups. Gecko has a great number of quest lines. Its got the rat cult, its got tragic, its got all of the mods, its got reactor fixing and optimizing, its got the search for that one mummy ghoul guy. I actually really like gecko. Modoc is also a really strong area. You can get married there by accident. They have death claw chickens. You blow up an outhouse. You can steal wishes from the well. There is the ghost farm which is the main story quest for the town, and you have stuff like tracking down somebody's son who has gone missing. Thats not including two enemy clearing sidequests.

    What would you say is a really complete town in fallout 1 then?
     
  17. Cobra Commander

    Cobra Commander Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    974
    Dec 6, 2016
    Haha really? Cool. Do you need a hope?
     
  18. SiriusShenanigans

    SiriusShenanigans Those who write on Heaven’s walls...

    96
    Jun 27, 2018
    yeah, I think its like one of the only places in 2 you need a rope for.
     
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 1
  19. Gizmojunk

    Gizmojunk Antediluvian as Feck

    Nov 26, 2007
    It's a reference to the fountain scene in the Goonies.
     
  20. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    All this talk does remind me how flawed the Fallout games could be once you take of the nostalgia glasses.
    Of course they are still better than Fallout 3 and 4. Those took over some of the flaws Fallout 1 and 2 had with locations, having locations with little or nothing to them and multiplied it by ten or twenty.
    FNV of course had this too.

    I guess the best balance for a Fallout game would be a limited number of locations and more to them.