Fallout 2 mod Fallout 2 Restoration Project Discussion (ideas/suggestions)

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by killap, Mar 22, 2006.

  1. Dravean

    Dravean Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Mar 6, 2005
    Certainly. Just send me a PM or something whenever you wanna get cracking.
  2. Mr. Bazooka

    Mr. Bazooka First time out of the vault

    Apr 21, 2010
    I just noticed something that's a pain in the ass. Whenever I arrive Navarro, Chris harasses me, even though I convinced him I was an enclave replacement. Usually i end up just ventilating the bastard to shut him up, but it would me nice for me to only have to fool him into thinking I'm enclave once. Also, it would be cool if he let you in no trouble of you're wearing APA or APA Mk II.
  3. killap

    killap Bear Dude Moderator Modder

    May 16, 2005
    Post a save game so I can play around with this. Thanks.
  4. Mr. Bazooka

    Mr. Bazooka First time out of the vault

    Apr 21, 2010
  5. utunnels

    utunnels First time out of the vault

    Aug 2, 2010
    I'm not sure whether this is a practical idea, but I'll say it anyway.

    1. When I was looting Navarro base yesterday using Jinxed trick(I wait for them to critical miss and rob their equipments and stuff), I took the elevator up then down. The enemies were only a few grids away but they didn't see me since a wall corner blocked their sight. I rested for several days to recover HP and they did nothing, just stood there. You know soldiers don't refresh like merchants in this game, that is, if they lose their equipments or run out of ammo, they can't replenish themselves even if years have passed .

    2. I returned the Slaver Camp to pick up some equipments I dropped there 2 years ago. By chance I noticed there was a man behind the cabin! That poor dude must be pissing there when I raided their camp and had been standing there for years only to say 'now you die' to me.

    3. Mrs Bishop isn't bothered at all after Bishop and his men was killed. The Chop Shop owner doesn't realize Bishop is dead at all so I can still convince him to give my car back. --- Actually, no one in that town knows his death at all, even if years have passed.

    It seems the game was designed to be finished in 1 year or so http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline#2242
    So in a large span of 13 years, something looks just crazy.
  6. Ghouly89

    Ghouly89 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jul 14, 2010
    I found this in a file called "naming.txt" in the cuts folder for Fallout 2. Apparently many more movies were planned for the game... though I'm sure you've already seen this, Killap. ;) Do you think there's any chance some people with the neccessart talent would ever fill in the gaps for the missing movies? :shrug:
  7. .Pixote.

    .Pixote. Antediluvian as Feck

    Sep 14, 2009
    Don’t count on it Ghouly – it would be serious work building animations for Fallout 2, but who knows there might be an eccentric millionaire out there who will hire someone…Mr. Gates are you reading this. :wink:
  8. utunnels

    utunnels First time out of the vault

    Aug 2, 2010
    It seems some chance based skills, like steal, is not that worthy to be tagged nowadays, because our PCs are all fast enough. It won't bother me at all if you save and load for several times. Even with 20% of Steal, I still get a high enough chance to steal from behind.

    So shall we lower the successful rate (personally I don't like this solution) Or give proper karma penalty?
  9. John Hancock

    John Hancock First time out of the vault

    Jun 4, 2005
    For all intents and purposes, the Steal system in Fallout 2 is completely broken and unsalvageable as-is. The consequences for being caught — just once — are ridiculous. An entire map or even several maps full of NPCs can turn hostile on you.

    Meanwhile, you can loot dozens of containers in most areas, and no one will bat an eye.

    Here are the changes I'd propose, personally:

    • If you're caught stealing from a guard, in that case, it's reasonable for them (and everyone else) to immediately turn hostile.
    • If you're caught stealing from a shopkeeper, they simply say a few words and then refuse to do business with you anymore. If you're caught stealing from them again, the area goes hostile.
    • If you're caught stealing from NPCs who are neither guards nor shopkeepers, then your reputation in that area goes down each time you're caught, and your victim(s) refuse to talk to you anymore.
    • High levels of Steal make it very, very unlikely you'll fail your Steal attempt, especially when stealing from behind. This would be a change from vanilla Fallout 2, wherein you're still pretty likely to fail even with Steal 300%.

    But those seem like the sorts of complex scripting that are way too much work for anyone to bother with, so I'll go on never using the Steal skill at all in any playthrough, and others will go on saving/reloading and stealing whatever they want without risk.
  10. utunnels

    utunnels First time out of the vault

    Aug 2, 2010
    Well, the problem remains: it is a way too easy to just save and load, just like we use Jet or other addictive drugs.
    I heard that it took around a minutes to load on a slow pc, but now it is just a second or so. :P

    Let me explain my karma penalty solution:

    karma drop = (100-skill) /10

    So if your skill reaches 100%, you don't lose any karma. A not-that-skilled thief may not get caught if he's lucky enough (yeah, save/load trick) or the target is dumb enough, but he could more likely be suspected thus bad rumors about him spread.

    As for merchants, sometimes you can even loot all of his goods (for example, the chief of Modoc, the dwarf in NCR), but he still remains friendly next time -- maybe he just gets too many customers to suspect.


    There should be a special case that you don't lose karma by stealing: stealing from those who you gain karma if you kill them.
  11. John Hancock

    John Hancock First time out of the vault

    Jun 4, 2005
    Well, the problem I see with that solution is that it's specifically designed to punish people who save and load the game in order to steal or plant items with a low skill level. What's the point?

    If people want to exploit as they play, let them. Adding a deterrent will only annoy them, and it won't help those of us who prefer to play without relying on saving/loading tactics.

    You can also turn the difficulty up and down and/or utilize drug withdrawals to cheat the skill point cost system and/or get more use out of books, utilize beneficial drug effects to qualify for Perks you otherwise wouldn't, sprint to Navarro at the beginning of the game to grab APA, use Combat Mode to walk into Vault City's vault or past thieving orphans in the Den, and much more.

    Everyone saves and loads to some degree, but the best deterrent is your own willpower in resisting temptation... though I agree that the system shouldn't encourage so much saving and loading to begin with. There should be a reasonable risk that players will be willing to take without having to reload whenever they fail.
  12. Reference Obscura

    Reference Obscura First time out of the vault

    Jul 16, 2010
    The problem is, I don't think even the most reasonable of consequences would deter people from saving/reloading. A great number of players are perfectionists and, in terms of permanent things, want events to go a certain way.

    Temporary struggles are a different matter. Sulik gets critical'd for 70? Players will tough it out. Catch a broken arm? Endure, get to a doc. It's nothing permanent. However, iff a character dies that isn't supposed to, they'll reload. If an NPC gets killed, they'll reload. Fail a speech check? Reload.
    However logical a karma loss or an unavailable shopkeeper might be, I doubt most people would be willing through go the rest of the game with such a permanent blemish when they could just reload. So really, I don't think the steal system is salvageable, myself, nor is it really worth the effort to modify.
  13. utunnels

    utunnels First time out of the vault

    Aug 2, 2010
    Hmm, I mean lose karma when steal successfully.
    So if he wants to play a 'good' character, he'll consider the karma lose and steal only when necessary or increase the steal skill.

    Despite the steal system, I think thievery is 'bad' so some Karma penalty is reasonable.
  14. John Hancock

    John Hancock First time out of the vault

    Jun 4, 2005
    To be fair, no computer game to date has implemented a balanced and/or even remotely realistic theft system — not even the Thief games, although they come pretty close, since the entire game revolves around committing theft.

    As far as perfectionism... I'm a perfectionist myself, but in my mind saving and reloading continually to essentially bypass your character's terrible skill level in Steal is blatant cheating. You might as well create a mod that lets you steal whatever you want from anyone without any consequences whatsoever.

    I guess my brand of perfectionism includes "don't cheat or exploit" as part of the bargain. In Knights of the Old Republic, you could save and load before every Pazaak game, too, and essentially win every single match. Saving and reloading while stealing follows the same principle.

    You miss someone with your pistol? Consequence: You'll have to take another shot at them, and maybe use a stimpak later, since maybe they didn't miss when they shot at you. Fail a Steal attempt? An entire town hates you, no second tries.

    It's out of whack, but it is what it is. This really isn't the most appropriate place for an in-depth conversation like this, though, so I'll shaddap now.
  15. Minorkos

    Minorkos First time out of the vault

    Nov 30, 2008
    It appears my jinxed trait isn't working too well with my 10 luck. 50% of the time I miss and lose a turn, 30% of the time I miss and drop my weapon. I rarely manage to hit anyone even though I have 88% hit percent with my super sledge.

    I tried uninstalling restoration project and guess what! Hitting nearly every time with my 66% hit percent. During my short test, I encountered no critical misses whereas those happened constantly with the mod.

    I don't think "I didn't change it" is a good enough explanation for why it's bugged so I think you should fix it or I will call you a big mean time burglar

    Edit: I bought the game from GOG.com and I dunno if that has anything to do with it

    Also I didn't read the last 40 pages or so, sorry
  16. Ghouly89

    Ghouly89 It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jul 14, 2010
    Ah, if only he would step in and pay professionals to help with those things... let's call it a special type of "philanthropy" ;)

    Honestly, I would make them all + movies for other mods, but yet again, I lack the so called "talent" :roll: But THEN AGAIN, I'm getting a year long course on computer animation in school this year, so you never know :aiee:
  17. Continuum

    Continuum Vault Fossil

    Nov 8, 2006
    Sounds good. One year and we'll have tons of new animations! :P
  18. hologram

    hologram First time out of the vault

    Jan 17, 2008
    Been a few things that have crossed my mind again, been playing evil character now, beating the crap outta everything with terribly bad luck.

    1. in ghost farm after getting captured by the slags, made a rather violent escape and returned to modoc. however, couldn't tell anyone about the terrible subterratean people-abducting freaks that'd deserve a bullet or two.

    had to restore a save here and deliver the stupid letter.

    2. after 'accidently' blowing up gecko's reactor, nobody in vault city does recognize my heroic deed. now why's that?

    negative feedback from vault city people would be nice, it's rather confusing. ghouls did respond in rather negative manner, though.
  19. utunnels

    utunnels First time out of the vault

    Aug 2, 2010
    Hmm, confirmed this. I didn't critical miss a lot, but I did miss quite often. If so jinxed is quite worthless unless you decide to wait to loot their weapons and run away.
  20. Darek

    Darek is currently unavailable

    Jan 7, 2008
    @ Minorkos and utunnels,

    Known and fixed in the latest sfall. Will be included in the next RP release.