Fallout 2's Plot has Failed

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by Ben Soto, Mar 1, 2016.

  1. Ben Soto

    Ben Soto Professional Salt Shaker

    731
    Jul 7, 2014
    I just realized how stupid Fallout 2's plot is.

    Now, before you strap me to a stick and roast me in sacrifice to the great and powerful Black Isle, here me out. As always, you are free to have your own opinion. In mine, however, the entire premise of Fallout 2 is a total failure.

    For those who don't know (spoilers ahead) the basic plot of Fallout 2 is “your village, Arroyo (founded by former citizens of Vault 13) is dying. Go find a G.E.C.K. in Vault 13.” Now, this sounds pretty easy, right? No. Your quest will take you all across the Core Region on a wild goose chase to find this damn thing, only to have your quest become a quest for vengeance when the Enclave decides to kidnap your entire village because… evil?

    Now, let's focus on the really stupid bit: your starting quest. Find the G.E.C.K. Sounds simple, right? I mean, Vault 13 is, to the people of Arroyo, the holiest of holy places. Surely, somebody in your village knows where it is, right?

    NOPE! Nobody knows where the damn place is. But, eh, I guess you could forget where your holy city is, right? I mean, it's been eighty years! But, surely, somebody decided to draw a map back to the place? It's a giant stash of powerful technology (case and point, the G.E.C.K.) It seems appropriate that somebody would think “Hey, we have all this cool stuff back there, surely we'll need to go back there at SOME point?”

    NOPE! Nobody bothered to even make note of the general direction they came from, much less the exact location! Okay, that's unfortunate, but wait! We've got the Vault Dweller's Pipboy! He's got a map of the entire southern Core Region, including the exact location of Vault 13! I'll just load up the map and…

    NOPE! For some reason I can't explain, nobody bothered to take good care of this holy artifact, meaning that the memory module went corrupt. Now, we have no map. Great… Alright, so nobody knows where the damn place is. Hell, even Vault 8, one of the most advanced vaults built (if I recall correctly) doesn't have the location stored. Just great…

    Alright. We've resigned ourselves to going on a wild goose chase. That sucks, but it's not impossible to do. Now, since we've got no clue where to go and no knowledge of what's beyond our village, surely they'll give me the absolute best equipment possible! Even if it's not very good, at least some basic leather armor and a pipe rifle would be great! Right?

    NOPE! You get a spear and a jumpsuit. Want a better spear? You've got to CONVINCE your AUNT to give you some flint for what amounts to a very marginal increase in power, and you're not guaranteed success. You're telling me that my aunt is so self-absorbed she's willing to let me die and, by extension, let the village die instead of doing something nice for me? Speech checks, usually, are smart. This one, by comparison, is so damn stupid it's a wonder this got past QA.

    No. NO. That's not how ANYONE would act, unless they were truly the most IDIOTIC people in the wasteland. In that case, why not kick out the idiots so we can save some resources? That actually leads me to another point; if they can't give me anything better than a freaking SPEAR, even if my character shows no competence in melee fighting, then they could AT LEAST give me a number advantages, right? Send some hunters or fighters or somebody with me to give me a bigger chance of survival. SOMEBODY. ANYBODY.

    NOPE! I'm sent, alone, with nothing more than a bright blue spandex jumpsuit and a spear, on a wild goose chase on which I've no clue where to go. My village could DIE and I'm supposed to save them all, SINGLE-HANDEDL. No. That's… That's the definition of moronic. What's the combined IQ of this village? 75? They're the biggest of Darwin defiers since Megaton. No, actually, that's an insult to Megaton. At least they're smart enough to fortify their city, purify water on a large scale, and reprogram advanced AI to guard their homes. What the hell has Arroyo done? Kill a few geckos and built a temple to judge their leaders by their ability to stab a few ants. Yes, from I can tell based on dialogue with the villagers of Arroyo, they use the Temple of Trials to judge their leaders. BASED ON THEIR ABILITY TO STAB ANTS. How primitive have we gotten? This is ridiculous!

    You know, screw this. Arroyo can die for all I care. I'm going to Reno.
     
  2. Ninja

    Ninja Who?

    243
    Dec 15, 2015
    The whole thing with tribal regression bothered me as well. Fallout 2's main quest was a long shot from a narrative masterpiece, but a lot of people who love Fallout 2 are into that kind of wackiness.
     
  3. Ben Soto

    Ben Soto Professional Salt Shaker

    731
    Jul 7, 2014
    I'm not even talking about the main quest as a whole. I'm talking about everything you learn within the first HOUR of playing. If I were to actually bitch about the main quest in it's entirety, this post would be a hell of a lot longer.
     
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  4. BairdEC

    BairdEC It Wandered In From the Wastes

    146
    Jun 21, 2015
    I don't think not knowing where Vault 13 was located is that large of a plot hole. The Vault Dweller was the only one from the vault originally, and he was kicked out. I can see him actively trying to forget the vault and refusing to talk about it with the other villagers. The villagers wouldn't necessarily know how to take care of the Vault Dweller's high-tech items; after all, they're at least two or three generations removed from the pre-war society in FO1 and twice that in FO2. They are in that realm where high technology is indistinguishable from magic.
     
  5. Ben Soto

    Ben Soto Professional Salt Shaker

    731
    Jul 7, 2014
    Everyone from Arroyo is a descendant of a citizen of Vault 13. And again, it's pretty stupid to actively try and forget the one "supposedly" safe place in the Wasteland. The Pip-Boy has got to come with some sort of care and maintenance manual, so it can't be that hard for the villagers to keep it nice and working. Hell, just freaking dusting it every once in a while might help out with staving off memory corruption and loss of functionality.
     
  6. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    So? They're descendants of OUTCASTS, the main one who would probably try to forget it. I don't know, the vault dweller was the leader right? He was rejected, forced out and made outcast AFTER saving it? Yeah I would be fucking pissed too. And it's not a safe place as he was made an outcast. It's like me as a criminal cop going to a police station. Really safe right? Why has it 'got' to? It would make sense the Vault Dweller would cast it off, only used as a special item after his death. That wouldn't help...
     
  7. The-Artist-64

    The-Artist-64 "Set Phasers to Fun."

    239
    Jul 19, 2015
    Not necessarily. Many of the Arroyo villagers were desert survivalists or tribals from across the wasteland.
     
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  8. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    In fact, the majority of numbers are tribals.
     
  9. Lanfear

    Lanfear Mildly Dipped

    543
    Jan 26, 2016
    But the entire reason the Enclave kidnapped them was to compare their DNA with the people from Vault 13. Because they were both descended from the same stock. Or some bullshit like that.

    I loved Fallout 2, but its plot wasn't very well thought-out. I also blame it for the scourge of the Vaults-as-social-experiments phenomenon.

    That being said, I don't care about some of the things in the OP, like tribals not knowing how to properly care for a PipBoy or sending the PC out alone with a spear. The former makes sense given how ass-backwards Arroyo is, the latter is honestly just because game mechanics. Same argument could be applied to Vault 13 sending one person out alone to find a water chip. Or countless other games which involve a lone protagonist.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
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  10. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Some of them were, not all of them.
     
  11. Gnarles Bronson

    Gnarles Bronson regular mutant

    373
    Oct 30, 2011
    The Enclave needed the tribals for their FEV experiments. They needed two test groups: one of clean, pure humans; and another composed of the "mutants" that lived all over the mainland, suffering radiation and FEV exposure for decades that, to the Enclave, made them unclean. The unclean sample was easily obtained by kidnapping the entire population of Arroyo. The clean group were the dwellers of Vault 13, who were reunited with their long lost Arroyo brethren in Enclave prison cells.

    original vault dweller was exiled. He could no longer go back for any reason, no reason to have a map back to it.

    I mean, this is true for virtually any video game: "What do you mean you're charging me for your inventory? I'm on a quest to save the world!"

    I don't know that the mission in fallout 2 was expected to succeed. Most of the village seems to regard the elders as crazy, so not many would volunteer to go with you.

    http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Arroyo
     
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  12. Languorous_Maiar

    Languorous_Maiar A Smooth-Skin

    688
    Oct 25, 2011
    There were other people form Vault 13 in original Arroyo tribe.

    Why are you lying?
    Vault Dweller was the third man sent to get water chip... First was Ed, second Talius.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
  13. dopezilla

    dopezilla God of Blood and War

    571
    Nov 6, 2015
    The premise of Fallout 2 is a bit of a stretch, but I could always live with it. Although the Temple of Trials does make me chuckle. Anyway, Fallout 1 clearly has the superior narrative to the main quest, but as a whole, the Fallout 2 world was a lot more interesting to me with all the factions struggling for power, so I'm willing to forgive the slightly silly premise.
     
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  14. Lanfear

    Lanfear Mildly Dipped

    543
    Jan 26, 2016
    OP was questioning the fact that people kept getting sent out alone with no assistance on these crucial missions. The fact that Vault 13 did it three separate times doesn't really mitigate this criticism. It's an RPG trope.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
  15. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Fallout 1 had a much better narrative arc and story, that worked well. However it's downside is the lack of quests and factions, which is a shame.
     
  16. Gnarles Bronson

    Gnarles Bronson regular mutant

    373
    Oct 30, 2011
    You might wanna look in a mirror and chill for a little bit.
     
  17. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    Just before I start, a lot of people are debating whether Arroyo was founded by majority Vault Dwellers or majority tribals. We have only confirmed that 1 other tribal(Pat) originated from Vault 13. Yes it's implied more, but it could very well be that the Vault Dweller members are an extreme minority. I would say since it says a few, there are a minimum of 5.

    As for why they forgot the location, they wanted to start a new life out in the Wasteland, and disliked how Vault 13 kept them inside. They probably wanted to forget all about the Vault.

    Just a point here, but this is assuming that the Pip-Boy Map is exactly as we see in game. How do we know that it doesn't show a map of the pre-war world, I mean how would a pre-war device even know where Shady Sands is?, it could just be a matter of gameplay mechanics here. And besides, even if the map is legit, your expecting a group of people who are barely able to craft spears to know how to work with an advanced piece of computer technology.

    As for the Vault 8 computer, why would a Vault Computer even need to know where other vaults are?, they are social experiments, and if they were able to get in to contact with each-other that might just interfere. As to why they know where Vault 15 is, you could easily justify that with "The NCR are their main rivals, they've probably scouted northern NCR quite a bit, and found out about Vault 15"

    These are an incredibly primitive group of people. I doubt they fully understand Leatherworking, so that takes away from the possibility of Leather Armor. And there is only one Handgun in the whole village, and it's broken. There is very good reason they can't give you that equipment.

    It's heavily that your Aunt dislikes you, and is a greedy bitch. And the way she sees it, hard times are coming so might as well prepare as best you can, even if it does mean extorting the village hero. There's no guarantee that you'll survive on your quest, whereas having 3 bags of Healing Powder would always be helpful.


    Your the most skilled member of the tribe judging by you being able to get past the Temple of Trials. You have the best chance of surviving in the wasteland, why send a group of warriors that have never seen civilization before, when there is a good chance that they will die. If you can't stake it out on your own, odds are they are doomed anyway. Sending a couple warriors to their graves wont help the situation.

    Temple of Trials isn't just about stabbing ants. It is filled with traps, sealed doors, radscorpions(And antidotes for Radscorp poison), and lastly there is a skilled warrior at the end, making sure that you don't pass unless you can beat him in a fist fight. It is testing your strength, medicinal knowledge, problem solving skills, and cautiousness.

    I'm going to bet that most people in a realistic situation would have died in Temple of Trials. Having Poisoned Arrows fired at you constantly, and potentially being swarmed by Ants the size of Dogs is a situation very few would survive.
     
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  18. The-Artist-64

    The-Artist-64 "Set Phasers to Fun."

    239
    Jul 19, 2015
    Maybe a minor nitpick with your argument, but Vault 13 is actually implied to be the most advanced vault. It took the longest to build, it's equipped with construction equipment and hydroponic farms, and it got top billing as 'the Vault of the Future'.

    Vault 8 is more of a slice of what the conditions in regular vaults were like, not counting the fact that it was a control group.

    Another thing to consider is that some vaults were commissioned to have secret locations. Vault 13, in particular, was secluded in Mt. Whitney, hidden to keep it safe from all threats, whether those threats were Chinese ICBMs or post-nuclear horrors. It would make sense for a lack of communication between vaults, and moreover the lack of organization within Project Safehouse. Some of the higher-ups and members of the proto-Enclave were focused expressly on social experiments, while others (regional managers and lower employees) were constructing 'Vault 0' to allow all vaults to communicate. It was a very disconnected, poorly planned idea.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2016
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