Fallout 3 at E3 - Electric Playground

Discussion in 'NMA News and Information' started by Brother None, Aug 10, 2007.

  1. Vault 69er

    Vault 69er Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    May 3, 2007
    Remember, this is a 1950s version of 2077. Not 1950. We don't know what the Chinese had, or anyone else for that matter.
    What's always been a given since the very first Fallout intro is that the entire world was consumed by nuclear war.
  2. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Some of the fans keep claiming that there was no missile technology in the Fallout universe.
    I find this rather far fetched as it is clear that they have rockets and satellites, in Van Buren there would even be a space rocket for the player to man and a space station to go to, so what is the problem with intercontinental ballistic missiles.

    Heck, they probably even have those atomic bombers the US and Soviet Russia wanted to built in the sixties.
  3. ratsnack

    ratsnack Still Mildly Glowing

    Jun 27, 2005
    maybe these "fans" need to read the wiki and the documents :mrgreen:
  4. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Problem is, those documents are rather unclear about missile and rocket technology in Fallout, the developers have contradicted themselves in the past from time to time.
  5. ratsnack

    ratsnack Still Mildly Glowing

    Jun 27, 2005
    You mean Van Buren BOMB document might be dismissed? I hope not. I really like that part.
  6. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Indeed, I love them too and I treat them as much as possible as canon.
  7. Vault 69er

    Vault 69er Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    May 3, 2007
    I too love the whole concept of the B.O.M.B. and consider it canon.
    Besides, the intro to Fallout 2 describes "spears of nuclear fire". While poetic, it does allude more to missiles than it would to bombs.
    Terminology like "the bombs dropped" in places like Maxson's report don't really contradict that idea, since even nuclear missiles are often thought of as "The Bomb".
  8. requiem_for_a_starfury

    requiem_for_a_starfury So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Apr 3, 2003
    Rocket ships doesn't have to mean missiles, looking at it from the viewpoint of the 50's pulp sci-fi writer rocket ships were an old sci-fi idea but missile development probably a closely guarded secret (I'm not sure when they went public) in the 50's. Super bombers like the B36, on the other hand were known and even appeared in a couple of Hollywood movies. It would be more likely that the writer would envision the continued development of the bomber rather than the introduction of the missile, even if space ships were produced.

    Looking at it in universe, IIRC the ICBM came about because the USSR didn't have client countries that could host the short ranged weapons available at the time. Fallout's universe had different politics as well as different technology, What if the States hadn't of been able to convince the Europeans to host it's early missiles? Would the ICBM still have been developed, or would they continue the development race of the long ranged bomber?

    Fallout 2 introduced a lot of inconsistancies to the setting.
  9. Per

    Per Vault Consort Staff Member Admin

    Apr 1, 2004
    Much as we might want it to be, nothing from Van Buren is canon merely on the strength of being in the design docs.

    Example of use: "Nuclear missiles are the bomb!"
  10. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Okay, fair enough. I like to consider it canon as I like the idea of the US having orbital missile platforms before the War.
    Plus Van Buren explained more about the New Plague and its origins, as well as computers such as ODYSSEUS.
  11. Kyuu

    Kyuu Insert Awesome Title Here

    Jul 19, 2007
    I think what a lot of people are forgetting is that, while Fallout's setting is based on 50's sci-fi pulp and vacuum-tube computers, the nuclear war didn't happen until... *checks Fallout timeline* October 23, 2077. Regardless of the setting, it seems likely that, having developed powered infantry armor, plasma weaponry, vertibirds, GECKs, and everthing else, the US and probably even China and other countries had delivery systems capable of hitting probably any target on Earth, whether by ICBM, extremely long-range bombers, or whatever.
  12. ratsnack

    ratsnack Still Mildly Glowing

    Jun 27, 2005
    I vote to cannonize!
  13. Justicar Empiricus

    Justicar Empiricus First time out of the vault

    Aug 6, 2007
    I kinda like the fleets of long-ranged nuclear bombers, with some ICBMs tossed in for variety. Just seems more original. Not that my opinion really matters, but that's just what I think.

    I view the Van Buren documents as semi-canon. As long as they don't conflict with the original games (Fallout 1&2), I'm fine with them.
  14. Vault 69er

    Vault 69er Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    May 3, 2007
    Well things in Fallout tend to have a tinge of modern ideas in them, to show that this is a world developed from 1950s ideas but not completely bound to them.
    Look at FEV for instance. While being transmitted through vats of green goo to make horrible mutants is very 50s, the backstory of it being a genetically engineered virus that alters cells isn't.

    The Soviets don't seem to be very significant in Fallout. The only time they're mentioned is in Natalia's bio. Missiles could have come about due to China's need to target the US. And since it seems that WW2 still happened, that means the US gained access to the German V1 and V2 technology which if China got wind of could start an arms race.

    I prefer the idea of a smaller amount of ICBMs and orbital missiles backing up a main force of nuclear powered super bombers though. Because it's just cooler.

    True, but I don't believe this was one of them.
  15. Nyarlatothep

    Nyarlatothep First time out of the vault

    Aug 5, 2007
    OK, you win, I loose... Just give me a little hope that this game could possibly become good at last. I so search for this hope right now!
  16. Sorrow

    Sorrow So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Feb 9, 2006
    How about rockets that drop atomic bombs :D ?
  17. requiem_for_a_starfury

    requiem_for_a_starfury So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Apr 3, 2003
    The reduced Soviet threat just strenghtens the argument against the development of ICBMs. But orbital missile launchers are a world away from ICBMs so really the exclusion of one doesn't preclude the inclusion of the other.
  18. Ausir

    Ausir Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 20, 2003
    Actually, Fallout and Fallout 2 have even more direct references to "missiles" and "warheads" than the "spears of nuclear fire". Some examples:

    From CHUCK.MSG (FO1):

    From GLO1WEAP.MSG (FO1):

    From OBJ_DUDE.MSG (FO1):

    From Fcdrfung.msg (FO2):

  19. Atomic Cowboy

    Atomic Cowboy It Wandered In From the Wastes

    May 5, 2006
    If you don't mind me revisiting the Brotherhood of Steel debate...

    I think some of you are missing the point.

    Back when I was in High School, I read Star Trek: The Nitpickers Guide (yes, I was a huge geek). It was a listing of all the continuity and technical errors that appeared, episode by episode, in ST:TNG. In between each season block, there'd be a 'fun' mini chapter. In one of them the author 'explained' how the errors he'd listed weren't, in fact, errors, but intentional parts of the show. He cited several examples, and came up with elaborate explanations justifying why you could see a boom-mike during the scene, or why the doors opened awkwardly, etc. It was a humourous example of not using Occam's Razor.

    Now when it comes to justifying the BOS's presence on the East Coast, any number of elaborate explanations can be crafted. In a fictional universe, anything is possible. If we were stuck in that universe, the BOS presence would be a mystery begging a solution. But we're not in that universe - we can step outside the box; the BOS presence, then, is purely a mistake.

    There is no need for them to be there. If you want to put in a bunch of guys with Power Armour, fine, they could even have a similar history to the Brotherhood, and that would be less of a problem. Same thing goes for the Super Mutants - I mean really, there were only a few hundred - a thousand at most - created by the Master. To try and posit that 70 years later, they're all still alive, and still waging war is ridiculous. If they were that bellicose, then they'd be dead.

    Neither of these groups belong in Fallout 3.

    No amount of in-game speculation and justification covers up the lack of creativity inherent in reusing characters and organizations that don't belong. In F2 the cameo appearances of F1 characters added depth to the wasteland - it was reasonable to expect to see a few of them. In F3 it's just lazy cheese.

    And I'd like to finish with one last thought on 'The Wasteland Police' - what the hell were they thinking? The world is in a state of anarchy; there's no regional government collecting the taxes to maintain a police force, and the different cities (presumably) have differing ideologies on what 'living the good life' is. So where do these Police get their funding, and why are they doing it? There'd better be some damned good explanations behind this. I can think of a few, but they're subtle, and given the heavy-handed nature of everything Bethesda's displayed so far, I expect the BOS to be nothing more than a cartoonish version of Arthur's nights, with lazsr guns. Wandering around, righting rights, defending the peasants, with - of course - an infinitely respawning well of cheeser Paladins who don't mind dying.

    Thanks for listening.
  20. Morbus

    Morbus Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 16, 2006
    No problem. Good read.