"Fallout: Between Good & Evil" announcement

K

Karel

Still Mildly Glowing
It's a long time since anybody made an announcement of something what I would call “full scale” mod (also known as suicide, because of large number of unfinished ones). Actually, I can't call my message an announcement either, because I want to tell you more about Fallout: Between Good & Evil. Our mod is not new and is with us for almost two years. Most of you haven't heard about BGE until recently, when we published some critters (the viper) at NMA. For a long time, we didn't have an English translation and translating the mod wasn't even considered to be feasible. However, only the war never changes, people do. We will have at least English version (and possibly German). So, let the propaganda begin!

The most important thing you should remember from this post is our website: www.towerofcreation.com. We have published plenty of materials, including plot outline, basic texts about what we want to achieve and some screenshots. BGE will be finished (of course, but I don't promise any release date) and will be in size somewhere between Fallout 1 and Fallout 2. Imagine a nice mix of desperate atmosphere (F1) and variety of quests, locations and approaches (F2). Our artist are working hard to bring you new critters and game objects too.

The story... I won't tell you much, maybe only that we don't like Hollywood Happy Ends. You will end up forgotten and unwanted, yet eager to describe your colourful life to anyone passing by.

OK, end of PR. All of you had seen thousands of such announcements, thousands of unfinished mods. Possibly many of you will just read the start of the post and say something about daydreaming. It's not the point. Personally, I think the mod is going to be finished. I cannot convince you and I won't even try. I will only ask you whether you could help us to finish the mod. We need more artists... more programmers... more (fill in your capabilities). Many people are busy, have families / study the university / ... We know that. We have life too, but you can help in many ways – not only as a team member, but by asking questions, by saying that you want to play the Fallout: Between Good & Evil.

Also I would like to hear your opinion about one current issue. With the opening of the mod to the outer world, many of us have raised a question. All of our materials are written in Czech (funny language with a lot of hyphens) and the knowledge of English (as the almost official language of the Internet) is not so widespread among team members as you might thought. The problem is, if you allow foreigners to join, you need to speak English. Only foreign artists are now part of BGE but this should change in the future. Generally, all internal documents will be translated into English, among with the whole game. It isn't any extra work, because we are getting in a stage when we finish locations (just small parts, but we do), so design documents have to reread, corrected and locked anyway. I'm just worried how would “old” members react to “new” members: think about these situations we are going to face... Joint discussion on IRC – we have these sessions twice a week, in Czech. What would you do if you had to speak English? how about private parts of web forums where we discuss the game? Because the rule is going to be “foreigners don't adjust, we politely do”.

We appreciate everybody concerned in helping us.
 
I suggest concentrate all team you have to build just one area, some location like small town and finish it. When new project starts everybody got many ambitous visions, but its only "begining enthusiasm" which will quickly burn out. I tell you it because got some moding experience and i see whats happend around (so many big mods was never finished!) When you made that area you may olways relase it as small but working mod.

Try not made many new graphics, mod will look great on screens but most important is scripts and story (it must be playable) Its ok when mod use standard known scenery but contain many interesting quests and dialogues, especially details.

I could help because its look very good! but first i must finish all stuff i start. So i may now only help you by giving things i got (download BSM and take from it everything you want- many new items)
 
Thanks for your reply, Lich... Mostly you´re right. But I have spent a lot of time by looking for complied and talented people, wrote plenty of "design documents", gameplay changes / improvements... so I can´t deny a "begining enthusiasm" at all. :)
Contrariwise, the bigger game is both more motivating work for us and more expected by people. We have some minor problems indeed, especially between writers a programmers, but it isn´t an our "killer disease" yet.

We´re still very unsure about english translation and cooperation with non-Czech people. Could be this type of cooperation good? May it brings more problems than final benefit? God knows... :(

I´m not so sure about your attitude to new graphics, I think that we don´t prefer this part at the expense of e.g. storyline. We´re currently disposing of one fiery graphic artist, one occasional item-maker, one (very) occasional loadscreen maker + some mad_eye´s 3D stuff. And, of course, we´re freshly cooperating with Sirren67, who has definitely a knack of making critters. :)

I appreciate your support anyway.
 
First of all, sounds good to me, it can be done if you have the right team are well organised. At MR we were not that well organised and stuff like that.

Anyway I'd like to suggest a different approach as used by this mod (They are converting Starcraft into the Warcraft 3 engine, looks really cool).

http://www.wc3campaigns.net/revolution/index.php

Anyway, they have two sorts of people working on the mod:

1) Memebers

2) Contributors

The members are the full memebers of the team and have proved themselves to be worth while team members. These people have full access to the mod and the test builds, story line etc...

The Contributors are just people who make the old bit for the mode, for example a contributor might offer to make a new critter, a world map or a new scenery item. If you want to be a member of the team you need to contribute something first.

In a business sense the contributors are kind of like outside contractors who are there to just do the odd task etc...

Make up a contributors forum or some some thing and ask "can someone please make this new loading screen" or "We need a new sound track for this town"

Even posting basic requests here you will get a few people help out by creating one off items.
 
I think finall succes depend on speed. If you made 10% progress in one month, that NOT mean mod will be finished in one year, because half of your team will lost patience and others will get new different visions how build it (it mean 2-3 years or never)

Remember that real progress speed depend on scripters. New graphics mean nothing, its only put more attention of players to that project. Otherwise made few universal scripts and use it in many different ways. For example standard dialogue and quest. I think Harris got right vision with his Wasteland Merc (it use universal scripts) Its very easy to made game that way . Anyway i tyed the same and its real work. So i made town with 10 peoples which everyone got the same dialogue scheme but different content. I finish it in one day! and it was playable. When i try made area with 10 different scripts it take me much more days to finish but finall effect was similar or the same.

So to complete mod (even big one) you need only few universal scripts and good story writter. But its need first to research them. Already i got universal dialogue script which work, for quests its more dificulty. Mostly it will work by check your skills and stats amount. Because everything you do in world depend on skills and stats, and you get experience by some action.
 
Lich said:
I think finall succes depend on speed. If you made 10% progress in one month, that NOT mean mod will be finished in one year, because half of your team will lost patience and others will get new different visions how build it (it mean 2-3 years or never)

Remember that real progress speed depend on scripters. New graphics mean nothing, its only put more attention of players to that project. Otherwise made few universal scripts and use it in many different ways. For example standard dialogue and quest. I think Harris got right vision with his Wasteland Merc (it use universal scripts) Its very easy to made game that way . Anyway i tyed the same and its real work. So i made town with 10 peoples which everyone got the same dialogue scheme but different content. I finish it in one day! and it was playable. When i try made area with 10 different scripts it take me much more days to finish but finall effect was similar or the same.

So to complete mod (even big one) you need only few universal scripts and good story writter. But its need first to research them. Already i got universal dialogue script which work, for quests its more dificulty. Mostly it will work by check your skills and stats amount. Because everything you do in world depend on skills and stats, and you get experience by some action.
Click to expand...

Thats a pretty good idea, why didnt someone tell me that a long time ago, could have helped MR a lot :)
 
Hm but I don´t like "universal scripts" so much. With this, the player can lost the feeling of the mod, because, every time he meets new npc's, he will start thinking something like "i know what you wonna say to me, stop talking, give me teh damn quest and go away!" (in extreme). I think, good dialogs are a must have feature in a fallout mod (and game). Of cause, it´s possible to make a good Fallout mod with this universal dialog-style, but for me it won´t have "the real Fallout feeling".

- Only my two cents
 
You have to remember, Lexx, that this way of scripting leads to less production time, so they can use that time for other things.

I may suggest that you go with the Snowballing approach, to make sure your team stays in it for the long haul. Start small (or just slowly increase amount of work from where you're at now), and build up.
 
Nology5890 said:
You have to remember, Lexx, that this way of scripting leads to less production time, so they can use that time for other things.
Click to expand...

Right, but what do you want to play? A game with a big big world and shitty story + less good dialogs or a game with a not so big world and a good story + good dialogs?
 
Huge world & shitty storyline? Something like this was apparently used in Morrowind... :D
 
Wild_qwerty said:
First of all, sounds good to me, it can be done if you have the right team are well organised. At MR we were not that well organised and stuff like that.

Anyway I'd like to suggest a different approach as used by this mod (They are converting Starcraft into the Warcraft 3 engine, looks really cool).

http://www.wc3campaigns.net/revolution/index.php

Anyway, they have two sorts of people working on the mod:

1) Memebers

2) Contributors

The members are the full memebers of the team and have proved themselves to be worth while team members. These people have full access to the mod and the test builds, story line etc...

The Contributors are just people who make the old bit for the mode, for example a contributor might offer to make a new critter, a world map or a new scenery item. If you want to be a member of the team you need to contribute something first.

In a business sense the contributors are kind of like outside contractors who are there to just do the odd task etc...

Make up a contributors forum or some some thing and ask "can someone please make this new loading screen" or "We need a new sound track for this town"

Even posting basic requests here you will get a few people help out by creating one off items.
Click to expand...

Do you have any ideas how to get support from all those part-time contributors? Because many people are really good at what they do, but are doubtful about their abilities, yet many incompetent people ignore the truth that they cannot create anything.

BGE worked for more than a year (full time, not including design phases) and we didn't have so much publicity we have now. Of course, most of the publicity is caused by us, because we generally need more talented people, but the problem is that we don't want BGE to look like one huge hype. So, I think asking people to create e.g. some art wouldn't give them the right motivation. Other ideas were for example announcing a public competition for best town_art on set topic... What is your opinion? What is too much and what is not enough?
 
Lexx said:
Hm but I don´t like "universal scripts" so much. With this, the player can lost the feeling of the mod, because, every time he meets new npc's, he will start thinking something like "i know what you wonna say to me, stop talking, give me teh damn quest and go away!"
Click to expand...

Seem like you dont understand how that script work. Probably you think its some kind of NPC boring clone. But its made from components from you activate few parts which in result give you many different combinations. So every NPC got the same script but they will look different. Its still under research, basic version available for download from UQS homepage.

Without UQS game will have 5-10 very ambitious scripts and other just hack & slash. When its possible increase speed of scripting you have 50-100 scripts with medium quality. So you dont need put many monsters for kill to increase time of mod playability. Fallout2 is trully RPG with many details so its need to use that many scripts as its possible. Without them it will look like some kind of postnuclear Diablo.


Anyway, last picture: GREAT! like everything else i seen on this project.
 
Yes, but you remember Morrowind? Many quests, a realy big world, but... after a while it´s only boring.
 
Because in present times peoples seen many and dont want play game which look good to just spend time on play it. Game must have something NEW and interesting.
 
Some art tasting (not finished) :wink:

novesvetlo1.jpg
 
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