Fallout: New Vegas Collector's Edition announced
- Thread starter Starwars
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I not saying that we should get rid of things like experience smart ass.
What I am saying is that there is no need for magic stat boosting items.
Or when you have them, implement them in a more realistic fashion or include some kind of penalty to use them, rather than just happen to have them on your person.
What I am saying is that there is no need for magic stat boosting items.
Or when you have them, implement them in a more realistic fashion or include some kind of penalty to use them, rather than just happen to have them on your person.
Surf Solar
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
I agree with The Dutch Ghost, I mean, in the original Fallout games stuff like +1 Intelligence etc. was serious business, only capable for those who have gathered those special chip-thingies for the BoS Scribe/Super Computer in FO2 to raise one of your stats. In FO3 nearly every Armor gives you atleast a +1 stat in your SPECIAL. I mean, +1 Perception for a simple hat? While I only could agree with a hat that protects your head from desert sand and gives you advantages in seeing a bit wider, it still just sounds ridicolous. Oh, and not speeking of this "Intense Training" Perk one can get with atleast level 5, raising all your special stats to the maximum. 
The only thing what was ok I think was the metal armour. It could be find early in the game, had a very good armor stat, but it made -1 to agility.
The only thing what was ok I think was the metal armour. It could be find early in the game, had a very good armor stat, but it made -1 to agility.
So the fact that the 'magic' armors in Fallout 3 had terrible DR wasn't enough of a penalty for you?
If you want a realistic post-apocalyptic roleplaying game, how about you quit playing fallout and go play STALKER instead? Because if there's one thing Fallout's rarely, if ever, done is taken pains to implement things in a balanced or realistic way.
"magic" armors were awesome, and bobbleheads were awesome, and being able to run around with ten in every special stat is awesome. If you didn't like the fact that it's possible for this to happen... I don't really know what to tell you. It's not like in other games where it's a mechanic that's constantly chasing you down or is meant for everyone to use. You have to consciously decide or, in the case of the bobbleheads, actively search and venture into some fuckoff dangerous dungeons.
But hey, we should penalize everyone who doesn't have fun the same way you do instead of enabling people to pursue multiple playstyles.
If you want a realistic post-apocalyptic roleplaying game, how about you quit playing fallout and go play STALKER instead? Because if there's one thing Fallout's rarely, if ever, done is taken pains to implement things in a balanced or realistic way.
"magic" armors were awesome, and bobbleheads were awesome, and being able to run around with ten in every special stat is awesome. If you didn't like the fact that it's possible for this to happen... I don't really know what to tell you. It's not like in other games where it's a mechanic that's constantly chasing you down or is meant for everyone to use. You have to consciously decide or, in the case of the bobbleheads, actively search and venture into some fuckoff dangerous dungeons.
But hey, we should penalize everyone who doesn't have fun the same way you do instead of enabling people to pursue multiple playstyles.
Surf Solar
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
DemonNick, it's not about making something "realistic", but gameplay wise good. And in FO1/2 it was ok, it added you a nice little advantage, while in FO3 it just leads to Jack of all Trades Characters. Slightly with the vanilla FO3, and totally fucked up with the Broken Steel DLC where you can Max out all your stats and become a level 30 killing machine.
Bethesda wants a fun enjoyable rump in the Wastelands, run around and kill everything without suffering too much in return (perfect for a teenager). “Don’t bite the hand that feeds you” is their motto…keep it easy; keep it simple stupid, and hype up all of the un-necessary flab – such as vats and exploding body parts. When they run out of ideas they refer to nonsensical random encounters from Fallout 1 and build an entire sequence on it…their ideas age so quickly, and it’s because they lack that true talent required to build a masterpiece. I will give them credit for a pretty talented group of artists and programmers, but can you imagine the difference if Tim Cain, Leonard Boyarsky and Chris Taylor stepped into Bethesda with a 25+ million budget and said “OK boys this is how its done”. 
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Balance is extremely important to games and what sets apart the great from the rest. Fallout has always had issues with Balance, I give Tactics points for putting in more serious drawbacks for armor but no game has done a good job balancing the skills. Fallout 3 is fucked in that department, it's easy to make a character who maxes out every skill without Broken Steel but once you add that in, every character is a master at everything. Add in magic clothing which you can equip up until you max out every skill and do everything anyway and it begs the question of why have skills at all?
I honestly prefer passive bonuses or limited boosts (like potions) that don't require me to hassle with equipping crap just to do one thing then unequipping it, it's needless hassle. It's not like you're going to be attacked when you're using non-combat skills anyway so it's pretty pointless. That said, the only reason to put in skill boosting items is as a reward and even then it's questionable (especially at the levels that Fallout 3 offers). Rewards have to feel appropriate for the player but you should never give an item that compromises your game as a reward and Fallout 3 offers a number of them which snowball. Fallout 1&2 did a horrible job balancing skills, probably partly due to having too many (put in skills for a very specific purpose that rarely came up) and partly due to their skill check system being too directly based on PnP (dice rolls have no place outside of combat besides gambling).
As many flaws as Fallout 1&2 had, they were nothing compared to the mess that was Fallout 3.
I honestly prefer passive bonuses or limited boosts (like potions) that don't require me to hassle with equipping crap just to do one thing then unequipping it, it's needless hassle. It's not like you're going to be attacked when you're using non-combat skills anyway so it's pretty pointless. That said, the only reason to put in skill boosting items is as a reward and even then it's questionable (especially at the levels that Fallout 3 offers). Rewards have to feel appropriate for the player but you should never give an item that compromises your game as a reward and Fallout 3 offers a number of them which snowball. Fallout 1&2 did a horrible job balancing skills, probably partly due to having too many (put in skills for a very specific purpose that rarely came up) and partly due to their skill check system being too directly based on PnP (dice rolls have no place outside of combat besides gambling).
As many flaws as Fallout 1&2 had, they were nothing compared to the mess that was Fallout 3.
.Pixote. said:Bethesda wants a fun enjoyable rump in the Wastelands, run around and kill everything without suffering too much in return (perfect for a teenager). “Don’t bite the hand that feeds you” is their motto…keep it easy; keep it simple stupid, and hype up all of the un-necessary flab – such as vats and exploding body parts. When they run out of ideas they refer to nonsensical random encounters from Fallout 1 and build an entire sequence on it…their ideas age so quickly, and it’s because they lack that true talent required to build a masterpiece. I will give them credit for a pretty talented group of artists and programmers, but can you imagine the difference if Tim Cain, Leonard Boyarsky and Chris Taylor stepped into Bethesda with a 25+ million budget and said “OK boys this is how its done”.
Add Warren Spector to that list. Unfortunately most of the really talented people are either licking someone else's boots or have been drummed out entirely.
The people at Beth aren't talented at all. They use a 3rd party engine (gamebryo), the worlds are copy-and-paste and the models are poor. They have a niche, a lot of hype, and a great many people who find their games fun, for whatever reason.
There's a lot of money behind them as well, and frankly, that's all that matters. So long as they keep serving the agenda, the money will keep flowing from above.
Surf Solar
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Ixyroth said:
Because it's easy to mod in every wish you have. Be it Naked models, lol I've even seen a VERY popular Sex simulator on FO3 Nexus. It's just that people are very, very, very dumb and such games with such a mechanic simply attract even more people who are silly or childish.
UnidentifiedFlyingTard
Vault Fossil
Im saving up money for this, I'm a sucker for knick knacks.
and the idea of a Fallout graphic novel makes me very happy.
and the idea of a Fallout graphic novel makes me very happy.
I want the freakin' NCR T-shirt dag nammit!
Stanislao Moulinsky
Vault Fossil
DemonNick said:
Uhm...what?
Ranger Combat Armor:
DR:39
Luck +1 AP +5 Small Guns +10
Enclave Power Armor:
DR:40
ST +1 AGI -1
Tesla Power Armor:
DR:43
Energy Weapons +10
These are the three best armors in vanilla FO3, they all offer good bonuses, aren't hard to find and can be easily kept in perfect condition. Not enough?
Enclave Hellfire Armor:
DR:50
ST +1 Fire resistance +30
Tribal Power Armor:
DR:35
LK +1 ST +1 AG -1 AP +15 Melee +5
Ashur's Power Armor:
DR: 40
LK +1 ST +1 AG -1 CH +1
Khan FurSainty
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Surf Solar said:Yep .Pixote , that's what I meant.
I mean, it would be just ridicolous thinking that every box is handmade, by MCA or someone else of the dev team, they aged it artificial.
But yes, I really really dig that style of very detoriated stuff. And as I usually don't buy Collectors Editions (I wanted that FO3 Bobblehead, though) I'll most probably buy this one. Even If I'd found it better, if I had a lil' book with a novel, rather a then a graphic novel. I don't really like comics...
Maybe Bethesda actually made the entire game while Obsidian handcrafted the boxes for the Collector's edition.
DemonNick said:
How about you stop telling people what is fun and what is not and at least try to have a civilized conversation?
It always pissed me off at Beth's forums that people didn't even try to support their claims, just told me to play another game if I didn't like what they did. Bit of an asshole behaviour, since they don't own the game anymore than I do. Also, last time I checked, discussion forums were meant to discuss things.
Ah, anyway. Magicaly stat-boosting items are a bitch to balance and are, IMO, the easiest way to reward player for making progress. Just like making the game full of "for the lulz" moments, instead of creating a breathing, coherent world with some meaningful things to do. Sure, there are people who don't mind such way of game design, but since Fallout 1 and 2 supported the other (well, at least one of them did and the second was a mix), I'd expect it's successor to do the same. I do not understand why would I have to go and play Stalker only because Fallout 3 turned out to be completly diffrent (and also poorly executed IMO) game. Aren't my expectations justified?
To remain on topic- I'll go with the casual edition, I never bothered much for the Collector's Edition. Buying it just for the book is a rather risky options, since I don't know if the book is even worth a read. Guess I'll wait and see how people liked it and buy it somewhere if it's good.
DemonNick said:
How about playing something differend than Fallout because Fallout 1,2 and Tactics where more ore less realistic games. Thats the reason why I first startet to play part 1 and finished it really often. And playing an dump Char in Fallout 2 was really great (after I found out it changed something). At this moment I really started to hate Vaultcity or the aunt and some dialogs where really great. Thats one of the great things about not beeing able to max your stats, you have to decide what kind of char you want to play. And some of the sats up I could understand. have same doctorthinks on, and look realistic and the people will react to you in an other way, than before. Also some Charismabonus I can understand. But otherwise only wearing better shoes, kannmake running easy and could give you one movement point extra, but of course shouldn't give you more points in agility.
in the end, I hope if they use the bonussystem, it's more realistic.
frosty_theaussie
Still Mildly Glowing
Ixyroth said:
Don't forget their use of Havok, SpeedTree and FaceGen. Somehow with all of that middleware, they still manage to have spastic physics (whoops, that wasn't very PC of me), ugly foliage and even uglier NPCs.
Paladintaco
First time out of the vault
cool will pre order
.Pixote. said:Bethesda wants a fun enjoyable rump in the Wastelands, run around and kill everything without suffering too much in return (perfect for a teenager). “Don’t bite the hand that feeds you” is their motto…keep it easy; keep it simple stupid, and hype up all of the un-necessary flab – such as vats and exploding body parts. When they run out of ideas they refer to nonsensical random encounters from Fallout 1 and build an entire sequence on it…their ideas age so quickly, and it’s because they lack that true talent required to build a masterpiece. I will give them credit for a pretty talented group of artists and programmers, but can you imagine the difference if Tim Cain, Leonard Boyarsky and Chris Taylor stepped into Bethesda with a 25+ million budget and said “OK boys this is how its done”.
The ironic thing I've found out now after trying to finally finish FO3 with the FWE mod and others is that in this games' case, making it harder does NOT enhance the experience. On the contrary, while some combat encounters were fun and much more rewarding than in unmodded FO3, I've become increasingly irritated at the tedium of having to triage limbs and search in vain for caps and ammo and stimpacks and constantly crawl back to civilization for help. Funny, THIS is what I wanted for the game in the past, yet there is so little interesting in the game itself, such annoyance at the neverending metro tunnels and cut and paste locations and glib and pointless quests that I understand now why Bethesda made the game so easy and filled with stat increasing junk and copious amounts of everything: it's to make people be able to get through it as quickly and easily as possible!
When you're constantly upgrading your character and raining death on foes and exploring the wasteland quickly and easily it makes the game seem far more dynamic and interesting(relatively speaking) than having to scratch around and go back again and again to the same areas, clearing a bit at a time. Beth's world doesn't have many redeeming qualities that make such careful grinds rewarding and fun.
I've now turned off most of the mods, except for the slowing of experience just to get this thing over with.