Fallout: New Vegas quest troubleshooting (spoilers)

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by FearMonkey, Jul 21, 2012.

  1. FearMonkey

    FearMonkey Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 12, 2011
    So I just got New Vegas during the steam sale and I'm trying to play through it non-violently. But the first sidequest I was given in Goodsprings doesn't seem to have a non-violent solution.

    The only thing I can see is if I get the townsfolk to join in on the gunfight and then I do nothing and just watch the carnage happen, it might not register that I have killed anybody. If that's the only way to do it without killing anybody, fine, but it just doesn't seem like a particularly good solution to me. I would think there should be a way to get Cobb to go away with a speech check or to do something else for him that would get him to lay off Ringo. But no dice as far as I can tell.

    Anybody have any other suggestions? Thanks.
     
  2. Courier

    Courier Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite

    Apr 10, 2011
    You can just stand by and watch the fight and it won't register as killing anyone, however some of the townspeople might get killed without your help.

    Really though if you're roleplaying as a pacifist then you shouldn't be getting involved with gunfights in the first place. That's kind of counter-intuitive.
     
  3. Geech

    Geech It Wandered In From the Wastes

    183
    Dec 2, 2008
    It'll be tough game to finish nonviolently.
     
  4. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Shoot me again. I ain't dead yet. Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005

    Almost impossible really. Hoover Dam would be a bitch.
     
  5. Courier

    Courier Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite

    Apr 10, 2011
    You can always disarm people in VATS, and there are several stun weapons available. I know there's that taser gun in Honest Hearts.
     
  6. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Shoot me again. I ain't dead yet. Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005

    Taser gun? How did I miss that? Every time I get out they pull me back in. :)
     
  7. Courier

    Courier Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite

    Apr 10, 2011
  8. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Shoot me again. I ain't dead yet. Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005

    Oh that gun. I didn't know it was a taser.
     
  9. Knight Captain Kerr

    Knight Captain Kerr Still Mildly Glowing

    208
    Nov 27, 2011
    Not really, i've done it twice.
     
  10. FearMonkey

    FearMonkey Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 12, 2011
    So how did you get through the Ghost Town Gunfight non-violently may I ask?

    Also, in general, what's the best strategy for finishing it without killing anyone? It seems to me, so far, that the best way to do it is to skip most of the sidequests and just concentrate on the main quest. Or do I have to finish a lot of quests by just letting other people kill each other? As someone above said, it seems counter-intuitive to do it that way. It makes more sense to just not get involved re:a Pacifist playthrough.

    It's kind of disappointing if this is the way most of the game is. I expected more out of Obsidian in regards to player choice and quest design.
     
  11. Knight Captain Kerr

    Knight Captain Kerr Still Mildly Glowing

    208
    Nov 27, 2011
    I didn't do it. I didn't do a lot of side quests because they involve killing. Also the best thing to do is sneak and run away from hostiles.
     
  12. FearMonkey

    FearMonkey Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 12, 2011
    Well, that's disappointing. I really expected more from Obsidian.

    FYI, this is the build I started with.

    S - 1
    P - 8 (currently 7 due to four-eyes trait)
    E - 1
    C - 9
    I - 9
    A - 8
    L - 4

    Tagged Skills: Lockpick, Sneak, Speech
    Perks/Traits: Four-Eyes, Good Natured

    Anything you suggest changing? I plan on sneaking my way through the wasteland sections and talking my way through most quests if at all possible. Also, using lockpick/pickpocket/barter to get money to bribe people if needed.
     
  13. Courier

    Courier Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite

    Apr 10, 2011
    Many sidequests are non-violent to begin with or can be solved through non-violent methods.

    If this is your first time playing New Vegas though you probably shouldn't try to do a pacifist character yet.


    Edit: You should lower Perception and Charisma and give those points to Strength and Luck instead. Luck is pretty important in a game set in Las Vegas, believe it or not.
     
  14. FearMonkey

    FearMonkey Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 12, 2011
    Weird though that the first sidequest one encounters has to be done violently (unless I let everybody kill each other). Or not at all. I went through it again to keep the quest from even registering on my Quest list.

    I enjoy challenge. :p

    And I've played both Fallout 1 & 2 as a pacifist so I figured (possibly incorrectly) that I'd be just fine in New Vegas. *shrug*

    I don't intend to get into combat so I'm not sure why strength is a big deal other than carrying capacity. And since I won't be carrying anything heavy like weapons (as I am a pacifist), I figured I don't need the stat very high. 160lb seems like plenty to me for carrying around food/water/ingredients/etc., unless there's something I don't know. :p

    I might change my Luck stat. They let me change stuff around one last time before I leave Goodsprings right?
     
  15. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    Don't blame Obsidian; they DID do amazing things with what they were given. Blame Bethesda... for a variety of reasons. For starters, forcing Obsidian to use their Oblivion Engine. People can clamor on and on all they want about "how much variety" Bethesda titles have, but really they're glorified sandbox shooters. Considering Obsidian had to work with this engine, what they pulled off with New Vegas is absolutely nothing short of a MARVEL to behold. Give it some appreciation! =)

    Yeah, as many users have expressed, a large number of quest have NO "non-violent" solutions. SOME encounters can be avoided by running away, SOME ( like Ghost Town Gun Fight) can be "modified" if you choose to Reverse-Pickpocket better gear into the inventories of the NPCs you want to win, and a very small number of non-quest related encounters can be dealt with via a speech check. The end of the game can be completed by having 100% Speech, but for the rest of the game, if you sincerely want to kill nothing, and win your victories through words, you're going to be avoiding 80% of the game, if not more. (Generic enemies littering the environment count, and in DLCs, they make up the BULK of your day-to-day labors...)

    P.S. Depending on if you GENUINELY want to kill no one, including "inadvertently", you may have to avoid recruiting any and all NPCs whatsoever. If you just want the COURIER to be the only non-violent character involved, then you can let your companions do all the killing for you, sit back, and watch your "non-violent solution" in action! (Though I seriously doubt this is what you want.)

    ALL stats have a "speech check", of sorts. For example, having 6 or 7 ST will intimidate several specific NPCs. You won't actually harm them, just scare them into doing whatever it is you need done (usually divulge information). Luck has a MASSIVE impact on the game, overall, and if you have less than 6, you'll be hurting. 8 or higher, and many things will come rather easily. He was vague, so I won't go into further detail, either.

    Since the Engines between the original games and New Vegas are NOTHING alike, the stats have the following importance:
    LK: Non-violent money maker. MUST HAVE for those that wanna survive without looting.
    IN: Next most useful stat, purely for Skill points. Unlike the originals, your dialog isn't impacted by your IN.
    ST: Besides weapon requirements, you'll need this for carry weight. If you're patient, or intend to use the Long Haul Perk, you can ignore this.
    AG: A must have for most players. If you avoid combat, this is worthless.
    EN: Only useful for starting HP and qualifying for Strong Back. HP per level is static, so you can ignore this, otherwise.
    PE: Practically useless. Only useful for the "6th Sense", which is boosted more by a Companion than your PE itself. 6 is enough for most related Perks.
    CH: Least useful stat in the game. Speech isn't affected by CH. Companions won't suffer much from low CH.

    Certain skills have more applications outside of "succeed more often" and "does more damage" for combat. Explosives, for example, increases the delay when you trip mines. The delay is different for each mine type, and some will explode with little delay even with 100% Explosives, however, the skill still helps in the same way. Other skills, even if you never intend to use the weapons they correspond to, will also be involved in certain "speech checks".

    I'd suggest remaking your Courier. Set no stat above 8, and lower the "less than useful for me" stats to 1-4. Outfits in FO3/FONV increase stats and skills, so unless you're planning on getting Power Armor exclusively so you can survive running away all the time, should you choose more tactical equipment, you'll be wasting their benefits with certain skills being 91% or higher, or stats 8 or higher.

    You'll only get ONE chance to completely remake your character, and once you "leave" Goodsprings, that's final. If you've moved on and still have 9 CH, restart the game.

    P.P.S. Ghost Town Gunfight is an ESSENTIAL quest (at least activating it, anyway), if you want to ever be able to play Caravan. It's a surprisingly fun mini-game, and if more of my local friends played New Vegas, I would've loved playing Caravan with them, for real! =D It can also be abused, somewhat, because any vendors that play Caravan can essentially be "bought out" without making any financial transactions! Since you won't be looting any bodies, I'd highly recommend you obtain a Caravan Deck from Ringo. Chances are you'll activate MANY quests that cannot be solved without some bloodshed, and they'll remain active on your Pip-Boy permanently, so why avoid Ghost Town Gunfight?

    P.P.P.S. Nothing you steal in Doc Mitchell's house will alarm him, and he has a pair of glasses sitting on his desk right besides the bed you regain consciousness in, so if you want to use Four Eyes, GRAB THEM IMMEDIATELY!
     
  16. FearMonkey

    FearMonkey Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 12, 2011
    I agree. However, Obsidian wouldn't have put a mission like Ghost Town Gunfight in a game they constantly say can be beaten without killing anybody. They know the type of people who play like that and having companions do the killing for you while you don't do anything is a cop-out. That's where my disappointment comes from. I've since run into other quests like "clear the road of varmints" and things like that that I simply can't do also.

    Which was bad game design IMO simply because Obsidian kept saying "you can beat the game without killing anything". I shouldn't have to avoid 80% of the game in order to do this.

    Correct. However, I've had no choice but to do this when I had to rescue the Deputy from Primm. I was able to sneak to his position without alerting or killing anybody. But in order to get him out of there, I had no choice but to get into combat. Even though I didn't kill anybody, the Deputy did. I felt really bad about it but there was no way I can see of escaping without that happening. So I guess I have no choice but to do it that way. *shrug*

    Although I suppose I could just let him get killed after I talked to him and get the information on my attackers with a speech check and then let him get killed. Or tell him to stay put while I escape and leave him there till I can get a new Sheriff, assuming the game lets me do that. Never tried that.

    Regardless, this is yet another situation that isn't really good quest design in a game where you are supposed to be able to finish it without killing anybody. :(

    It affects Sneak which I use to avoid encounters so I don't have to kill anybody.

    It affects Lockpick which I use to get loot so I don't need to rely on Luck to get money.

    The "Official Strategy Guide" says that Speech is affected by Charisma. Is the guide wrong? ::confused::

    Good to know, thanks. :)

    Already past it. Hmmmmmm...not sure I want to start over. I'll have to think about it.

    Not true. I talked to Ringo without activating the quest and he gave me a Caravan deck. The door unlocks after doing the training with Sunny Smiles.

    Which brings me to another issue. While it's great and all that I can end the training after shooting the bottles so I'm not required to kill Geckos, it would have been nice for me to still be able to get the Survival training from her so I didn't have to figure out the Campfire business on my own. Oh well. :p

    Yup, did that, thanks. :)
     
  17. Stanislao Moulinsky

    Stanislao Moulinsky Vault Fossil

    Jul 16, 2009
    I think you are too pessimistic. At least half of the quest in the main game can be completed peacefully or without having to fight personally (and I'm not talking of letting your companions do the dirty work for you).

    I'm not sure why would the generic enemies would count, it's not like random encounters in FO1-2 didn't happen just because you were playing a diplomat.

    "Beating the game" isn't the same as "doing all the quest" in Fallout. Spoiler, you can beat the game without killing anybody.

    So every quest should be beatable by every character build? Why I can't beat any quest through violent means then?

    You can.
     
  18. FearMonkey

    FearMonkey Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 12, 2011
    Yes, I know you can. I wouldn't be trying if I didn't think it could be done.

    My point is quests shouldn't fall into your lap where there is no way to finish them without you being directly responsible for people dying. For Ghost Town Gunfight, especially since it's right away in the first area and I have to go out of my way to avoid activating the quest, there should be a non-violent solution to it. For instance:

    1) Trudy mentioned him sneaking out during the night. That could've been an option that would've required a high sneak skill or a Stealth Boy, which Cobb has one and perhaps you could steal it from him. Poetic justice at it's finest.

    2) You could do a high speech check on Cobb to get him to back off or even a high barter check to pay him off.

    3) There could be a way to make Cobb think that Ringo is dead and he'd go away thinking the job was done.

    Y'know, something that would be difficult but still be a way out without murder/death/killing.

    If a quest is designed properly, there should be many solutions, one of which, hopefully, doesn't require killing people. And certainly not one where people die but you were not actually doing it yourself, i.e. your companions or npcs do it for you. That's a cop-out IMO and not a true Pacifist playthrough.

    I'm not saying this is true for all games, but for a Fallout game, I think it's a requirement.
     
  19. Courier

    Courier Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite

    Apr 10, 2011
    "omg not every problem in a post-apocalyptic wasteland can be solved non-violently!"

    Who would've thought?

    As I said earlier, if you're roleplaying as a fucking pacifist then you shouldn't be getting involved with escaped convicts and gunfights in the first place. I don't know about you but I don't really know many pacficists who go out of their way looking for fights to involve themselves in.

    Protip: Some quests can't be completed without the use of violence, other quests will be failed if you attempt to use violence. Not every quest can be beaten by every character. C'est la vie.
     
  20. FearMonkey

    FearMonkey Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 12, 2011
    And I'm not.

    I didn't go out of my looking for it. I had to go out of my way to avoid it.

    When you walk into the Saloon after training with Sunny, it forces a cutscene on you between Trudy and Cobb. If you talk to Trudy afterwards and ask "I overheard your argument. What was that all about?", it automatically sticks that quest in your quest log. How I am supposed to know that asking a question like "what was that all about?" is going to automatically involve me in a gunfight between warring factions? It should not go in your quest log until you say "I would like to help you solve this problem" or whatever the dialog is, I don't remember exactly. It's ridiculous and it's bad game design.

    IMO.


    EDIT: Oh, and yeah, when I talk to Cobb and ask him the question about "Who is this Ringo person?" then the quest doesn't get added to my log until I say "Let me help you take over this town", then I get that Run, Goodsprings, Run quest added to the log. So it's not even consistent between the two key NPCs you can get the quest from.