Full Apology: Total Reversal On Earlier Praise

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by 3rdRate, Nov 1, 2008.

  1. 3rdRate

    3rdRate First time out of the vault

    Nov 18, 2003
    I posted about two days after I got the game:

    I really, really hope Bethesda does not get to make Fallout 4.

    Wow. I've never felt like such an idiot in my life. This game is such a dropped-the-ball disaster, it's embarrassing. I take back EVERYTHING I said in the above, because this game really doesn't meet anything I wrote.

    The opening and Megaton both had me convinced. Personally, Fallout 2 is quite possibly the best video game of all time, and one of the things I love about it is how the play one-ups itself as you go. You start in a small town, work your way to bigger towns, more civilized towns, the quests get more and more complicated...it's as seemingly open-ended and free-willed as you can get, but there's a natural progression to things.

    I assumed Megaton was going to be the Arroyo, and if this was the case, I couldn't IMAGINE what the game had in store. If this was the starting level, if these quests, characters, town-design, and so on, were simply the very first noob town you encounter...Christ, I thought we'd be in for the best video game of all time.

    And then, after a few more days playing, I realized there is no Megaton x 2, Megaton x 4, and so on. There's a brilliantly rendered world full of nothing, and Megaton is about as good as it's going to get. What you encounter there is the best the game has to offer.

    I get that the East Coast is not the West Coast. In the original games, Fallout 1 is a primitive world, Fallout 2 is a world that's more advanced, and far more rich. OK, fine, set the East Coast in that primitive world...but does it have to be so barren? Realism is one thing, but I play games for fun, and there are so many opportunities for fun that Bethesda didn't take up that it just ends up being depressing.

    It is mind boggling how far they were from the mark. In the original Fallouts, you encounter towns that have full histories waiting to be discovered. Mutant/human tension, gang warfare, etc. Here, there's none of that. It's just a big empty world with little going on.

    There's a glitch early in the game that causes Walter, the Megaton water guy, to fall off his balcony and die. If this happens, you find his body on the ground, and if you search it, you'll find a lead pipe. I got excited - now THIS was a Fallout quest, I thought. Someone killed Walter with a lead pipe ala Clue, now I gotta go to the sheriff, who's going to let me in on the real seedy hidden dealings in the town and hire me to figure out who did it...THAT would be fun. Then I realized it's just a dumb glitch, and I had to reload to a way earlier point when Walter was still alive.

    The other thing I've found is that I'm completing quests before I'm given them, which is frustrating. While exploring the way into DC, for example, I found Rock Caverns and shot my way through mirelurk after mirelurk only to find an impassible subway car. What the hell did I do all that for? I think there was a laser rifle on the ground, but the amount of ammo and health I wasted on that had me confused. I must be missing something. A while later, I saved the wastelander from the death claw, only to have him tell me the Caverns location and tell me of treasure that was inside. Yay.

    Finally, the glitches. Christ, this game is so glitchy. I just killed the fucking Supermutant Behemoth in quite possibly the most ridiculous battle ever. The thing is so buggy, it had no hope for survival, which is so dumb in that it's basically the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man of mutants and didn't stand a chance.

    OK, it's 4:20 and clearly I'm frustrated and ranting. To me, the spirit of Fallout isn't traveling the wastes and randomly finding a shack or two. Fallout is like the Arabian Nights: a story within a story within a story. It's not a big huge open ended world with nearly zero narrative, it's a story you can play in any order you want to. How the fuck did they miss that?
  2. Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude

    Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jul 9, 2004
    Oh god, that's great.

    But yeah, besides the environments; the game doesn't have much of a soul.

    At the moment, I've abandoned the main quest and am having a blast being a complete dick and murdering every motherfucker who crosses my path.
  3. 3rdRate

    3rdRate First time out of the vault

    Nov 18, 2003
    I feel exactly the same way.
  4. ShatteredJon

    ShatteredJon It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Oct 29, 2008
    It hurts me so to see another person who thought the game would be good, fall into our correct way of thinking. I imagine this happens to most of the Fallout vets at some time or another. I dived into this game with the opinion you know hold, so I did not squeam as much when I discovered the lacking aspects of this game.

    It is better to suffer for knowledge than wallow in ignorance.
  5. popej

    popej First time out of the vault

    Oct 30, 2008
    It's basically Oblivion, vast openworld sandbox full of things to discover is actually an enourmous void full of emotionless encounters. It's still worth playing in its own right and is more fun than Oblivion was on release but in no way does it do its name credit.

    I think the modders will have a field day with it though, if Bethesda release the tool that is. They turned Oblivion into a fantastic game and I reckon thats going to be even easier to do with the Fallout 3 world and mechanics. Some enterprising people may even find a way to make it more like the original games with new missions, storyline, locations and characters etc.

    I think its too early to bin this one just yet.
  6. ShatteredJon

    ShatteredJon It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Oct 29, 2008
    That's the only reason I still have the game installed on my PC; MODS. If they mod community is as active as the Oblivion community, we might actually be looking at a semi-decent Fallout sequel. *shudders at the phrase Fallout Sequel*
  7. golfmade

    golfmade It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Apr 9, 2008
    Perhaps silly thinking on my part but as soon as I left 101 I headed due west, away from the main quest. Recently made it to some small town (name is beyond me at the moment) with some chick that loves Nuka Cola. Then headed further south to some building with a bunch of ghouls inside it. Having fun just laying waste to stuff but I'm getting quite annoyed with things and I've not even started the main quest line yet. Perhaps it's best I explore the vast wilderness first then see what Megaton has to offer.
  8. Ausdoerrt

    Ausdoerrt I should set a custom tit

    Oct 28, 2008
    I've been trying to do that while not conflicting too much with Megaton quests, but I still fail to gain negative reputation. Can't wait till I get to blow up the place. I'm going to singlehandedly kill everyone there before I do though.

    At the same time, the amount of ammo some enemies make you to waste is ridiculous. We're talking Fire Ants here.
  9. Mztr44

    Mztr44 First time out of the vault

    Jun 25, 2007
    I'm still enjoying the game but I do have feelings that it could be so much more as far as depth in the world. I enjoy exploring and looking for interesting landmarks to explore but then I get into them and theres a lot of potential for a really interesting background story to an area but its just not there. For instance, I found Vault 106, ok cool, get in there find a terminal that talks about something making the inhabitants go crazy. I'm walking around and occasionally go into a hallucinatory state where I encounter people who don't really exist, or I start seeing the Vault as it was when it was pristine and new instead of dilapidated. Very awesome stuff, I was hoping to find some more terminals or maybe some holodisks with some background story as to what happened but alas, nothing. I found one scrap of paper with slightly incoherent babble that told me nothing about what happened. I didn't find Megaton the least bit interesting apart from the Moira quests to write the Survival guide. Shes my favorite NPC, she has the appearance of actually living a life in the wasteland with some kind of purpose whereas all the other NPCs are just cut and paste zombies. Moira so far is my only incentive to do another playthrough as a character who instead of giving her factual intelligent answers, lies my ass off and exaggerates all my answers.

    As for killing the super mutant behemoth, I hit a random hilarious glitch with him. I unlocked his cage and tossed a grenade in with VATS as he came running out. Somehow he launched into the air like superman in slow motion, not just a little bit either, he easily flew up to about the same height as Tenpenny Tower and then fell to his death. I've tried recreating the glitch just for fun but it hasn't happened again since.
  10. JOG

    JOG First time out of the vault

    Dec 17, 2007
    Well that's exactly what we remember from Oblivion, all those funky Havoc features used in the tutorial dungeon, the tight atmosphere in the Imperial City, the NPCs that really seemed to have a life.

    It's all targeted to get the journalist enjoy the first 5-10 hours before he writes his review. After that it's a waste of emptiness, you realize how stupid and single-minded the NPCs are, that this kind of scheduled AI was done better in Ultima VII 16 years ago, you realize the complete indifference of the gameworld to your actions, but then it's too late...

    Ironically, the emptiness is actually fitting to the Fallout scenario.

    As for mods... Games don't mod themselves, why should someone who doesn't like FO3 waste time modding the game, and why should someone who loves the game as it is, add stuff that he doesn't miss?
  11. Multidirectional

    Multidirectional Mildly Dipped

    Sep 12, 2008
    If everyone followed that logic.. Have you looked just how many mods there are for Morrowind or Oblivion ?
  12. superstartran

    superstartran First time out of the vault

    Oct 30, 2008

    Because, Fallout 3 has much potential to it. The Oblivion engine was easily modified, and with the correct addons, it was actually a decent game, if not great by some people's standards.

    Fallout 3 itself is actually pretty good. Not great, excellent, amazing, or any of those words. Just above average imo, which is saying alot of the game when you compare it to it's peers. However, the potential of the game itself for modification is vast, as there's alot of open space for you to work with.
  13. DCB

    DCB First time out of the vault

    Nov 1, 2008
    Unfortunately we pretty much all knew it was coming. Look at its parent Oblivion and you see template. It basically amounts to a wilderness sightseeing simulator. You spend the majority of your time wandering around a mostly empty overworld full of lame randomly generated dungeons and the occasional hostile creature/s. Then there's the lacklustre main plot that appears to be there more so as justification for it being labelled an RPG than anything else. It was a feature box to tick, nothing more.

    However sincere Bethesda may have been about delivering a true Fallout sequel, it was always clear that their design principles were going to make the game anything but. They were always (sadly) going to make it the same way they make their Elder Scrolls games.

    I stumbled onto Vault 106 and for a brief time I was pleasantly surprised. It looked like someone had sneaked into Bethesda's office in the middle of the night and written/scripted a compelling little dungeon. But of course the illusion didn't last long. Vault 106 pretty much sums up my feelings for Fallout 3: so full of promise, so lacking in delivery.
  14. JOG

    JOG First time out of the vault

    Dec 17, 2007
    Actually yes. I made quite a few Morrowind mods myself, and one for Oblivion (before I actually began playing the game. ) I'm still in contact with many first-hour Morrowind-modders, only a few of them play(ed) Oblivion, and none of them made mods for it. For a reason...

    It's 2 years after Oblivion's release now, and there isn't even half the number of mods Morrowind had in 2004... Sure, there are certain mod-categories where Oblivion outnumbers Morrowind by far, but let's say, those categories aren't that *appealing* to someone who is old enough to have played much more CRPGs than there are quest mods for Oblivion AND Morrowind.
  15. Szeder

    Szeder It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Sep 6, 2008
    I had great anticipations, looks like I was a naive fool. I thought that "okay, fps view? well, I will try to overlook it, VATS ? hmmmm I have no choice" I hoped that at least they could come up with in-depth, meaningful quests if nothing else but no! The level gameplay sometimes nears zero but mostly it stays well below it The characters feel static and artificial, the dialogues are infantile, the action is meant for effect. All in all the gameplay is simply non existent, and all those reviews and reviewers....what a disgrace! We live in a world where Troika goes bankrupt and they do not get support for that unreleased post apocalyptic rpg but "games" like this receive great reviews. Praise be consumerism, praise be the new generation with gamepads in their hands. There is nothing more to say about it.......a HUGE dissapointment
  16. DOF_power

    DOF_power First time out of the vault

    Oct 29, 2008
    "OK, fine, set the East Coast in that primitive world...but does it have to be so barren? Realism is one thing, but I play games for fun, and there are so many opportunities for fun that Bethesda didn't take up that it just ends up being depressing.

    It is mind boggling how far they were from the mark. In the original Fallouts, you encounter towns that have full histories waiting to be discovered. Mutant/human tension, gang warfare, etc. Here, there's none of that. It's just a big empty world with little going on. "

    Funny how I thought/found just the opposite.
  17. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    You're both right, though.

    Fallout 3 is filled to the brim with actions and events. There's small places all over the map and it's filled with animals and Super Mutants. Whereas in Fallout, most of the map was empty waste.

    However, once you get to populated areas Fallout's locations were much more fleshed out than Fallout 3's locations.

    If you look at it, there's only Megaton and Rivet City as fully fleshed out locations, the rest are just bit locations meant for one small thing. And most of those locations are very lacking in detail, although there are exceptions (Fort Constantine, some of the vaults coming to mind).
  18. zioburosky13

    zioburosky13 Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 24, 2004
    For once I was in the same camp with you, believing Bethesda will deliver a true fallout game.

    That was before I played TES Oblivion.

    My TES game experience is only limited to Morrowind and yet seeing how the TES series has been dumbing down, plus with same team and same overhyped PR machine, I was convinced Fallout 3 will be just another bastardized game.
  19. victor

    victor Antediluvian as Feck

    Dec 12, 2003
    Beth will make Fallout 4. With current sales, there's nothing to take the license away from them.

    We can only hope they'll decide to use different graphics and physics engines for the next game.

    And that Interplay never makes a Fallout MMORPGer.
  20. frosty_theaussie

    frosty_theaussie Still Mildly Glowing

    Nov 22, 2003
    Goddamnit yes. When are they finally going to drop Gamebyro/NetImmerse? There are so many limitations and it feels so goofy, so last-gen. Things like having to load a new area when entering houses is antiquated and doesn't feel immersive in the slightest, especially when every building has boarded up windows because they can't show you what's outside. And then we have NPCs fading in and out of buildings... holy hell, Bethesda hasn't made a single game where you could seamlessly enter buildings. It shouldn't be difficult now, even non-RPGs like GTA and others have managed it for some time now. That's just the start of it...