How did you discover Fallout ?

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by PsychoSniper, Jan 20, 2004.

  1. BigBoss

    BigBoss Your Local Scrub

    956
    Dec 24, 2012
    God damn did I hate that metro system in Fallout 3. Unless you had those points already discovered, you had to use it to get ANYWHERE in D.C.

    I remember as I was walking into the city, still on the outskirts a little bit near the Fallout 3 bunker, I started to walk along one of the streets sidewalks. Eventually I stepped on a sewer grate and heard a *clink* sound. What was that? Then my character falls into a sewer system full of raiders, still low on ammo. Fuck. Anyway I managed to get out of there with a few crippled limbs, only to find out I had to crawl through some more of them in order to get to the Mall area. Fuck that. I would have just sat down with a Fat Man and launched the mini nuke straight up into the air. See where it landed...

    Well, this is a year and three quarters, or over two years if my math is that bad, that you posted this so I doubt you will be checking in on it any time soon.

    But my first game was Fallout 1. It was 2002, maybe 2003 I can't remember. I was reading through some new gaming magazines while I waited for my doctor's appointment. About halfway through, I read an article that held, literally word for word, this as it's headlines;

    The Nuclear Apocalypse Won't Be Coming Anytime Soon

    Obviously this caught my attention. I was reading and apparently, "some game people were calling Van Buren" was apparently canceled. As I read into the article more, I learned about Interplay, Black Isle Studios and their financial problems. Then I learned, through the magazine's "insider source" at Interplay that Van Buren was the third "Fallout" game. The magazine hadn't said what Fallout was, however after explaining that Van Buren, or Fallout 3 as they were no referring to it was canceled, they explained the game's origins and what the game was about. At the end of the article, they said that there was rumors that Titus Software who was now the majority shareholder of Interplay was most likely going to sell the rights to Fallout.

    Anyway I decided to buy Fallout, it seemed interesting enough. I picked it up at one of those Office Supplies stores, you know the stores that still sell computer desk supplies and in the back they have a selection of Really old games? Well anyway I picked it up there. I ended up playing it and it captured the imagination of my teenage youth. Or in a less gay way, I liked the game. It's still remains my favorite Fallout game to date.

    Eventually I picked up Fallout 2 a few years late. Like Killa P said, the Temple of Trials was a complete throw off for me. I put it down, but it didn't take me years to pick it up again. I started playing it again within the next week or so. Eventually I finished the second Fallout, shrugged, said *it was ok*, and went back for another run on the first Fallout. Even still, I like Fallout 1 better than the second game, or any of the FO games.

    However, now that I think about it, I've only finished the first Fallout about 3 or 4 times, and the second Fallout maybe twice.

    Kind of like Killa P, I've been putting all my time into doing something special in my appreciation of the game, though what I'm working on hasn't been in the making for years like his RP mod. I'm working on a novelization of the first Fallout.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2014
  2. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    There are a few metro that are used nicely, but with 30-60 locations like that, you end up mostly seeing the same layout, with the same ghouls in it.
    They would have made less of them, they wouldn't be so hated.
     
  3. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    That's HOW I got anywhere in D.C., because just clicking a button and magically appearing at my destination really killed the game, for me. Walking there was much more fun. It would've been more fun if I didn't have compass markers holding my hand and perhaps had to rely on faded scribbles lining the walls in conjunction with the pre-war map kiosks present in the metros, because THAT'S an immersive experience. It's not when rubble blocking your path and forcing you to use these metros tunnels and sewers JUST so you can see a different group of raiders every time that are supposedly telling their own story. I really liked the metro system of 3, I just wish that the overall level of destruction had been consistent with the rest of the city (same old "WHY is the Capitol building still standing 200 years later after getting hit by nukes???" discrepancy) and that there was more complexity to it. Getting lost in a massive maze of pockets of surface ruins and endless tunnels connecting it all with no way out but the exits themselves would have been delightful gameplay. Far more delightful than hoarding 30 Quantums just to deliver them to some otaku bitch in a "town" that makes no goddamned sense, or most of the other quests for that matter.....

    - - -

    Considering the trend to explain the details behind their stories, I'd explained that I got the dual-jewel CDs of the first 2 games from a friend after watching him play it back in 2000, then I played them sequentially, and I got more and more sucked into the series when I learned that my very simplistic "get good gear and kill shit" approach was just one of many that I could use to beat the game. I hadn't heard of Per's work (by that time I don't think he had a FO1 guide nor that his FO2 guide was very far along) but somehow I had heard of the myriad of possibilities. I know my friend pointed out a couple (he once instructed me to pay for a night at the inn in Junktown, and the rest that followed was me SOMEHOW talking a raider out of a hostage situation, despite lacking much of any decent Speech skill, or practice in using it) but how I heard about the rest is lost to my memory.

    I started on FO2 instantly upon finishing FO1, and like many have stated, the Temple "threw me off", but not enough to warrant a pause in playing the game. It was too easy so I kept going. I noticed the drastic change in tone (and that nagged me for the rest of the game) but I only "stopped" playing when I got to The Den and had no idea what I was doing or where to go. Getting Vault City on my Pipboy led me to believe that was my next destination, but Vic was still in captivity, and I passed by Modoc because I didn't know it (like Shady Sands from the first game) was "meant" to be a stopping point, and because my system was making my compass market zip across the screen too fast to change direction without getting dizzy and walking in gigantic miles-wide circles. I was so woefully outmatched by the tiniest of critters and the weakest of foes and I was trying to scavenge supplies but kept coming up broke as fuck that I put the game down after a few days, shocked at how much harder it was than the first, and feeling like I couldn't get into it because of it. It was then that I found Per's Ultimate FO2 guide, learned some of the key kernels of wisdom I had been so utterly oblivious to, and the rest is history. FO2 still remains my favorite installment in the series, despite its bug-riddled official release state, partially BECAUSE of that significantly scaled up difficulty. The far richer setting and greater assemblage of conflicts to find myself in keep me coming back, but the challenge in approaching it every step of the way keeps me entertained while doing it. =)
     
  4. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    Quite funny.
    I also got Fo2 in the early 2000s, but also had (don't know how/why) a little book with walkthrough for many games, including Fo2.
    I even think that i had this book before the game. But the book was very straightforward into the main quest, with a few sidequest providing big reward.
    I did far more that what was on this little book, but it was like a general quest marker. (on a side note, the little book asked me to kill Tubby to get his stuff)
    But anyway, i was already the kind of player that try to get all the lines for each npc, even the one that angry them (couple this with save scumming)
    So i knew that i had to look for the Den, thanks to Jenny.
    Also, talking to everyone unlock talking quests that provides more than half the XP i needed to finish the game.

    This is one of the thing i miss the most with new games.
    In Fo1-Fo2 you could spend 80% of your time talking with npc. You were less forced to fight than Baldur's gate, for instance.
    In Fo3-FoNV, you spend 90% of your time running into empty locations, fight generic monsters, loot chests. And many of the populated areas that you find doesn't fullfill my need for npc talk.
     
  5. BigBoss

    BigBoss Your Local Scrub

    956
    Dec 24, 2012
    You know there's ways to play the game without using the marker right? You can uncheck your quest and the marker won't appear, forcing you to rely on your own instincts. Or you can check a completely different quest so that you will be forced to ignore the marker. Either way, there's ways to play the game without using the marker. I did it on my second playthrough. Still used fast travel though, since it's much more convenient, kind of like the travel map in the first two Fallout's. The game didn't force you to take each individual step when you were walking from town to town (unless for RP purposes, you personally stopped on each square and made your character walk across each desert square until you got to the next town. Which would be fucking tedious, just like walking across the entire map in Fallout 3 or NV.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
  6. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    Having believable way to speed the travel would have been great, but Beth prefered the game breaking magical cheating lazyness. Sure it is convenient, mainly because they never had to think of alternatives. You walk the whole way or you teleport, and that's it.
     
  7. TMNTSPYVSSPY

    TMNTSPYVSSPY First time out of the vault

    19
    Apr 23, 2014
    Gamers' under $10 bin... I got the Ultimate Edition of New Vegas
     
  8. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    That advice is like saying I can play Halo with my friends and not worry about them Screen Cheating because we agreed not to. Having to personally endeavor a solution to a problem neither fixes the problem nor does it address that the problem is there to begin with. It's ignoring the problem, but it's STILL THERE. My friends would always Screen Cheat because they assured me it was hard not to look at my half/quarter of the screen while we were playing, and they were right. The problem was real, and there was no getting around it, even if we endeavored to fix it ourselves. Players who go out of their way to limit themselves or enhance the challenge themselves are simply enhancing their own experiences with the game, and under those circumstances those are wonderful activities. But players having to undergo their own PERSONAL solutions for glaringly poor design problems, or actual bugginess problems, are NOT wonderful activities; they're activities that shouldn't have been necessary to begin with. It's the tired old argument of "Just mod the game, problem solved" all over again, disregarding the fact that the GAME is riddled with problems because SOMEONE ELSE (not the developers) created a workaround solution. That's stupid.
     
  9. Evitherator

    Evitherator First time out of the vault

    4
    May 20, 2014
    Hello all! I am a newcomer to this site. I think it may be the only place where I'm not the biggest fallout fanboy. At age 16 I mentioned to my friend that I like post-apocalypse stories. He said he knew a game like that, that it was a funny, interesting and a very old pc game. At this point I was very new to pc gaming, he needed to walk me though every step of the way of fallout 2. If it weren't for him I would have never made it past the locked door in the temple of trials. But I thought it was great, then it started building and building until I knew everything about that game. I surpassed him in lore/game/mechanic/mod knowledge in months. I have played through fallout 2 every year since.

    One day I played for 5 hours, and I loved every second of it. I told this to my other friend. He said, "Oh man, that's gotta depress you." I said, "Why? I was playing the greatest game ever made."
     
  10. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    Well said. =)

    Welcome to NMA!
     
  11. TheMaskedMan

    TheMaskedMan First time out of the vault

    24
    May 23, 2008
    When I was 12 I got my first computer and I searched for a website to download PC game demos. Now When I encountered Fallout I didn't know what kind of game it was. All I knew at the time is that It was really fun and I kept playing the demo over and over. Once I found it again for 10 bucks as a Double pack(fallout 1 & 2) the rest was history.
     
  12. BigBoss

    BigBoss Your Local Scrub

    956
    Dec 24, 2012
    Well why not? There's problems that we were forced to ignore in Fallout 2, such as it's massive amount of bugs. Because if not then our conversation is getting into the general design of all games. That's like saying "I shouldn't have to be forced to deal with bugs because I payed 60+ dollars for this game", or when your watching TV, saying "I shouldn't be forced to deal with commercials since I'm paying for this", or an even better example, say you have a satellite dish for television and it rains/thunders one day, and your TV goes out. You say "I shouldn't have to deal with this because I pay the satellite company. Or even better, if their's a blackout in the city, you say "I shouldn't have to deal with this because I pay my bills". Your expecting perfection (or perfection to your own individual ideals and opinions), and expecting the designers to avoid an inevitability. They added the marker for people not used to Fallout, or people who don't want to play a game where they are not given any information whatsoever on what they have to do. But they also gave the user the option of NOT using the marker. Just like Fallout 3/Van Buren was to give the play the option of choosing to use real time gameplay of turn-based. It was there, but that doesn't mean you have to use it. That's like getting Van Buren, seeing the option for real-time, and flipping out "What the fuck, I shouldn't have to deal with this, and be forced to go waaaaaaaaaaaay out of my way to click this button and choose. This is too overwhelming, and a shitty design choice of the part of the developers. Fuck this, this game sucks!". Like I said, you also expecting them to adhere to each particular individual. Large companies that focus on selling products don't go after an individual, they go after masses. I would do it all the time, for either RP purposes or to enhance the gameplay the way I wanted it. We can't expect the makers of the game to attempt to make the game that would adhere to and please each individual. That would be... well it would be fucking impossible. Fallout 3 wouldn't even be halfway done. Doing this just lets me play it in my own way. It's not that I didn't like the game that they made, but I have my own idea's on how to enhance it and, since I'm not on their design team and unless I know how to mod the game, I go out of my way to incorporate them in my own way.

    Let's say you're selling fucking, I don't know... chocolates. But let's say your chocolate company isn't HUGE, but is growing to be pretty sizable. You have a stake in the chocolate game all over the state, some of the surrounding states, and your the largest chocolate producer in your city, but your not national, nor even international yet. Your barely becoming regional. Your 'inventory' you have two dozen storage sheds filled with boxes of your new chocolate bar, and on top of that, you have your own personal warehouse which manufacturers your chocolate products which belongs to your company, and you don't have to pay anyone to make your shit for you. you have a wave of employee's working for you, including salespersons, telemarketers, Vice-President's of marketing, and all that. Do you think your company will last long if you direct your salespersons to go from door to door to attempt to sell one to three chocolate bar's at a time, or if you send your salespersons to Wal-Marts and Albertsons, or candy stores and offer to strike a deal where you will sell them boxes of your shit every month. If you go door-to-door, you will be pleasing each particular individual by allowing them to pick and choose what they want. But, probably over 50% of your 'clients' won't want the chocolate, and when you do make a sell, it will be in extremely low numbers. Your company is way to large for that. So you chocolate scientists, taste testers, and all that shit. You hold a meeting with them, and tell them to find out what "people" like. So they go and do survey's, create new experimental products, and come up with new ideas. Finally, they bring your your next product, a chocolate bare that about 70% of your customers are going to love, another 10% will be 'OK' with, and the rest are going to hate. Then you ask them how you can please each individual, and they bring you a list which has the opinions and recommendations of the individuals who didn't like your chocolates. You find these all vary differently, and you would have to create several different products, which would not sell at mass quantities but instead is something that only appears to a smaller group of individuals. So instead you say put our new chocolate product out on the line now, and if they don't like it, they can go back and get one of our older products they do like. They don't have to eat our new product, but were not going to put our company in financial jeopardy because one guy wanted a special kind of peanut in the chocolate that only grows in Cambodia.

    So then, to please your other 20% that didn't like it, you come up with the "make your own chocolate bar" idea. Chocolate's you can specially order what you want on your chocolate bar. It's still going to be YOUR companies chocolate, and if the consumers don't like that there's not much you can do about it. But, your giving them the choice to customize it. Do you want peanuts? Do you want almonds? maybe put a peanut butter cream on the inside.

    These are just examples of business tactics Bethesda uses. Business tactics that work.

    Fallout 1 and 2 is all about using your imagination. Doing what I described above, including with the FO 3 marker, is also about using your imagination. Basically though, your telling me you shouldn't have to go through the "trouble" of using your imagination because you paid for the game and it's the designers responsibilities to make you not have to rely upon your imagination whatsoever.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2014
  13. fevermario

    fevermario First time out of the vault

    9
    May 26, 2014
    My introduction to the fallout universe was when i was around 8 or 9 years old. My older sister had Fallout New Vegas and she played it all the time. I often watched her play it. And one day. She let me play it a little bit. I mainly fooled around shooting weapons from the inventory in random directions. But unfortunately my time with New Vegas was cut short when it was time to get ready to leave to go out to eat for dinner. She never thought to let me play it again. Then one day, years later i decided i wanted to have it for my Xbox. So i got it for Christmas. And played it a fair ways through but put it down for a while because i started going through a pokemon phase. But sometime two years ago, I decided i wanted to try fallout 3, So i bought the goty edition off steam. I played it for a while and thought it was okay, but i felt a sudden yearning to go back to New Vegas. So i looked around on steam and i noticed that Fallout New Vegas ultimate edition was on sale. I thought about it a while but i realized that i never played any of the dlcs and i didn't feel like creating a xbl account and buying all the dlcs individually, so i thought what the hell and bought it. And this time i played it all the way through and LOVED it! [and modded it almost to death] But about halfway through my 2nd playthrough i grew curious about what the earlier entries of the series were like, and one of my friends had a copy of the first one lieing around and let me borrow it. From the moment the intro started playing i was hooked! And my love only grew the farther into the game i got. For obvious reasons, i asked my father to get me the first two for christmas. And he got me a cd that had both games and tactics. And the rest is history.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
  14. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    BigBoss>
    There is no option to turn it off.
     
  15. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    No, my argument is not that flights of fancy be observed but that people such as yourself not pardon a faulty product because someone OTHER THAN THE CREATOR endeavored a solution to the problem. There is no similarity whatsoever between people making unreasonable demands of their services because they can't accept that shit happens, and people who rightfully ask that flaws not be overlooked like fools because turning a blind eye makes you feel better about it. There IS no excuse for the terrible porting Dark Souls suffered when it transitioned from consoles to the PC that was solved by modders, not by FROMsoft. There IS no excuse for promising a finished product that includes an entire experience with one purchase only to deliver a splintered series of fragments held hostage by the price tag of DLCs. There IS no excuse for a contrived and abusive freemium system that "comes to the relief" of product owners because of frustrations stemming from the developers themselves selling solutions to the problems they designed.

    It's responsibility and recognizing where responsibility may lie without blindly turning away from these things, to point out the obvious: that a buggy, poorly-designed mess of a product IS a buggy, poorly-designed mess of a product, and someone ELSE coming to the rescue doesn't change that one bit. It's level-headed assessment and practicality in approaching something for what it is, not contriving some bullshit excuse, when you realize that an inherent game mechanic is jarring and disruptive to the overall game despite the excuse of "but you can just not use it", and that it is NOTHING like 2 different combat systems designed alongside each other with the explicit intention that allows you to switch from one to the other. You're suggesting that mistakes be pardoned because someone else (who was inconvenienced by these mistakes, as we all were) went out of there way to fix them, when in fact those mistakes should be recognized for what they are. You're suggesting that inherent design choice is on the same level as the personal choice of turning the game off, when they're vastly different things; because one is a mechanic, a process undergone by consequence of deliberate design, and the other is simply avoiding the mechanic altogether and circumventing the choice itself. You're suggesting ignorance, or that one bad deed necessitates another, or that all complaints are meaningless because meaningless complaints exist, and that's a collection of utter absurdity.

    As I mentioned, the games have problems, and your contrived excuses do not pardon those problems. Rather, that simply underline the presence of those problems, that someone such as yourself has to go out of his own way to NOT feel inconvenienced by them, and you can't even recognize the difference.

    Why do I get the feeling that you story ends abruptly before you could finish? I dunno, it just felt like the arc of "discovery" to "resolution" ended before it could reach the conclusion of "and the rest is history".
     
  16. Night_Shade

    Night_Shade First time out of the vault

    19
    Feb 14, 2014
    I got into Fallout a bit oddly. I first saw Fallout 3 in some store's new games section. Once I noticed the "3" part, I set it down and looked for Fallout 1. I spent some time looking and didn't find it. After some time, I just forgot about it. My little pony came out late in 2010. I am a bit nerdy, so I sat down and enjoyed one of my favorite sites; thatguywiththeglasses.com. For many months they made My little pony jokes and references. I thought nothing of it. One of the reviewers (CR) does almost nothing but reviews characters of movies and shows. He, one day in 2011, had a review for all the My little ponies... in two parts and a bit condensed. The first halve (only Gen 1, 2, 3, and 3.5) didn't really move me. The old stuff didn't look/sound/seem anything like what I enjoyed. In part two, however, I found a lot more to like about Gen 4 (something I didn't know about at all).

    So I gave The new one a chance. I loved it! I have been in many fandoms, and never felt compelled to look into fanfiction... So when I stumbled upon some on youtube, I was shocked to find myself liking it. So I dove into My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic fan fiction. I found Fallout Equestria (Fallout and MLP:FiM crossover). It made me look up Fallout again. I found some (legally questionable) copies of Fallout 1 and 2. I got very mad when my laptop's motherboard fried halve way into Fallout 2. I was lucky enough to get to GOG's last giveaway of the Fallout Trilogy. I plan on replaying both Fallout 1 and Fallout 2, and play Fallout Tactics for the first time... when possible. I have a no way of playing Fallout 3 or New Vagus, but I watch playthroughs, and can't wait till I have the money for a good PC. I'm not good at using mods, but I still try with Fallout 1, and will once I get back into Fallout 2.

    So in short, I got into a dark, mature, kinda gory RPG, by watching My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. I laugh about it to this day.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  17. BigBoss

    BigBoss Your Local Scrub

    956
    Dec 24, 2012

    But in this instance, "flaws" are a matter of opinion. You call the FO 3 marker a flaw, other's praise it as ingenuity. This cannot be judged on a basis of facts, but is rather biased toward the individual opinion of the dedicated consumer. Your 'excuses' are simply business ethics of the modern capitalist world embedded with entrepreneur ideals brought into the gaming industry. No one is trying to pretend bugs don't exist. No one is trying to say that it's not the developers fault whatever bugs the game holds do infact reside and continue to harass in an ever-angering circle of flawed AI designs. However, to say that you expect the people who make the games you so personally pick and choose out of your own individual free will to take the extra time and cash which they didn't have in order to find input solutions to every tiny thing such as losing a random item out of your inventory when you walk into a zone governed by an impartial disfigured AI that didn't function at the 100% output the developers created, or wanted it to. This is plainly impossible not just in the business world, but for AI and computer manufacturing as a whole. To expect them to go through and pick every little bug out of the AI with a tiny pair of digital tweezers. This is time consuming, financially depleting, and physically exhausting to the developers. You're expecting the something created by an imperfect being to be perfect. It's kind of like the logic what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.

    To expect a game to be perfect, or even near perfect on account of bugs, or whatever, is expecting the impossible. Not even Fallout 2 could achieve this. It's take Killa P what, 8 years of his life to achieve what he's done and there are still probably hundreds of tiny bugs hidden in the Fallout 2 master.dat document, engine/AI. Not to mention that games have deadlines.

    Anyway, these supposedly "excuses" you are bringing up are nothing more than unrealistic efforts of the consumer base to expect imperfection creating perfection. Fallout 3 cannot be crafted to perfection when the first two were far from it themselves.

    This argument could go on forever... let's just agree to disagree and preserve the friendship (or message board-ship).
     
  18. naossano

    naossano So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 19, 2006
    I thought i was one of the rare people that bought his first Fallout without knowing anything about the franchise, but your story beat anyone's.
    You radiations are well deserved.
     
  19. Night_Shade

    Night_Shade First time out of the vault

    19
    Feb 14, 2014
    Thank you my good Muty :cool:
     
  20. BigBoss

    BigBoss Your Local Scrub

    956
    Dec 24, 2012
    What's up with the My Little Pony fascination coming into the Fallout universe? Not that I have anything against it, I'm just baffled how two completely different series could find a kinship.

    I understand that there are women who like MLP and Fallout both, but I never understood grown men who have taken the same fascination... (no offense to any MLP fans that are indeed grown men, just pointing out that it is beyond me, and takes a better mind then mine to understand it).