How would you have re-done Fallout 3's lore?

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by Sn1p3r187, Mar 4, 2018.

  1. Sn1p3r187

    Sn1p3r187 Carolinian Shaolin Monk

    Apr 7, 2014
    Well I was inspired to do this after reading a thread here. Some of the thread related to lore related people, creatures, events, and general story. Such as super mutants, ghouls, the area of D.C., Slavers, settlements, mercenary groups, and raiders. And I would like to know. How would you guys have re-done the lore to Fallout 3? Without having the re-use what was established in Fallout 1 and 2 and make it's own thing. Which would mean- No Vault 87 Super Mutants. Sorry guys. So how would you have done it?
  2. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    Depends on the location. I really don't understand why Beth re-used elements that were exclusive to Cali.

    SM research was concentrated in Mariposa for security reasons until the mutiny and its eventual abandonment by base personnel.

    I think ghouls were explained as a human who was ravaged by both radiation AND residual FEV.

    There could have been vaults in DC, I wouldn't disagree there.

    So yeah, in a nutshell, Beth should have spent more time researching all of the Fallout assets they got when they purchased the IP. Kaisers Legion is supposed to be in charge over most of the eastern U.S., so that could have been thoroughly explored. Maybe some kind of insurrection by a Legate??
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  3. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    Here are some broadstrokes off the top of my head.

    BoS and becomes an original east coast faction which, through civil war also produces the equivalent of the Enclave. They would also have a connection to the vaults. Maybe they're the remnants of the puppet gov, that the Enclave was in control of. Either way it all becomes allegorical to the the founding of America. With wasters as the indigenous people, vaulters and the once unified BoS/Enclave thing are colonialists, which once split become a proxy for patriots and loyalists.

    Instead of supermutants it would be a new plague thing, or some other biothreat that comes out of the vaults; representing the contagions that explorers and colonialists brought to the Americas. So it mostly affects wasters, and is somewhat secretly used against them by the vault dwellers. Who are more susceptible to the naturally occurring contagions, whose modern strains are proving difficult to develop vaccines for.

    Vault 101 would genuinely be a vault that never opens. The PC was born there, but the experiment goes awry anyway. Possibly a microcosm of the above conflict as a way of foreshadowing it, and providing some kind of frame of reference with which to interpret a much larger, slow boil story. As I would have the side quests feed into the main narrative more. Not as much as NV, but far closer to that than anything else.

    As a result everyone has to flee the vault, for one reason or another. So the prologue first presents an idyllic vision of the perfect vault, as understood through the eyes of a child. Then in your teenage years you the veil is lifted, the illusion shattered, and you start to see how messed up everything really is. The third act would be like one of the stories told in the ruined vaults that became typical with Fo3. So it would be a horror survival kind of thing I suppose, with drama tied to whatever pathos could be built up for the mostly dying characters of the first two acts of the prologue. Maybe you get to save a certain amount, and get to decide who specifically so you can see that there are consequences not just to ending lives but also to saving them...instead of just raising your karma score.

    So your main quest starts off with trying to figure out what the hell is wrong the vaults. Which leads you to the BoS/Enclave equivalents and that whole conflict. Thus leaving it mostly open, without making it sidetrack. Since most of the characters you can talk to might have an opinion about the subject, and you know nothing about the wasteland, you'd also have two excuses to always play detective.
  4. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Fossil

    Apr 7, 2017
    Drop BoS and Enclave from the story. Come up with a new faction or factions instead.

    Drop Super Mutants and add some new mutated enemy in its place. Something not in the franchise yet.

    Make the plot about something else besides trying to get clean water. No Geck or anything in the previous games. Just something new.

    Replacing the intro with something where i can ACTUALLY roleplay as someone i want and not something the developers want to. No handholding or other nonsense and not take at least half an hour before i can actually play.

    Basically, just make an entirely new game.
    • [Like] [Like] x 6
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  5. DarkCorp

    DarkCorp Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Oct 27, 2003
    I like the idea about the vault that was never intended to open, a variation of the un-willing hero.

    By the time of F3, Kaiser Legion is is only starting to consolidate power so there is a lot of potential.

    Even though a robotic enemy is pretty cliche by now, it can still be used along with the usual raiders.

    We could use atleast some of Victor Prespers ideas, minus the B.O.M.B. 001 and ULYSSES. TBH, his arc is actually pretty good. A lot of it has to do with the growing corruption and mis-management of the NCR and his eventual dis-illusionment. The NCR alone, could actually provide a lot of antagonists and protagonists as well.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  6. IamDaEmper0r

    IamDaEmper0r First time out of the vault

    Jul 25, 2016
    Personally I have been considering the idea of a battle between a Northern Collection of states(FSA) and a southern collection of states(CSA), over control of DC and the Columbian Commonwealth. The complication is that DC itself is mainly run by high tech survivalists, due to the amount of radiation in DC proper, most people communities have to be very high tech to survive.

    This radiation causes several problems, firstly it means that most large farms are impossible, due to the need for plentiful water, and the radiation combined with East Coast FEV experiments has produced a highly aggressive mutated strain of humans, who have highly variable appearances and fill the role of late game enemies. These mutants dwell in the parts of DC that matter, namely the vast spiders web of pre-war bunkers, due to the surface of DC being so blasted as to have destroyed it in all but its entirety. The Survivalists attempt to scavenge technology for use in production or replication, so that it can be sold to the outside world.

    It is for this reason that the conflict arises. Namely that the CSA and FSA seek to control the region for two different reasons, the FSA wants to use it as resource extraction for a war with Ronto, and the CSA want to use it to become an industrial area, something the CSA with its focus on Agriculture lacks. Finally, the BOS have recently moved into the area in their quest to locate and secure the highly powerful weapons in DC, namely the unassembled legion of Liberty Primes, as well of the establishment of Columbia as a semi-independent vassal state. The knowledge of these robots is a late game secret and their capture is one of the FSA's aims, so as to wrap up its war with Ronto quickly. Similarly, you can aid a native faction of Power Armored descendants of parts of the Pre-War US Marine Corps, to secure the Independence of Columbia, these I would name the Regulators.

    On the larger factions there are several points. The FSA is similar to the NCR however it is more industrial and probably more developed, however they are relatively uninterested in the rights of the DC Subjects, in many cases not granting them citizenship so as to be able to abuse them. So most of their advocates espouse the very real trade benefits, namely how they will be tied into luxuries unable to be had otherwise. They also have taken to dumping prisoners in DC to work as scavengers, similar to the Powder Gangers. Comparatively the CSA is deeply racist, having descended from segregated Pre-War Vaults, but are relatively interested in making the lives of its White wastelanders better, often at the expense of the large black population. The BOS are interested in making wastelanders lives better but in a detached paternalistic way, through the dearming of the region, and the annihilation of the mutants, which all parties want. They also want to use DC's technological prowess to fuel their war machine. Finally the Regulators, would be a relatively difficult path to follow, can be modelled into several different paths, some of those can be to model themselves after the surrounding factions, be that FSA, CSA, or BOS, or they can be moulded into their own group, that emphasise their own traditions, namely of being Wild West Type lawmen, only in 7ft tall heavily armored war machinery.

    In terms of History, the FSA and CSA I think are pretty self-explanatory, but if anyone has questions they can ask me. But on the Regulators, they are at the start of the game in a bit of a decline, this is due to the fact that with the rise of Shipping in the FSA, on a large scale, something they developed due to the war with Ronto, their position as the Tollmen of DC has been threatened, and so at the start of the game they have lost a lot of control. However on the BOS, I dont actually think Beths lore is that bad, just that they need to be based in Raven Rock, not in the Pentagon.

    With this setup I would also add in some minor factions, who can be moulded into larger groups based on your actions in the game. For example, a group of Christian Tribals named the Appalachians, for the area they reside in, who control the vital region of Shenandoah, which is the main food producing region for DC, and as such the rural CSA seeks to break it. Raiders would include escaped FSA prisoners, drug fuelled Raiders, a biker gang type that threatens the roads used to transport coal into Columbia. Similarly, there would be a variety of towns, such as Charlottesville, Richmond, and Baltimore. The towns in Virginia would be independent however the CSA would be attempting to take them over, due to the decline of the Regulators, who would be largely unable to oppose it. Comparatively, Baltimore would be the primary northern town, and its largely Black Population, are it would be a scavenging/industrial town. The furthest afield west you can go would be Charleston, which is currently facing a similar problem as Richmond and Charlottesville, where the CSA is attempting to gain control of it, however here it is more a case of the Mine owners wanting to take control of the town, and they happen to be CSA men.

    But if anyone has questions on this fire away.

    N.B. the BOS are more in line with the BOS from fo4, however do actually want to preserve technology.
  7. TerminallyChill

    TerminallyChill Be excellent to each other.

    Feb 16, 2018
    Washington DC, being the masssive target that it was during the war, would still be an irradiated, storm plagued hell hole. (Think of the Divide or the Glowing Sea.) The environment would be horrifically hostile and you could basically only go above ground with radiation suits and power armor.

    The game would begin with you being exiled from your Vault for an unknown reason. You'd end up in a cave and find a small group of people surviving, including a guy who was also exiled from the Vault. He would tell you a little backstory and about the world outside. The group would then decide that if you want to stay, you have to go outside and gather supplies.

    Outside you'd find another well armed group with power armor who are looking for recruits. Their mission is to rid the DC area of the ungodly abominations that have sprung from the radiation. (Think centaurs, but more disgusting and varried.) They will send you on suicide missions along with a small group of others if you decide to join. They are familiar with the Brotherhood of Steel and have made contact in the past with mixed results.

    Robots are not affected by radiation so they have done well and are numerous. Some are hostile, some are friendly. Many broadcast propaganda from a radio signal which you can pick up and track. A mechanical genius belives that robots are superior to humans because they have survived in this landscape when people did not. He reprograms them to prioritize building exact copies of themselves, so this is why their numbers are increasing exponentially. They are using up the few precious human resources in DC to do this.

    A mutated woman who lives in the metro tunnels believes (somewhat like the Master in Fallout) that the disfigured plants and animals of the wasteland are the best chance for DNA based life to continue, and is in direct opposition to the group who is trying to exterminate everything but humans. She would be considered an "abomination" by the group and killed if they found her. She feeds many of the animals and they are loyal to her.

    The major endings are to choose to help the guy with his robots, the chick with her animals, or the purifier guys with their mission. Or none of them. If you play your cards right, you can even call in the Brotherhood of Steel from the west coast at the end to help eliminate the robots using the other group's contacts.

    Suck my creative cock, Bethesda.
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  8. IamDaEmper0r

    IamDaEmper0r First time out of the vault

    Jul 25, 2016
    I would say that this does some pretty interesting, however if this is still set 200 years after the war, why is it that there are no Civilisations other than the BOS, trying to control the DC wasteland, considering the fact that it should have a lot of High Tech stuff, considering its status as the capital, of the US.
  9. TerminallyChill

    TerminallyChill Be excellent to each other.

    Feb 16, 2018
    Simple, the DC area is so prohibitively radioactive and destroyed that it isn't deemed strategic for any faction other than the most idealistic, well equipped groups to venture inside. It's isolated. The purifier faction has old military equipment so they can navigate the area relatively safely, plus they have a goal there, to kill off mutated life. The Brotherhood of Steel has sent scouts to major US cities looking for tech that could help them get an edge on the NCR, and because of this, they know that the robot problem in DC is out of hand and will eventually spread across the continent if left unchecked. However, they are reluctant to exhaust resources on that now while they are fighting a war back west. Everybody else in DC either lives underground, has mutated, or is a robot. You're only there because you lived in the Vault.

    I like how in your version you had some rebuilt governments similar to the NCR but I find a lot of the political stuff to be a bit tedious, especially when it's coming from two different factions instead of just one. It would be cool to have minor interactions with outside governments, but I would keep their role in the game very subtle.
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  10. IamDaEmper0r

    IamDaEmper0r First time out of the vault

    Jul 25, 2016
    Yeah, this does make more sense, I just found it wasnt very well explained in the OP. But I would say this idea does sound much more like a survival horror game, than any of the previous fallouts, if you wanted to convey this feeling well. Now while this is a cool idea, and I would like to see it officially made, I think it sort of breaks with the previous fallout tradition of advancing the "civilisational level" of the world, to sort of show how people dont really change, despite their environment.

    Yeah I do understand that, I just found that in fo1 and fo2 my favourite parts were where you got to decide the fate of towns or cities, e.g. Gecko, Junktown, Shady Sands, Necropolis etc. So whatever floats your boat and all that.

    That is also why I tried to include several different choices, one of the clear ones being whether or not to hand over the Liberty Primes, because in my mind, there would be a part where you get confronted with the fact that, really none of these people should get 40ft Death Machines, along with who to side with.
  11. TerminallyChill

    TerminallyChill Be excellent to each other.

    Feb 16, 2018
    I mean, the tradition was only set previously by two games. Fallout 3 was supposed to be kind of a reboot and personally I like the tone of the original Fallout the best. That's not to say I don't like the town politics and deciding the fate of factions. I would of course include that in the game, they would just remain on a small scale to reinforce the desperate setting. Personally, I like my post-apocalyptic fiction to be really dystopian. I'm a big anti-nuclear weapon advocate in real life. Honestly, if I had to change Fallout 3 further than the minor adjustments I made, it would be totally different. It would only take place several decades after the war, and yeah, it would probably be like a survival horror/RPG hybrid. Like... Bioshock, Dead Space, and Fallout maybe? I just find that tone more appropriate. Especially for DC. If it took place out west, I would probably make it closer to the Mad Max movies with highway robbers and resource wars.

    I of course appreciate your compliments if you really think my Mechanist vs. Antagonizer version of Fallout 3 is worthy of being official. Maybe one day I will make a true post-apocalyptic game. I just felt like Fallout already tackled the subject matter well enough that I could go somewhere else with the genre. The game I am developing currently as a spiritual successor to New Vegas does have retro post-apocalyptic imagery but it's highly comedic and about an unscrupulous, failing Walmart/Target/Kmart style superstore that's getting its ass handed to it by online retail. Consumerism is just as relevant a topic to criticize as war mongering in my eyes. But hey maybe someday my Fauxlout 3 will turn into something real, too.
  12. IamDaEmper0r

    IamDaEmper0r First time out of the vault

    Jul 25, 2016
    I mean if you want to take OP literally, it does say the Lore, and time scale is a part of the Lore, so I dont see why it can't be 40 years after the bombs dropped, or 70 like the original.

    Seems interesting will have to watch out for if it gets released.
  13. TerminallyChill

    TerminallyChill Be excellent to each other.

    Feb 16, 2018
    I was just trying to change Fallout 3 as little as possible while still fixing it. Hence why I used existing concepts like being exiled from a vault in Washington DC, teaming up with a power armored goodie two-shoes faction, and having a robot dude be at odds with a creature controlling woman. I guess I could change the timeline too, but I just felt like it was unnecessary.

    Ha, if being the key word there. I wouldn't hold your breath on that. Feel free to message me if you want updates, though.
  14. CT Phipps

    CT Phipps Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Sep 17, 2016
    Most people would say, "Change everything because I hate everything."

    I'd be different.

    * The BoS in the East Coast is a branch of the Midwest BoS.
    * The Super Mutants in the area are survivors of the Masters army.
    * The Little Lamplighters are mutants and adults with childlike bodies who try to sell you to the Super Mutants they have a deal with.
    * Much more lore to listen to.
    * The ability to join the Enclave.

    The End.
  15. Sublime

    Sublime It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jun 5, 2018
    Replace super mutant with any self aware mutant. They might even be the evolution of some animals. This is how I picture them:

    Their goal is to wipe out humanity, as they argue humans have had their time and eventually destroyed the planet, and now it's [Insert Mutant name] time.

    Just like SP in Fallout 3 they have outposts scattered around the wasteland, used as military bases to attack human settlements and travellers. However it's unknown where their civilian population lives, - the player eventually discovers it's Vault 87

    Regarding their structure, most of the mutants occupy the bottom of the hierarchy because they're too stupid to command. A limited group in the population, with average human tier intelligence represents low tier officers that fight among themselves for positions of power. However most of the upper class is formed by the most intelligent.

    While it seems they are rather stupid, there is actually a precise plan behind the actions of individuals groups

    I Also believe that settlements should be reworked as believable cities.

    - Canterbury Commons is the powerhouse of the area, seeking control over other towns. Their economy relies on trade both in the region and outside of it. They are the strongest and best protected city. They're enemies with the Brotherhood of Steel, because they want technological weapons for themselves to have a military edge

    - Megaton is a theocracy (maybe something less crazy than the followers of the Atom). Their economy relies on agriculture

    - Rivet City is kind of a Thief/Free town as it's the center of all the scavengers and criminals roaming in the ruins of DC. It's ruled by criminal cartels and relies on a gambling/drug/prostitution economy. The city is hostile to the Brotherhood because they've driven away scavengers from the city (their main customers, that is)
    They also don't like talon company

    - Republic of Dave and Paradise Falls are now one thing. They challenge Canterbury Commons supremacy in the area. They deal in slaves, and their main customers are the legion and the Pitt

    - Girdershade is now a little trading outpost, similarly to Goodsprings

    - The Brotherhood was sent to scout for technologies to help them against the NCR. But they're also there to investigate the activity of the Enclave - their mass departure from Navarro didn't go unnoticed

    - The Enclave is now weakened, but still a force to be reckoned with. They have abandoned their genocidal plans and seek to rebuild the United States on the East Coast, but would prefer to avoid fighting with the locals and the Brotherhood in particular. That's why they're preparing ground through propaganda, sabotage and espionage.

    - After the bombs fell the US Army (now without a proper leadership) tried to take a hold on the situation in DC, but the city was already lost: radiations, fires and crime forced the army to retreat to fort Bannister. Eventually they were forced to resort to thefts, raids and pillages to survive. When civilization started to rise once again, their descendants employeed their military expertise for mercenary activities. Memory of their past drifted away as the talon company was born.
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  16. NMLevesque

    NMLevesque Commie Ghost

    Jul 2, 2016
    Good post, but this part stands out as an outlier. Fo3 was already too tied up in west coast factions.
  17. Sublime

    Sublime It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jun 5, 2018
    Regarding the legion, it's true that Bethesda should have developed more Est Coast factions.

    Regarding the BoS, maybe the Institute could act as a replacement, but I think the BoS would be just fine as long as they were to their original mission/values. Even better considering their past with Enclave.
  18. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Sort of inspired by something I said in the "unpopular opinions" thread in the general forum, what if the Enclave had instead been the Midwest Brotherhood with President Eden being replaced by the Calculator (perhaps merged with Barnaky's brain).
    It would make much more sense for them to want to control the Purifier as that would give them control over the region (still would have to be placed upstreams though) and other strategic resources while seeking to bring the population under their control (or drive them off). The whole "Poisoning the drinking water subplot with modified FEV" would be dropped.

    The Midwest BOS would still driven to wipe out all mutants (remember Barnaky's brain) and anyone suspected of being a mutant though not on the level of the Enclave.

    The Lyon's BOS would have to be replaced though (they just don't fit) with perhaps a local government or alliance of settlements that seek to oppose being annexed by the Midwest BOS. I guess Liberty Prime could be brought back (how stupid I find that thing), being a recovered super weapon both sides have set their eyes on.

    The story would be less black and white and a repeat of Fallout 1 and 2 and more about what type of leadership the player thinks is the best for the Capital Wasteland. (military by the BOS, civilian but controlled by the most powerful settlements, and perhaps an anarchy option)

    Using the Midwest Brotherhood would also allow the Calculator's robots to be brought back.

    Wow, I just came up with a plot that might actually have made Fallout 3 interesting.

    I think I already talked here once how I would change James' motivations from trying to purify the water to develop actual terraforming technology and "regreening" the capital wasteland though it is ridiculous that the place is still mostly a dead wasteland two hundred years after the war.

    The Oasis would instead be James and his colleagues' initial success and now he seeks the technological means to do so on a region wide scale.

    Long ago I also suggested having a connection between Evergreen Mills, Evergreen Falls, and Tennpenny Towers.
    Tennpenny would be running a sort of "New Vegas" entertainment town and luxury residence for the more powerful and influential inhabitants of the Capital Wasteland.

    Behind the scenes Tenpenny is actually the mastermind behind the raiders and slavers operating in the region and they are the sources of his income.
    As he can not have the raiders and slavers actually coming to his own town he set up Evergreen Mills as a settlement and entertainment place for the raiders and Paradise Falls as a base from which the Slavers can operate and process slaves.

    In general Tennpenny tries to maintain this image of a respectable businessman but those who know about his operations know what an evil bastard this guy truly is and his role in the atrocities committed in the Capital Wasteland.

    Hmm, perhaps he could be a fourth side in the outcome.

    The Family, another concept I have talked about earlier. First of all I would drop the whole vampire stuff as I find it stupid. Instead I would make them a cult that preaches tolerance, peace, and cooperation between humans and mutants/Ghouls.
    Now this all sounds fine and progressive on sight but behind the scenes more nefarious dealings are going on. For one the Family seeks to gain influence and control over society, if just indirectly.
    They would also have a very deep or disturbing secret that they try to keep hidden. Perhaps something about stripping people of their free will.

    Originally I also had in mind that they have an anti technological angle but I would drop this.

    A shame modding is so difficult and time consuming as I would not mind implementing these changes.
    • [Rad] [Rad] x 3
  19. Hulk'O'Saurus

    Hulk'O'Saurus Still Mildly Glowing

    Jul 10, 2018
    Holy... there's a thread I need to read.

    BRB in a couple of hours.
  20. mannawyadden

    mannawyadden It Wandered In From the Wastes

    May 3, 2016
    There are actually some pretty cool ideas here, I enjoyed reading them.

    Here's what I'd do:

    - Less Super Mutants, but keep them in the game. The ones that are around would have a higher average IQ than the FO3 version overall...They don't originate from Vault 87 and instead would be survivors that have migrated from the West Coast.
    - Add new types of mutants and monstrosities to replace the diminished number of Super Mutant enemies
    - The Enclave would be a tiny, broken remnant group/sleeper cell consisting of a few people trying to manipulate things from the shadows
    - Remove the GECK, since that's just rehashing Fallout 2 too much, but keep Project Purity.
    - Make the conflict between Lyons' Brotherhood of Steel and the Outcasts be the focus of the BoS story
    - Add a new major antagonist faction that's interesting, has depth, and plays a central role in the game
    - Better development for the wasteland factions and towns that are already in the game
    - More depth to some of the quests

    So the game would still mostly play out as it does, and the reused elements from the older games would still be there. But those elements wouldn't play the major central role that they do in the real game. There's an important distinction between a nice callback to older content, and blatantly recycling older content out of laziness and lack of creativity.

    Fallout 3 was my first game, so I didn't recognize all of the recycling, but if I'd played 1 and 2 first, I might've been frustrated with how little original content there actually was. Much like how Star Wars Episode 7 is just a rehash of Episode 4. Disney and Bethesda both played it too safe with the franchises they acquired.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019