I'm wondering if the Great Khans should have been presented more ambiguously...

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Earth, Jul 22, 2016.

  1. Earth

    Earth Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2013
    The Khans were always minor villains in Fallout and Fallout 2, being the raider faction that you interacted with in each game. I appreciate the fact that they made the group more sympathetic in Fallout New Vegas. In the original games, you could always just massacre the Khans no big deal, but in Vegas they show the very real consequences "massacres" actually have, with the whole Bitter Springs fiasco. I like the fact that this time round we see the Great Khans in a position of desperation, not strength.

    So that's all well and good, but I can't help feeling like this is still the Great Khans we're talking about. A raider group who peddle in drugs and believe ultimately in physical strength as the decision-maker of society. What do we see of this in New Vegas? We see some relatively nice people open to reason, a young man who doesn't want to go through the brutal rite of passage of the Khans and instead wants to become a poet, and drug manufacturers who are pretty chill and groovy, y'dig? The only violent Khans we see are when they take a couple NCR soldiers hostage and the sniper in Bitter Springs. They just don't come across as all that bad. When they're talking about keeping the Fiends coked up to attack the NCR it just doesn't compute with the relatively nice people we see with the Khans. Or maybe that's the point, maybe they're supposed to be more likeable, most of them having learned a hard lesson from Bitter Springs.

    I'm wondering if they should have been presented more ambiguously. The Great Khans have had a lot of bad things happen to them yes, but they should still be presented as the violent group they are. Shouldn't they be more aggressive, more keen to stage raiding parties from Red Rock Canyon. Maybe they should still use slaves like they used to in the old games. Stuff like that. Anyway, after all that spiel, any thoughts from you guys? Were you happy with how the Khans were presented, or do you think they could have been handled better? What would you change about them?
     
  2. Erich van Loon

    Erich van Loon Polish Winged Hussar

    391
    May 23, 2016
    In one of the khan endings for F:NV, it says the Khans would migrate to Wyoming, and carve a mighty empire. Maybe the next Obsidian Fallout game will take place in Wyoming, when the Khans have forged a nation for themselves, and possibly quarrel with some other factions.
     
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  3. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    That... that would be an epic game. Keep mentions of New Vegas filled with myth and legend, allowing some kind of mystery over what really happened.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  4. Practicat

    Practicat Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    414
    Aug 25, 2014
    They're still very much into drug peddling, of which most drugs have no medicinal or beneficial purpose, like jet. Asking Jack or Diane whether they're drug dealers causes them to say they're "expanding their business" and some other things in a positive connotation.

    But other than that, it was good to see a friendly and sympathetic side to them.
     
  5. Earth

    Earth Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2013
    I think my problem really is that Gamebryo can't handle characters like this:



    I imagine Khans as these really big badass guys and you don't really get to see that in-game.
     
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  6. Izak

    Izak I Shot The ALBATROSS

    Jan 29, 2016
    I always thought Lanius looked and felt like a towering badass, they could've always made an analogue for him for the Khans.
     
  7. Earth

    Earth Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2013
    Good point. I guess they didn't want to overshadow Lanius's size by having a ton of other big characters running around as well. Still...
     
  8. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Don't you think that after the Khans were beaten and almost destroyed twice by a single dude, then beaten out by other gangs and ultimately the NCR that they would learn some sort of lesson from it all?
     
  9. Earth

    Earth Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2013
    It probably became a kind of national pride issue. When you're constantly beaten down by someone you either submit to what they demand or defy them.
     
  10. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Or you decide to move onto something else, like drugs.
     
  11. Earth

    Earth Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2013
    That is kinda defying though, especially as they're supplying them to the Fiends.
     
  12. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Though it's not violent and it's not really combative against any certain group. They're no longer fighting and raiding like the bastards they used to be.
     
  13. Earth

    Earth Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2013
    Yeah that's a fair point. It's probably a realisation that their position just isn't strong enough to be the raiders of the wasteland anymore. Hence why they've now had to fall on other groups like the Fiends and Legion to have any kind of influence.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  14. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Yeah, they probably allied the legion to fight the NCR and become the raiding power they used to be.
     
  15. lolpop109

    lolpop109 Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    839
    Jul 14, 2016
    I personally think Khans are slight out of place in FNV. I mean it makes sence that they where bascailly just generic raiders in the perivous story but why they have alot more relavance to plot point now i don't know. I think the idea is cool but why would they hold so ground in FNV and also why would they actually count as a player towards the end of the game. I can understand why the you want the boomers on your side with there explosives and the plane but what do the khans really offer.

    I think what the Khans should of offered was a bad ass companion you could run round with. Just some is hard as nails and just genrally a bad ass. I feel like if this was the case the khans would have much more worth in the game. How cool would it be to run around with a badass Khan
     
  16. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    The Khans offer some extra fighters at the end of the game.
     
  17. lolpop109

    lolpop109 Water Chip? Been There, Done That
    Modder

    839
    Jul 14, 2016
    They do indeed^ However i just thought they added alittle to it compered to other factions
     
  18. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Yeah it's not as badass as a bomber flying over the battlefield, or a vertibird dropping elite Enclave soldiers.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  19. Whammytap

    Whammytap First time out of the vault

    53
    Aug 5, 2016
    The evolution of the Great Khans from a raider gang to a chem-manufacturing powerhouse is quite feasible, in fact similar stories happen IRL all the time. Look at drug cartels in least less-developed countries. Being a Raider is a dangerous, hand-to-mouth existence; the Great Khans learned how to do commerce and profit, and prosper.

    That said, yeah, it did seem like their story was kind of shoehorned in, didn't it?
     
  20. Throatpunch

    Throatpunch Banned

    Apr 14, 2016
    They are fun to wipe out.