It all comes tumbling down, tumbling down.

Discussion in 'Fallout 4' started by Akratus, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. ZigzagPX4

    ZigzagPX4 The Swiftness of the Ranger

    Nov 22, 2015
    It's fun for people who enjoy playing MMOs alone. :razz:

    In all seriousness, I found it a fun game. Coming from me, that's not saying much. It's unique even in its bad bits - unlike any game I've seen, Fallout 4 does a little bit of good with everything and a little bit of bad with everything. Then they put in lots of things, and the goods and bads accumulate. This is unlike other AAA games where the pros and cons are clear and easy to define, making it really hard to screw up a sequel. Fallout 4 is full of a lot of little good things and little bad things.

    In short, you can do a bit of everything, but there's no focus in anything. If in terms of "things to do" you prefer quantity over quality, Fallout 4 perfectly fills that niche.
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]
    This makes it basically a Jack-Of-All-Trades video game, which is why people play it. I mean, you guys call Bethesda RPGs the fast food of video games like it's an insult. But you look at how popular fast food is, how are you still confused why people play them? [/FONT]
     
  2. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    I can't find a game that almost makes me fall asleep at my desk to be even decent. There's the shooty kill things aspect but it gets boring as hell when that's what you're doing the majority of the time and there are way better first person shooters out there to play.
     
  3. TheRippaMan

    TheRippaMan First time out of the vault

    62
    Nov 4, 2015
    Of course. It's not a "bad" game per se. It has decent graphics, fighting is fun, there's lots of content to pursue, ect, but if you look at it honestly, there's only one thing it does well -- open-world. Coming from Daggerfall or Morrowind, you realize that a lot of elements have been stream-lined or removed for the sake of easy access and. For me, that is a cause for disappointment. I know what to expect from Bethesda. I know what to expect from an RPG. Fallout 4 doesn't really check these boxes, but sure, it's a fun game.

    Many of the Beth fans don't like to hear stuff like this though. I'm not sure why. It never use to be that. Even Morrowind fans were quick to talk about what the game does bad, or even what Daggerfall did better. Nowadays, you can't even mention the poor dialog wheel or voice acting without someone jumping down your throat and calling you a troll.
     
  4. Irwin John Finster

    Irwin John Finster Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Nov 13, 2015
    Yes it was. But there's an entire video game that looks like that and is more mature: S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

    Everything good about Fallout 4 comes with a price or compromise. So yes, there are good things, I even made a thread dedicated to pointing the positives out. But every positive is wasted potential. Even reasonable fans are saying "Yea...Fallout 4 has some good aspects...but can we just have Obsidian do another one?" I recognize the positives of Fallout 4 but I also believe that it's all wasted potential that would have been better off in the hands of a true RPG studio.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2015
  5. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    So many cuts and wasted potential in this game. That's what really makes me hate the game, the fact that the developers were making some real interesting stuff, and cut it for god knows what reason.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  6. ZigzagPX4

    ZigzagPX4 The Swiftness of the Ranger

    Nov 22, 2015
    I just have the gut feeling that everything we thought off was cut off was due to time constraints. Hype and pressure tends to lead to a focus on getting it out as soon as possible to maximise profits, as is an AAA publisher's mindset. But only partially. I thought the true reason was that goddamn settlement system.

    A larger, more complex intro. Siding with the Raiders against Preston Garvey. Working with the Minutemen. Vault 81. Diamond City's Mayor McDonough conspiracy. Goodneighbor mayor Hancock's internal conflict on his position as leader. The Combat Zone. That robot racing area. The Minutemen Castle. The Brotherhood Prydwen. Every companion quest - every single one. The Glowing Sea. Working with the Gunners. A Karma system. More base weapons. Memory Den quests. Varied endings with proper slides and a post-ending world with consequences. All cut in favour of a half-functional settlement building system.

    Changing it into a half-assed Borderlands halfway because they realised they focused on the settlements for too long. Like a college student who realised he studied the wrong chapter for the exam tomorrow, and having to rush the notes of the correct chapter.
     
  7. Dr Fallout

    Dr Fallout Centurion

    Aug 17, 2015
    Nice anthology, fits perfectly for this mess.
     
  8. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Snug Rubber

    Sep 11, 2010
    Wait, what? There's that much stuff that got cut? What the fuck? Well, they said that for DLC's they were going to gauge fan requests but I'd say they should work on getting all of that stuff back into the game and 'not' put it behind a paywall.
     
  9. mrchaos

    mrchaos Super Orc

    478
    Nov 14, 2015
    So, I just realized something while browsing the forums. The combat zone. Back in oblivion they had the arena and they couldn´t put something like that in this game?

    Shameful.
     
  10. Earth

    Earth Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2013
    The biggest problem with Fallout 4 is that it does nothing original and the games it ripped off did those things better.

    The fact that mass audiences can't see this, or actively embrace it, is incomprehensible to me.
     
  11. TheSnake

    TheSnake First time out of the vault

    22
    Dec 1, 2015
    Your hard-earned money will likely buy this as DLC in the near future.
     
  12. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    No that'll be the Sims DLC with loads of couches, paintings, walls, floors, mannequins, skeletons, locked fridges with adoptable ghoul kids, and more decorative assets.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 2
  13. TheSnake

    TheSnake First time out of the vault

    22
    Dec 1, 2015
    The sad thing is that you're probably right.
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  14. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    It could be a possibility, I wish they'd get it over with and shit out their first DLC. Wouldn't it just be a kick in the head if they released a very good DLC?
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  15. PossibleCabbage

    PossibleCabbage Vault 22 Survivor

    889
    Jul 2, 2015
    I really am curious how Bethesda is going to react going forward to some of the consistent criticisms of Fallout 4. While Bethesda will earn their share of plaudits and awards, it's not as though the praise of their latest effort has been uniform or unblemished and as much as we deride Bethesda's priorities or execution, the actual people making the games want to make even better games than their last effort and they do pay attention to both criticism and other games. It's not as though they didn't learn from some of the criticisms of Fallout 3, specifically they appear to have responded to "combat is poor", "the BoS is unrealistically goodie-goodie", "what on earth do these people eat or drink", and a few others.

    I suspect they'll respond to a bunch of the criticisms of the dialogue wheel, most notably that it gives no real way of telling what you're going to say when you pick an option and that most of the options are just different ways of saying yes (possibly they'll come up with a way to say more than four things.) I'm really curious whether they care about people put off by how you're not really playing your character, you're playing Bethesda's character, and how people are concerned with the lack of alternative solutions to problems (and how the overall emphasis of the game on killing and looting.)

    Game development is after all a series of trade-offs between features you would like to add, and there were probably all sorts of good ideas left on the cutting room floor during triage, but well-elucidated criticism can affect developer priorities going forward.
     
  16. Hexhammer

    Hexhammer First time out of the vault

    29
    Jul 20, 2015
    ^We'll see.^

    I wonder if the criticism will be even noted in the ivory tower...
     
  17. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    I doubt they plan on changing the dialogue wheel or the
    "[ ]What? (I'm asking you a question then saying yes)
    [ ]Sarcastic (Yes with a hint of sarcasm)
    [ ]No way (I'm saying no but I'll have to do it anyways)
    [ ]Hell yeah (Kissing the NPC's ass and saying yes)".

    Lets face it they've already said how their audience they want to cater to is the people who "want to skip through the dialogue to shoot them in the head".
     
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  18. PossibleCabbage

    PossibleCabbage Vault 22 Survivor

    889
    Jul 2, 2015
    I think you could do a lot with either full dialogue or just more descriptive terms, and you could double the number of dialogue options with the existing framework just by adding a "hold down a shoulder button" option to bring up 4 new ones.

    I mean, pretty much everybody rags on Fallout 4's dialogue system, don't they? It's not like they're going to leave it exactly the same going forward when it was experimental to begin with. Even little things like "replace the question option with a submenu of different questions" would be simple and would help.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2015
  19. MercenarySnake

    MercenarySnake Kept you waiting huh?

    Aug 22, 2015
    I wouldn't want just four options or having to hold down another key just to see more options. Just my opinion but I would like to see atleast 5-6 options and skill checks as well and in list form like Fallout 1 and 2 not this silly dialogue wheel clunky interface. I'm sure it would be too complex though for people who just want to head into combat without the "burden" of reading dialogue.
     
  20. Spacemunkey

    Spacemunkey Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 4, 2015
    I very much believe this. As an office drone myself I'm fully aware that while I may want to do a great job that I'm still confined by the boundaries set by people at the top. I don't think the devs at Bethesda were or are unaware of what FO4 is, but I think a lot of it's shortcomings stem from making the best of a bad situation created by suits who only look at what will move units.