Let's discuss this old topic again

[MazeMouse]

You were essentially calling everyone idiots for wanting a sequel to their favourite game to be *like* said game. Seems to be a pretty weird observation.

I'll have to elaborate on this.
I was "calling everyone idiots" to wanting a sequel which by today's standards would be borderline commercial suicide. (2d? Sprites?)
Even bog standard Isometric and Turn Based would hurt sales in today's gaming market. So the "childish whining" as I pictured it is in essence kind of foolish and not so weird.

True, I'd give my arm and a leg for Isometric Turn Based fallout. But I'm realistic enough to know that by now anygame which features a set isometric viewpoint is suicidal.
Free Rotating with zoom would possibly be the closest to the original viewpoint we could hope for. Anything else would be unwise marketingwise (it's a business, not a labour of love)

Turn Based is a bit of a "meh" issue. Most turn based games are turn based strategy games or use a "rounds" system (D&D type games, which basically is CTB)
FOT proved that TB and CTB could be implemented in a single game. Not so crazy to demand but even big franchises like Final Fantasy have been seen to gradually shift from a TB to a CTB type gameplay and it would be rather foolish to expect Fallout3 to stay pure TB.

Canon issues. Feels to me a bit like star-trek fans hating the Enterprise series because it had some bad implementations while in essence the series wasn't all that bad in it's own.
This game is also going to be played by people who don't know jack-excrement about fallout canon and only know about the big-picture storyline. Demanding this to be spot on when the game now is made by people who had nothing to do with the original would be like some other person writing a sequel to all of tolkien's work. Nigh on impossible and taking into account this game is going mainstream (Yeah, I used the M-word. Sue me) not a very realistic viewpoint.

 

[Brother None]

Let's not go into this here either, MazeMouse, it'll derail the thread. I'll split your posts so you can discuss it on the Fallout 3 forum.

But I'll also advise you that this topic has been discussed way too much. Trying to straw man people by claiming they want 2D sprites is unfair since almost nobody wants that.

 

[MazeMouse]

Nevermind
I was trying to make a point. Just delete it instead if it's been done to death here. No sence beating on a dead horse. Just make a linky to the bethsoft forums or the search

 

[Sander]

I was "calling everyone idiots" to wanting a sequel which by today's standards would be borderline commercial suicide. (2d? Sprites?)
Even bog standard Isometric and Turn Based would hurt sales in today's gaming market. So the "childish whining" as I pictured it is in essence kind of foolish and not so weird.

We've over this millions of times in this forum: there is *no* valid reason why an isometric, turn-based game would be commercial suicide. Here's a hint: releasing yet another game aimed at the exact same *completely filled niche* that everyone is aiming at is actual commercial suicide.

All you're going by is 'Every game is 3d and real-time, so that must be the only thing that sells!!!' which is a retarded business model. It's as if you're going to make every single doll like Barbie because, hey, that's what works.

FOT proved that TB and CTB could be implemented in a single game. Not so crazy to demand but even big franchises like Final Fantasy have been seen to gradually shift from a TB to a CTB type gameplay and it would be rather foolish to expect Fallout3 to stay pure TB.

Why?

Canon issues. Feels to me a bit like star-trek fans hating the Enterprise series because it had some bad implementations while in essence the series wasn't all that bad in it's own.
This game is also going to be played by people who don't know jack-excrement about fallout canon and only know about the big-picture storyline. Demanding this to be spot on when the game now is made by people who had nothing to do with the original would be like some other person writing a sequel to all of tolkien's work. Nigh on impossible and taking into account this game is going mainstream (Yeah, I used the M-word. Sue me) not a very realistic viewpoint.

If you're going to purchase a game license and then ignore canon, you might as well have started your own license. Fallout is not a big enough name to compensate for the money spent on the license, especially if you consider that 'Made by the people who brought you Oblivion' gets more exposure.


Also, no one's talking about sprites and 2d.

 

[SuAside]

most of us have little against a 3D isometric approach. so your whole 2D/sprites thing is kinda stupid.

 

[Nonagon]

but even big franchises like Final Fantasy have been seen to gradually shift from a TB to a CTB type gameplay

Well that's fuckin' great, I'll bet that means chess is going to become CTB soon too, is that right? Bullshit, just bullshit

 

[JR Jansen]

Now, now, people.

His comment on 2D and sprites was idiotic indeed.

But i could live with CTB as an option (as it was in tactics) with the game being made for TB but CTB as an option.

People who complain about TB being not fast enough for certain battles DO have a point. Therefor, being able to switch to CTB for that type of battle wouldn't be a bad thing. As long as it is an option in a TB game.

 

[alec]

Trying to straw man people by claiming they want 2D sprites is unfair since almost nobody wants that.

I wanted 2D sprites in Fallout 3, dawgunnit! I did.
The minute I laid eyes on Arcanum I begged for that to happen.
Years later, though, I realized it would never ever happen again. Arcanum would be the last, absolutely awesome 2D RPG in my lifetime.
Now I'll be glad if they respect the setting, the SPECIAL system and preferably the turnbased combat.
The good ol' days are over. For good. The games we were used to have ceased to exist.
We'll have to learn to live with that and move on.
Its the whole 'original Star Wars trilogy vs the new Star Wars trilogy' thing. You've got to make real fans enjoy the new sequels, obey the canon, but at the same time throw in a Jar Jar Binks and some really cool special effects to lure in the newbies.
I've taken peace with a 3D FPS. I really have. I'd rather see a middle course, but I tend to think I understand game marketing and economics, so I'm realistic about the whole thing.
As long as they don't fuck up the setting, I say. And the teaser trailer points in that direction. Thank Gawd.