New Vegas in 2020

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Uber Morpth, Jun 5, 2020.

  1. Uber Morpth

    Uber Morpth First time out of the vault

    61
    Jul 10, 2018
    Aside from the usual buggyness that comes with new vegas (the god awful default fov I managed to tweak via config files, loading bugs and some crashing) I been having a good time getting back into this game. So far I only done Honest Heart's and Dead Money currently on Old World Blues and I really forgot how so good the base game and dlc is especially Dead Money which might be my favorite story and atmosphere wise.

    I think more so now I realize in terms of story building and role playing how much the recent fallout games of late have been not too great, I still believe Fallout 4 doesn't hold up compared to NV.

    I was curious since this game will be a decade old soon how do you fella's feel with the 18 month development period it had does it hold up today and compared to is most recent sequels?
     
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  2. Malpais Dominus

    Malpais Dominus First time out of the vault

    43
    Jun 1, 2020
    I think it absolutely does. The vanilla gameplay and engine may not be as good as Fallout 4 but it's still leaps and bounds above Fallout 3. As far as the story and world building (which imo should be these game's greatest strength) very few games have come close and none of them are Fallout games.
     
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  3. Uber Morpth

    Uber Morpth First time out of the vault

    61
    Jul 10, 2018
    The gunplay while still terrible least Obsidian attempted to make some quality of life improvements (ads, recoil, weapon mods, new and interesting various weapons, different ammo types ect) although I can't blame obsidian as they would of had to rework the game from the ground up to make a much better combat system, same goes for the engine which they managed to push it's limits especially with the dlc which was a nice change of pace.)

    I also do agree least of the past decade few games have had an interesting world building and story that new vegas had (tbf I haven't played many games of this kind lately so if someone bought up a possible example I'd love to hear it.)

    It does make me wonder if they were able to build the game from scratch with a more reasonable budget and time constraint, would it be better then what we got in a hypothetical example? I know most of the legion's content was greatly cut from the release so I'd would of like to see what was offered originally.
     
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  4. Malpais Dominus

    Malpais Dominus First time out of the vault

    43
    Jun 1, 2020
    If you could go back in time and give them the resources and dev time necessary sure. Unfortunately the Obsidian of now isn't the Obsidian of back then and with how The Outer Worlds ended up I don't have a lot of faith in a hypothetical NV remake which is already an impossibility anyway.
     
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  5. Uber Morpth

    Uber Morpth First time out of the vault

    61
    Jul 10, 2018
    Oh I wouldn't myself trust bethesdia of remaking new vegas
     
  6. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Fossil

    Mar 16, 2013
    I think it most certainly holds up. Obsidian were handed a "poisoned chalice" as it were but they still did an incredible job and I'd feel pretty confident in saying New Vegas has reached cult classic status (Whilst, IIRC, also at the time of release being financially successful) which is a hell of a legacy. Storywise it is, IMO, the peak of Fallout for me and an excellent send-off to the series as a whole.

    Even gameplay wise, I actually think amongst the Gamebryo/Bethesda games it stands as the best. The shooting mechanics aren't as refined as 4 or 76 but basically everything else is superior. The weapon selection is absolutely excellent. Perks and stats have considerably more thought put into them than any of the other games of that Bethesda open world stripe. It is honestly the best they did with what they had, and with the JSaweyer unofficial patch/mod, it is actually still really engaging to play.

    In terms of narrative and roleplay it is still by far one of, if not the, most engaging out there.
     
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  7. Norzan

    Norzan Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 7, 2017
    You really don't need to believe to be sure Fallout 4 doesn't hold a candle to New Vegas when it comes to roleplaying and world building. New Vegas is basically light years ahead in those departments compared to Fallout 4.
     
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  8. Malpais Dominus

    Malpais Dominus First time out of the vault

    43
    Jun 1, 2020
    The fact that bethesda dared to comment on the Mojave with a reference to something as stupid as a "lost alien city" hidden beneath the desert still angers me.
     
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  9. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Fossil

    Mar 16, 2013
    Without turning this into a Fallout 4 hate thread, 4 barely does any worldbuilding. 90% of the Commonwealth is either existing Fallout content or was already established in Fallout 3 (The Railroad, the Institute, the Synths). They aren't even consistent with that (It is implied very loosely that the Commonwealth is unified in some fashion and has its own Police force). The other parts are absolute barebones or random, scattershot superficial gimmick ideas. At the very least as shitty as it was the Capital Wasteland felt like a region in a bigger world, you felt like there was an American wasteland beyond the Capital. The Commonwealth feels like a video-game sandbox and totally insulular. It doesn't even have bad worldbuilding....it just doesn't.
     
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  10. Enemy852

    Enemy852 First time out of the vault

    4
    Jun 1, 2020
    I think the game holds up extremely well. I recently came back to fnv as well and have been heavily modding it to enhance the vanilla experience instead of changing it into something else.

    Coming back to it after not playing it for around a year was cool, and exciting. And the game wasnt exactly as i had remembered it. I was actually surprised as the graphics werent as awful as i had remembered them to be. Yes, the textures are poor and the lighting is sub-par, but it isnt too bad. The game can look pretty good at times.

    After dumping another 50 hours into fnv over the past 2 weeks one thing always comes to mind. The world building. It something that FNV did so well i didnt notice it at first. I new i was playing in Las Vegas, i new i was in the mojave. But that setting never intruded on me. It didnt feel forced.

    Fallout 4's setting wasnt intruding either, thats because the setting and world building was so bland and dry. Fo4's boston looks like any major american city, i see next to 0 boston world building or culture. This is not only the fault of the devs but its also the downside of the fo4 setting. Boston is a much less unqiue location than the city of desire, Las Vegas. Las Vegas has casions, prostitutes, and big flashing neon signs. Boston has buildings and some accents. This is also the case with fo3, although i do think fo3 had better world building than fo4.

    FNV's gunplay is obviously outdated, it was even outdated when fnv came out. Its not awful, and its definitely an improvement upon fo3, but its basically shooting nerf bullets at brain dead npc's that also have aimbot. Gunplay is vastly improved with mods and can come fairly close to the level of fo4's combat. The thing with fo4 is that even though its gunplay was an extreme improvement upon its predecessors it wasnt perfect. Fo4 only managed to accomplish average gunplay. Nothing special. The other problem is the first person combat cant compare to the combat on fo1 and fo2. The once tactical and challenging combat is gone with the modernization of its combat and the switch to a first person perspective. Fo4's gunplay is just another aspect of it that makes it feel like a open world shooter instead of an immersive rpg. The clunkiness of fnv's combat and the fact that enemies are harder to kill in fnv makes the game more akin to the og fallout's for me. Not to say bullet sponges are a great thing. Thats why i use mods to make it so i die quick and so do enemies.

    Obviously the most glaring flaw with the newer fallouts (fo4 and 76) are the stories and writing. Fo4 has a story equal to that of your average call of duty game, a meaningless mc with meaningless side characters. Every moral observation is absent and unique personalities with opinions are nowhere to be found. Upon character creation you are given a a place in life. You are a family man/woman. This is perhaps fo4's greatest flaw as it ruins nearly every role playing aspect possible. The other flaw with the intro is the pre war beginning. In previous fallout games (aside from fo3) you could be a no one, a wanderer, someone with no past and no voice, or perhaps a past you came up with and a voice you imagined.

    For an example, being a psychopath in fallout. im ok with murdering everyone in the wasteland as the courier, because all i know about myself it that i once delivered packages, and the main quest partially focuses on revenge. Which tells me my character is angry, but you can also very easily play the main story differantly, you can spare benny, showing that you hold no grudge against him. Thats role playing. Something you cant do in fo4. In fnv im shot in the head because of greed for some platinum chip. When i awake maybe i prefer not to go after the man who shot me, id rather stay out of trouble. Once again, thats impossible in fo4. In fo4 i have a wife and son i love. My wife is shot in the head and my son is kidnapped, every aspect of the mc's voice shows sadness and anger towards these events. Maybe i hate my wife, but im not allowed to hate my wife in fo4. And once again, to tie it back to the psychopath role playing, in fo4 it would make no sense for me to go kill everyone in the wasteland while the life of my child son is on the line. And worst of all, you cant be a psyhopath in fo4. There are a ton of essential npc's that are immortal. Not only is immersion breaking but its also it just not fallout-like.

    The story and the in ability to role play in fo4 is what truly ruins the game for me. And it what makes fnv for me. Fo3 suffers from the same flaw as fo4. While i still love fo3, and still cannot dump as many hours into it as i have with fnv.

    To quickly summarize why 76 is awful ill say this, 76 shares many flaws with fo4 but it has even more. The intro and beginning to 76 shows room for extensive role playing, but it useless in the end as every other aspect of 76 shatters that role playing reality. Before wastelanders there wasnt a single human npc, and every robot npc was well... a robot, and they had next to 0 personality. Cant be a psychopath in 76 because there is absolutely no one to kill, all the robot npc's are invincible as its an online game and other players interact with said robots. Wastelanders solved nothing. Still cant kill npc's, still not much roleplay. And i must say that 76 is extremely light hearted even compared to the toned down fo4. This is why it pisses me off when people say that wastelanders turned 76 into a "true fallout experience", yeah... no. Not even close.

    To conclude my pathetic essay, i must mention why the modding for fnv is superior compared to fo4 and even fo3. I think of it as a pie chart, each fallout game has a pie chart and they each are lacking in a few slices. Fnv lacks in gunplay and graphics, fo4 lacks in story and world building. Fnv can greatly improve its gunplay and graphics through modding. Fo4 isnt exactly the same case, the story cant be improved, it can be removed and it can be expanded upon, but it cannot be rewritten, which is exactly what it needs, it world building can be improved but only to very limited extent.

    This to me is why fnv superseeds fo4 and 76 in pretty much everyway.
     
  11. Malpais Dominus

    Malpais Dominus First time out of the vault

    43
    Jun 1, 2020
    The biggest thing really is that the issues of NV are little things that can be tweaked for the most part but Fo4 and 76 have major integral problems aren't things that you can fix. You can add weapon sway, recoil and other things to NV. You can't replace the very structure and story of Fallout 4.
     
  12. Makta

    Makta The DICKtator

    Jul 29, 2010
    My biggest issue with NVM is that the main game is/feels so unfinished compared to the dlcs, I had to force myself to play through the last 4-5 hours on my last 100% run and i did not enjoy it.

    The dlcs even with the "worst" one is still some of the best dlcs i've played.
     
  13. Black Prince

    Black Prince The Fool on the Hill

    46
    Jul 8, 2020
    When I first played the game, and for some years afterwards, I loved the game because it was fun and it allowed choice. It was the perfect roleplaying game, because not only was my character a blank slate - he's a mailman shot in the head, literally - but the NPCs were compelling. It made me consider my choices, and with the ending slides how they were, you wanted to get everyone the right ending you thought they deserved. But I don't think I ever thought critically about the game until relatively recently.

    And it's then, without wanting to go too into a hyperbole, that New Vegas kind of transcends being a video game and is probably the closest a video game has ever come to getting to that "artform" that so many developers, publishers, writers, etc all aspire their games to be. It's a work of love from Sawyer, Avellone, et al that not only shows their respect for the intelligence of their fanbase, but for their own commitment to upholding the integrity of the world that it exists in. But the game is more than just that.

    It makes one seriously contemplate Ideology and World-View. Does one value liberal democracy, with warts and all, and wish to impose it - in whatever form it may take - on a land that does not want it, because at the end of the day you believe it's best for them? Do you value Order and Stability at all costs, no matter the destruction of personal freedom that cause people to lose their own agency in the face of the State's wishes? Do you value the dreams of someone so enigmatic and genius that your mind pales in comparison, that you serve him in order to see it through to see a world where things are bright, but the only person who can make the decision is the Dreamer?

    The motif/theme of the game, that I spoke of in another thread, is to me the one thing that separates this game from others. It has, above all other roleplaying games, a theme - an overarching concept. "Begin again, and know when to let go." And when one realizes that this is what is being told, it colors everything else. The entire game is leading up to this realization, and it puts you in the Courier's shoes more than any hammering down of a lost family member could ever do. It makes one consider, in real terms, when it's time to let go of the past - of all the things that cause you to get hung up on things. Is it worth risking the overextension of your Nation for the sake of unlimited power and resources? Is it worth risking the destruction of everything you have fought for to get a crowning victory, a central axis of vast empire? Is it worth it to remove the agency and input of every person in the land to see through the dreams of one man, so that they may be uplifted - in the form that the Dreamer wishes?

    Maybe this is kind of cringe. I don't know. But to me, in 2020, after learning, experiencing things, New Vegas has taken to me to be an entirely different beast. Something grander.
     
  14. Iprovidelittlepianos

    Iprovidelittlepianos I’m not interested in music lessons for children

    54
    May 12, 2020
    There are plenty of mods that can improve the graphics of the game and turn it into something that, frankly, looks even better than 4 and 76. EVE and New Vegas Redesigned come to mind.