Palestinians Are Crazy

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by John Uskglass, Aug 13, 2004.

  1. Tannhauser

    Tannhauser Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite

    Mar 18, 2004
    Well, Snake is half-Israeli, Sovz knows/has visited the areas, and I grew up in the Middle East (lived in Bahrain & Egypt, but I traveled the region).

    We all have a shared personal interest in the development of the area.
     
  2. Snake

    Snake Vault Dweller

    727
    Jul 6, 2003
    You dont need to tell me how much shit the israelis cause. And I am absolutelly sure the refugee camps in palestine are below human conditions what im saying is that you generalized the entire nation of Palestine into that one picture.

    And APTYP the conflict going on there affects us all, hardly all Jews and muslims live in that region, what happens there gets noticed here. Even here in Sweden I have noticed anti semitism mainly because whats happening in the middle east.
     
  3. APTYP

    APTYP Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Apr 2, 2003
    How exactly is that bullshit of a conflict going to affect the entire world? Would the world be any better or worse if Israelis wiped out all Palestinians? Or if Israel state would collapse and Palestinians would control the whole area? It won't make one bit of a difference, and the only reason you care about it is because you're an idiot not unlike those who follow up on the news of Lacy Peterson murder investigation.

    Do yourself a favor - stop caring about inane armed conflicts.
     
  4. Snake

    Snake Vault Dweller

    727
    Jul 6, 2003
    There are so many ways it affects already that you have to be an idiot not to know any of them.

    Edit: You know, I take back the idiot part, im just tired of everyone going in favour of the palestinians without knowing any of the facts.
    Ill just stop replying to this thread now as its bound for disaster.
     
  5. Jebus

    Jebus Background Radiant
    Orderite

    Jan 29, 2004
    Don't take this personally, but this kind of attitude is severely getting on my nerves.

    The Jewish seem to be throwing the term "anti-semitism" around at every damned occasion. Somebody criticizes Israël's foreign policy? ANTI-SEMITISM! Somebody says it's about time the Jews stopped forming closed communities? ANTI-SEMITISM! Somebody says Jews should stop acting like they're a completely separate race and culture? ANTI-SEMITISM! Somebody says zionism causes more wrong than good? ANTI-SEMITISM! Somebody says Sharon has a bad haircut? ANTI-SEMITISM!

    Now, there's one thing the people who throw around these ridiculous accusations don't get: the criticism that is dispensed here has nothing to do with racial hatred, but with humanitarian concerns. I personally don't give a shit about whether someone is Jewish or non-Jewish. And every, every goddamn time I enter a discussion concerning the Middle East with a Jewish person, I get called an anti-semitist. Which is extremely funny, actually, since I'm Jewish myself.* Goes to show.

    To be honest, I think the Jews themselves are probably the most racist "race" on earth:
    They claim their own, separate country on grounds of their "race". And that actually makes them the only "race" in history that did such a thing.
    Everywhere the Jewish live, most of them have a tendency to form (extremely) closed communities. I've seen that myself, actually. Right here in Belgium. Only Jewish people get accepted in the "inner cirlces". Pure racism, I tell you. Same with marriage and friendships, and I know that from personal experience:

    You see, I don't *look* Jewish, since I've got blonde hair, blue eyes, a fairly moderately sized nose, and a very Dutch-sounding name. And, as I have noticed myself, other Jewish people treat me *very* different once they find out I'm partially Jewish...

    't Sickens me.


    *Well, 1/4th, at least.
     
  6. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    Not true. Nazis.
     
  7. Jebus

    Jebus Background Radiant
    Orderite

    Jan 29, 2004
    If I'm not mistaken, Hitler wanted to create a German empire, and not an empire that housed the entire Arian race...

    Plus, even these "goals" quite quickly degenerated into mindless land-grabbing.
     
  8. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    Actually, he thought that the German lands (including Belgium and the Netherlands) belonged to the Arians and the Arians only.
    Of course. That doesn't mean that that wasn't his (original) ideological objective.
     
  9. Jebus

    Jebus Background Radiant
    Orderite

    Jan 29, 2004
    True, but yet the Germans were the "Herrenvolk", and the Belgians and Dutch were hardly treated as equals...
     
  10. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    I don't know about the Belgians, but originally the Dutch were approached with a lot of tolerance and niceties, with the official German line being one of offering the Dutch their own nation under the Germans and seeing the Dutch as (almost) equal to the Germans, or really as part of the true German people.
    Of course, this changed in 1942, after the conflict had intensified.
     
  11. Snake

    Snake Vault Dweller

    727
    Jul 6, 2003
    Thats hardly what I ment. In Israel there doesnt only live Jews, theres muslims, arabs, palestinians the works.
    Here in Sweden Ive heard complaints about what the Israeli military is doing, its wrong this and wrong that, theyre baby and child killers and at the end of that sentence I most often hear " those fucking jews" or "The Nazis shouldve killed them all" and shit like that, sometimes its suttle but you still know what they mean. Of course when the palestinians launch waves of suicide bombers and blow up truck loads of children its not their fault, its the jews fault for wanting to protect themselves by building walls, destroying sucispicious houses believe to belong to one of the terrorist actions. You dont seriously believe the Israeli army would would tear down palestinian housing to show their power or terrorize them?

    Israelis know what terror is being afraid to walk on the streets because some manic thinks hes doing gods work by blowing himself up along with a few other people.
     
  12. Tannhauser

    Tannhauser Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite

    Mar 18, 2004
    Hmm... Jebus, Jewish through your maternal heritage?

    Actually, my cousin had trouble along that line lately. He's a contractor and was working on improving a synagogue. The original construction was a terrible job though, and every time his team started work, more problems with the original construction would be found, which ruined his work. Eventually, after two weeks of constant troubles, one of the synagogue members came up to him and said "Why do you hate us?" Though the Rabbi did apologize for this persons conduct. Actually, the Rabbi was a good man, unfortunately the money was provided by someone else, who tried to knock down the price with every problem.

    By the way, since this is a potentially volatile topic:
     
  13. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    And this shows that you haven't really understood a word Jebus was saying.

    Jebus point was that anti-semitism is not the same as as anti-Israelism. And I completely agree with him,. "sometimes it's subtle" just means that you think you hear anti-Jewish things when you hear people complain about Israel, but instead only hear valid complaints about Israel.

    You really really really don't get it, do you? Everyone knows what some Palestinians are doing, and they all hate it. This, however, in no way excuses some of the Israelis for acting in an atrocious manner.

    EDIT: Damned BB codes.
     
  14. Snake

    Snake Vault Dweller

    727
    Jul 6, 2003
    Jebus basicly said that all jews nomatter where they are from use antisemitism as a reason for whatever negatice things that happen to them.

    And I dont know about Holland but here in Sweden the media is on the Palestinians side nomatter what they do it seems.
     
  15. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    Thank you for playing, goodbye.
    1) Don't dodge every point I make with useless remarks.
    2) Jebus did not say that Jews no matter where they are from use anti-semitism as a reason for whatever negative things happen to them, he said that there were a lot of negative things about most Jewish communities and dialogue that makes for isolationism and closed-mindedness, especially when being faced with negative remarks, as a lot of Jews reply with "anti-semitism". Nowhere did he actually say anything discriminating, as this is a generalisation that allows for personal exceptions and only shows how several Jews speak, think and act. It's as much discrimination as saying "Most people who hate Israel are merely anti-semitic".
    3) "The media, man, the media!" The media are not the cause, fault and effect of everything. The media can never be a homogenous group, or at least not in any free western society these days, so don't pretend they are. People notice the things they disagree much more easily than the things they do agree with, making for these kinds of remarks. As an example, I'll pull up the United States. A lot of people have claimed there that the media are biased, but the people who have claimed have made opposite claims, either claiming that the media are right-wing or left-wing. This goes to show that the media is not and should not be treated as a homogonous group.
    4) And another thing, you do it yourself, you just excused Israel by saying that everyone who says something negative about it is just another anti-semite. This not only distracts from the case at hand, Israel, but also marginalises the arguments and importance given to an individual, because you choose to see him as an anti-semite instead of a rational person.
    5) Lastly, I've yet to see an Israeli-apologetic come up with the idea of thinking that maybe, just maybe, this anti-semitism does not cause anti-Israelli thinking, but that the Israeli actions casue anti-Israeli thinking and thereby anti-semitism. Just like the actions of a group of radical muslims cause anti-islamitic thinking.
    Now, answer my post, and the previous one:
    EDIT: BB-codes
     
  16. John Uskglass

    John Uskglass Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Aug 29, 2003
    There's some truth here, but I think it's a really fine line. There's a reason there's so much fear of anti-semetism in Europe, and why so many prominent officals even in the French government admit that it's a growing problem.

    I think that the majority of anti-semetic actions in Europe are Arab-on-Jew or Euro-on-Arab, but there really IS a growing blurring of anti-semetic and anti-zionist lines.

    Let's say the Plattesduetch got really angry at you for not becoming part of Germany. Thus they send in a suicide bomber into....whatever you guys use in the abscence of Churches/Synagoges. They kill 40 people. Let's hav that repeated, say, a thousand times, and combine that with 4 wars to try and push the Dutch "into the sea".

    If that's not a fucking exuse I have no idea what is.


    Same with the Norwegians and the Danish. One of the main reasons so many Jews survived in those nations is because the Germans did'nt use the same tacitcs against "Aryan equals" as they did the Poles. You guys where also less anti-semetic then the Poles to be fair.
    Yes, you/they where. There was even a Dutch SS that used Dutch Runes and called themselves Diki, or something like that.

    You are mistaken. Hitler even wanted an alliance with Britan to form a pan-Germanic leage.


    No offence, but when you're the but of every joke, ever intolerant movement and the bodies of you're own dead outnumber the living in most of Europe, you have EVERY right to be paranoid about it.

    I also think you betray a certain....weirndess here. If I replaced "anti-semeite" in the above sentance with "arab, blackie or Mexican", I'd be banned.

    .........

    I actually went to a Jewish school up to Kindergarden, and to a largely Jewish school after that. Hell, most of my friends are Jewish. Maybe its' a Euro-Jew thing. In America, they do form cliques occasionally, but they're as American as the Italians or the Irish.
     
  17. Snake

    Snake Vault Dweller

    727
    Jul 6, 2003
    hey dude, I dont represent Israel nor do I feel in any way offended by this thread nor do I support every decision the government of Israel does.

    This is where he says all jews. he doesnt strict it to to a group or a country does he?
     
  18. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    Of course, there are many idiots become anti-semitic because of Israeli actions. The intelligent ones, however, don't, and a lot of speech you see in the media and opinion articles and forums like this one comes down to "You have anti-Israeli ideas, thus you're an anti-semite." I loathe it, not in the least because it bars intelligent and critical thinking.
    The comparison is a bit bad, mainly because of the "getting mad for not becoming part of Germany".
    In any case, one of the worst excuses in existance is "they did it to us", and I certainly hope you know this. This is one of the reasons why I don't agree with a lot of Israeli actions, the Israeli actins are more bent on self-preservation than on ending or mitigating the conflict, and with that I have a problem.

    That said, not all actions have a valid excuse.
    Yes, interestingly we were the one country where there was an official protest to against Jewish deportations (the Dokwerkers' Strike). Sadly we still had a lot of Jews deported, percentage wise we were one of the worst nations at that.
    There was also the NSB, a political party formed in the
    thirties which didn't have much popular support, but based itself off of the NSDAP. It was the only political party not disbanded by the nazis after 1941. Its leader, Mussert, also became a prominent person amongst the Nazis.

    To be fair, though, most countries had their own divisions amongst the SS.

    No, you don't. Objectivity and rationale are the very least you can use to counter a man's argument, more specifically someone's arguments if they are intelligent and politely offered.

    I disagree, but this is mainly because the situation just isn't with "arab, blackie or Mexicans" but with anti-semite. "arab, blackie or mexican" would mean that every arab, blackie or Mexican was an anti-semite regardless of his way of thinking, while calling someone an anti-semite means that you target the group that thinks as an anti-semite without basing it off of physical or ethnical characteristics.
    I've never lived in a "big city" so I can't really comment here since I've never lived near any major Jewish centre, but I have to say that this is probably due to the level of religiousness and adherence to one's religion. Here, I think, most Jews would stop calling themselves Jews as soon as they stop believing in the religion, I don't know the situation in the USA, but this also means that most Jews step out of the communities as soon as they become a-religious or differently religious, and the communities therefore reach a much more close-knit level because they really only contain people who have the religious Jewish state of mind.
    Note that this is mostly speculation, though.
    No, he doesn't say all Jews. He's a Jew himself. he said "the Jewish" referring to the Jews as a group, and thereby referring to the most vocal or obvious part of that group.


    EDIT: BB-codes
     
  19. SkynetV4

    SkynetV4 Mildly Dipped

    589
    Jan 25, 2005
    Personally, I think the only solution for the Israel-Palestine conflict seems to be the Stalin one: the solution to all problems is death, no man, no problem.
     
  20. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan
    Admin

    May 27, 2004
    i'm not going to get into this discussion but i'm just gunna clear up this:

    dutch people might have gotten niceties and stuff from the germans, but the belgians have not. basicly at the start of the war the germans said "let us march through your country to attack france or be attacked yourselves". they pulled the same shit on us back in WW1, we said no then, we said now again in WW2. needless to say, they attacked and took us by force.

    only later, nationalist movements in belgium pointed out we had the same 'blood' and then the nazis viewed us as lesser-Arians but an 'ok' race. they recruited for the army & SS and shipped everyone off to the russian front to fight the evil communism! (with the help of the catholic church i might add)