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Brother None

Brother None

This ghoul has seen it all
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Another few tidbits from a magazine preview, from FalloutDude14.<blockquote>Choice quotes:
"Bethesda's last title, Oblivion, was a huge slice of freeform joy."

"[The prospect of Bethesda making Fallout 3 is] as close to a dream game as anyone has managed so far."

"[...]and there's a vociferous (and presumably faintly insane) minority that's convinced this game is a slight on the previous two and will simply be 'Oblivion with guns'."

"It seems that rather than be discouraged by the negativity, the team is spurred on by it."

New info (or at least info that I haven't seen before):
The Behemoth is based on some concept art that Adam Adamowicz drew. Originally it was to use a car battery on a chain as a weapon, instead of the hydrant.

Certain perks can only be taken by certain karma levels.</blockquote>In reply to "and will simply be 'Oblivion with guns'."...

From NMA's Fallout 3 preview.<blockquote>So rather than Oblivion with Guns, what we have here is a conglomerate of influences from a whole bunch of games. Oblivion in a lot of mechanics and perhaps in some deeper gameplay mechanics I have yet to see. Fallout in superficial style and look, occasionally. Some BioWare mechanics on combat. Add a sprinkling of Deus Ex for elements of combat, dialogue and choices. This is a big mess that can only be shortened to "Oblivion with Guns" unfairly.</blockquote>Todd Howard in OXM.<blockquote>The game it's closest to is Oblivion. So now when someone asks, 'Is it Oblivion with guns?' my main answer is, 'in all the best ways.'"</blockquote>Neither of us are saying it's "just" Oblivion with Guns, but NMA is saying it's Oblivion with Guns is an unfair term, Todd Howard is saying he uses the term. Good job attributing a statement from the executive producer to the fans, PC Format.

Link: Bethesda forum post with extra details from the PC Format article.
 
Now you're saying "[...]and there's a vociferous (and presumably faintly insane) minority that's convinced this game is a slight on the previous two and will simply be 'Oblivion with guns'." is aimed at the multiheaded rampaging fire breathing singular beast that is NMA, as opposed to INDIVIDUALS DON'T LUMP US TOGETHER!

Damnit man, you know there are people who say it. Todd Howard's quote isn't a direct "It's Oblivion with guns!" line, either. He says "In all the best ways", along the lines of Warcraft 3 is Warcraft with Diablo in all the best ways. It might be partly true, but it's vague enough and positive-feeling enough to be good PR speak, not a direct example.
 
oblivion in all the best ways ? mumble , sigh

well ill prolly try it when it comes out, as to buying it ? heck no :P
 
Brother None said:
"[...]and there's a vociferous (and presumably faintly insane) minority that's convinced this game is a slight on the previous two and will simply be 'Oblivion with guns'."
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Does anybody know what we call it when a person thinks that anybody who disagrees with them is insane?

We say that person has, Dissocial personality disorder. Can you say, dissocial personality disorder?...
 
Oh my, more slander on the rabid fanbase? How innovative.

Anything interesting to make reading it worthwile?
 
"Bethesda's last title, Oblivion, was a huge slice of freeform joy."
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Their idea of joy must also include watching paint dry, conversing with a pet rock, and getting bashed in the head with a big stick. Because that's what Oblivion felt like to me after playing through (I'm sad to say) 75% of the game.

"[The prospect of Bethesda making Fallout 3 is] as close to a dream game as anyone has managed so far."
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I didn't think there could possibly be yet another "omggzz010r1!!11 Bethesda so powa sucky sucky" reviewer out there but here we sit.

"[...]and there's a vociferous (and presumably faintly insane) minority that's convinced this game is a slight on the previous two and will simply be 'Oblivion with guns'."
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It'd be nice if these people would actually, like (here's a novel concept), read these forums for themselves rather than make baseless assumptions based on what everyone else says. Especially someone who's supposed to be writing news articles/reviews. I guess it's nothing new to media types, but it sure as heck is ridiculous.
 
Jiggly McNerdington said:
Damnit man, you know there are people who say it.
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Not the point. They're writing off criticasters as a whole, while the usage of Oblivion with Guns has always been prominent in previews and now used by Bethesda as well.

Look, I can't really give a serious reply to someone who states that anyone critical of this game compared to the previous ones is "presumably faintly insane". The best serious reply I could come up with was hacking down that stupid mistake.

I could also go "no ur", but why?
 
Jiggly McNerdington said:
Damnit man, you know there are people who say it.
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It was Morrowind with Guns, that expression was popular when the announcement of Bethsoft licensing made everyone run to the then TeS fora. Then Tor Thorsen made it popular as a good thing, many reporters that went to the first presentation of the game demo (build 500?) were privately saying that was what they saw.

Morrowind with Guns annoyed so much Bethsoft that they edited the expression from the Wikipedia, the only thing they edited from all that info. But when console journalists started saying that Oblivion with Guns was a good thing, they grow used to it, and started the "yeah OWG but only the good parts" bit.

BN was the first person that started the idea that the game really isn't OWG.

So many people say it, yeah, but in different contexts and meaning different things.
 
Thing is, to Bethesda's audience, and to many members of the mainstream media - i.e. people who enjoyed Oblivion and think it's the greatest RPG ever created - "Oblivion with guns" is a good thing. Tell the average myopic, console-playin' dipshit (disclaimer: I own several consoles and enjoy all of them) that Bethesda is working on a game that's "like Oblivion, only with guns", and the response is likely to be "OMFG, really? Awesome. I loved Oblivion. Best RPG EVAR!"

To most of us, on the other hand, "Oblivion with guns" is analogous to "shit sandwich with a sprig of parsley". And really, I don't think it's a horrible oversimplification to call Fallout 3 "Oblivion with guns". Yeah, the game is obviously set in the Fallout universe, and will contain many staples of Fallout. That's a huge difference right there. But I think in the end, the Fallout 3 experience will be a lot like that of Oblivion - boring and completely unsatisfying. That's why I don't think it's totally unfair to call this abortion "Oblivion with guns". It may not be technically accurate on all levels...it's just the overall feeling you get about the game.

Anyway, this preview was obviously written by a drooling Oblivion fanboy, thus the venom directed towards the old-school guys.
 
Forhekset said:
Thing is, to Bethesda's audience, and to many members of the mainstream media - i.e. people who enjoyed Oblivion and think it's the greatest RPG ever created - "Oblivion with guns" is a good thing.
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Is probably true, but it isn't a consistent line from Bethesda...

Forhekset said:
I don't think it's totally unfair to call this abortion "Oblivion with guns". It may not be technically accurate on all levels...it's just the overall feeling you get about the game.
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Except that NMA's own previewers don't think that is an accurate discription, and they have seen the demo.

Oblivion-with-guns is potentially a bit of a red herring anyway, because it suits people to think that the greatest criticism of Fallout 3 is simply born out of prejudice from those who would give it that lazy title. If they can then show that it isn't O-W-G, then their critics are obviously wrong. QED, eh, what?

I think that critics and observers have enough information to give more sophisticated analyses of the direction the game is taking, and to give warning about very specific issues.

Nobody here wants Bethesda to make a bad game, just so that they can say I told you so, after all...
 
Bernard Bumner said:
Forhekset said:
Thing is, to Bethesda's audience, and to many members of the mainstream media - i.e. people who enjoyed Oblivion and think it's the greatest RPG ever created - "Oblivion with guns" is a good thing.
Click to expand...

Is probably true, but it isn't a consistent line from Bethesda...

Forhekset said:
I don't think it's totally unfair to call this abortion "Oblivion with guns". It may not be technically accurate on all levels...it's just the overall feeling you get about the game.
Click to expand...

Except that NMA's own previewers don't think that is an accurate discription, and they have seen the demo.

Oblivion-with-guns is potentially a bit of a red herring anyway, because it suits people to think that the greatest criticism of Fallout 3 is simply born out of prejudice from those who would give it that lazy title. If they can then show that it isn't O-W-G, then their critics are obviously wrong. QED, eh, what?

I think that critics and observers have enough information to give more sophisticated analyses of the direction the game is taking, and to give warning about very specific issues.

Nobody here wants Bethesda to make a bad game, just so that they can say I told you so, after all...
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Yeah, I realize that when Beth says that FO3 is "Oblivion with guns in all the best ways", they don't mean that FO3 is a post-apocalyptic mod for Oblivion. I understand that they mean that FO3 contains all of Oblivion's best elements...whatever those may be. All I'm saying is that "Oblivion with guns" isn't a bad thing to Bethesda's audience (which doesn't include most of us here at NMA), so the continued gnashing of teeth over the phrase is a bit silly.

NMA's previewers haven't played the game, so they don't know exactly what feeling one will get from Fallout 3. I don't know that, either. I'm merely guessing that it will be a lot like the feeling I got when playing Oblivion - one of indifference and boredom. I already admitted that "Oblivion with guns" was inaccurate on a technical level. You can make that assumption based on the info in the demo, I'm sure. However, I'm talking about something else altogether - the feeling you get from the game.

You know when you play a game in any long-running series, and it's done right, and you say "Yep, this just feels right - this feels like a (blank) game." I'm afraid that Fallout 3 is going to feel more like Oblivion set in a PA wasteland than a true Fallout game.

Maybe "Nukular Oblivion" is a more accurate description than "Oblivion with guns", eh? "Oblivion with a retarded hand-held nuke launcher and exploding nukular cars", maybe.

Oh and believe me, I don't want Bethesda to make a bad game. I hope Fallout 3 is awesome. I hope that I'll enjoy it. Based on what I've seen so far, I don't think I will. But we'll see. Depends on how bad the combat is. So far it looks like it sucks.
 
Bernard Bumner said:
Nobody here wants Bethesda to make a bad game, just so that they can say I told you so, after all...
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I do. I want there game to fail so bad it causes the name "bethesda" to be used as the butt of every bad video game joke for years to come. And I want said bad-video-game-joke to grow into a pop-culture phenomenon of epic proportions, so epic that the city of "Bethesda" Maryland will be forced to change there name, permanently.

And then I'm going to right my "I told you so". Exept it won't be an "I told you so" it will be a 10000 word essay not only about how much there game sucks, but how, as people, they are repulsive blight not only on the game industry but on the human race as a whole. Then I'm going to send them a copy every single day for an entire fucking year.
 
Genoq said:
I do. I want there game to fail so bad it causes the name "bethesda" to be used as the butt of every bad video game joke for years to come.
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Then you're stupid.

I'd like Bethesda to realise their way is not the way when it comes to Fallout, but I'm not so sure a flop would bring that about, and even if it would it's just too weird to wish a game to be bad. Hell, it's not just weird, it's just plain stupid.
 
I have my doubts about that viewpoint.

would wishing that it won't suck, when a large number of signs point the other way, really be any less stupid than making a wish that meshes well with what we've seen so far?

To me, hoping that it will be good, seems like wishing that I could skip naked across the freeway without getting smashed by a Mack truck...

At least if he wishes it sucks and it ends up sucking he'll get the benefit of feeling right about something.

If he wants it to be great and it ends up sucking he gets nothing at all. (other than a good life lesson)
 
Brother None said:
I'd like Bethesda to realise their way is not the way when it comes to Fallout, but I'm not so sure a flop would bring that about,
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Then what will? A great reception will tell bethesda that they did everything right, opening the door for more shitty sequels. A luke-warm reception will tell them they did something wrong, but not necessarily what we would consider wrong. Meaning, they could easily assume that they need to put in more violence, explosions, mini-nukes and what not, turning it into even more of a generic action game.

A bad reception might tell them that nothing they did was correct, at which point they might consider selling the IP to a another developer, who will hopefully do things right, giving the franchise another chance.
 
A bad reception might tell them that nothing they did was correct
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Wrong.

A flop doesn't imply the management realizing *why* it flopped.
 
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