Problems with Independent Ending

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Mr Krepe, Aug 6, 2011.

  1. The Enclave 86

    The Enclave 86 Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    394
    Jul 5, 2010
    Unless those people aren't you friends :3. I help the Legion personally, I think that they suck but whatever keeps hurting the NCR is game in my book.
     
  2. James Snowscoran

    James Snowscoran Still Mildly Glowing

    218
    Jun 1, 2011
    Lots of people seem to have issues with the independent ending, but what makes the House ending so very different?
     
  3. quotetheraven90

    quotetheraven90 First time out of the vault

    61
    Jul 12, 2011
    Even as a pro-Legion character, I still can't bring myself to hate The Kings and Follower. They're genuinely trying to help everyone.
     
  4. Iabimyshkin

    Iabimyshkin First time out of the vault

    64
    Dec 20, 2010
    Sorry but you are deluding yourself. I too tried to convince myself of this but, i'm sorry to say, it is an entirely unconvincing delusion. The way Yes man puts it leaves little doubt in my mind.

    'I didn't wanna make a big deal of this until AFTER we won but, well... I found some code snippets in Mr. Houses data banks that will let me... UM... reprogram my personality. To be a little more assertive basically'


    .....HMMMMMMMM, now his enthused tone of voice suddenly sounds incredibly patronising and sarcastic. All of his hesitation and ums are because he is now 'letting you down gently'. Then comes the bit that really shows the delusion for what it is and can only be interpreted as Yes man giving you the brush off.

    'I... I... guess i'll see you around!'

    Now come on, does that sound like he is your loyal servant and you are the boss of vegas, or does it sound like you've just been dumped?

    'We accomplished a lot together, it was fun... take care!'

    Seriously, you are never gonna see Yes Man again and you will be having no say whatsoever in the running of New Vegas. It isn't really open to interpretation, you've been suckered, end of story. IT was fun, take care? That is him giving you short shrift and saying thanks and so long. I tried to kid myself that it wasn't the case, surely Obsidian haven't just done that to me? Sorry but this ending leaves you with no power and you are apparently punished for working towards your own goals and trying to take power for yourself.

    You're left with nothing really but minor recognition that you helped Vegas get a shallow form of independence, though not really independent because it is run by a robot dictator. Probably only independent until the NCR return in force with pulse guns, grenades etc. and takes out the securitrons. A deeply unsatisfying ending.

    This time in my second play through i'm storming the Mojave with the bear, for the Republic! I want nothing more than the NCR flag flying from the Vegas strip.
     
  5. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    :salute:

    Another reason why my Legion playthrough made me very uneasy. Kill NCR? OK, I guess, sworn enemies and all. But the Kings getting either enslaved, or enslaved and killed? The Followers getting booted out, or hunted down and exterminated just because? Arcade Gannon dead, imprisoned by NCR, or forced to serve a man he hates to the point of killing himself? Novac and Primm (the cities I broke my back trying to help) razed? Fuck this shit. At least Boone gets a moment of glory before dying.
     
  6. Courier

    Courier Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite

    Apr 10, 2011
    Then why do the ending cutscenes still say that you run Vegas instead of talking about a robot apocalypse? Do you think the ending cutscenes are lying? That whole "assertiveness" thing was the developer's way of tying up a loose end in the story.

    Edit: The wiki says the code he found was likely a fail-safe put in place by Mr. House to make sure Vegas would still be in safe hands if he died. The Courier would still be in charge, but Yes Man won't start massacring people on the streets just because the Courier told him to.
     
  7. The Enclave 86

    The Enclave 86 Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    394
    Jul 5, 2010
    House isn't an unqualified leader who just roped people into alliances by doing them favours. He has money, an existing infastructure and a long term plan.
     
  8. James Snowscoran

    James Snowscoran Still Mildly Glowing

    218
    Jun 1, 2011
    How is his alliances special? All he did on his own was to bribe three tribes with a casino each, which ended up with two of them plotting to overthrow him and the last harbouring a powerful faction of cannibals who would prefer to ally with the Legion.

    Money and infrastructure doesn't disappear with House's death. And his long-term plan, what excactly is that about? Sending humans into space?
     
  9. The Enclave 86

    The Enclave 86 Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    394
    Jul 5, 2010
    They aren't allies, one of the Tops guys is plotting to overthrow House and competely on his own - much to the shock of his second.

    The Omertas? Yeah I'll give you that.

    House didn't make the Ultra Luxe crowd cannibals, in-fact he did his best to reform them and succeeded until one guy tries to reintroduce the system - again - not to the knowledge of his fellows (the leader of whom, IIRC, is totally against the idea).


    Completely starting a whole new civilisation on another planet? Truly he is narrow-minded. I am saying why House's ending is different to the Independant ending, not saying that House is unique; that is having a pre-established infastructure is more valuable than the Courier in the Independant Ending killing his way to the top.
     
  10. James Snowscoran

    James Snowscoran Still Mildly Glowing

    218
    Jun 1, 2011
    Technically the in-game House ending is very similiar to the independent ending. I'm still wondering: With the exception of a different guy at the top, who doesn't dream of sending people into space, what excactly is the big difference?
     
  11. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    Well for some people simply being at the top is a massive difference. For New Vegas itself I would say it doesn't really matter. It simply doesn't have enough ressources (especially now that NCR has pulled out) to grow and form a true power before the two empires rebuild and come back for more, and prepared this time. Unless House can construct factories to produce more Securitrons in a few years, and given the sorry state of the Strip I doubt it, New Vegas will lose a war of attrition just like the Brotherhood did.
     
  12. Iabimyshkin

    Iabimyshkin First time out of the vault

    64
    Dec 20, 2010

    To the very best of my recollection all it actually says is that you are recognised as the one who helped Vegas gain its independence. It does not say they recognise you as the leader and it in NO WAY says explicitly that you control Vegas. I'm sorry, I want to be with you, I want to be convinced but i'm not at all. Listen to the way Yes man breaks it to you. The ending video does not hail you as leader. The public recognise your contribution for stopping vegas being taken over by the legion and the NCR. Yes man is in the mainframe and entirely in control. I never said anything about a robot apocalypse I just said the courier runs nothing and controls nothing. Yipee people know I helped, big whoop.

    'So um.... see you around'.

    Please stop trying to convince me that Yes Man isn't saying goodbye and brushing me off because, quite clearly, that is what he's doing.
     
  13. burningsnow126

    burningsnow126 First time out of the vault

    67
    Jul 2, 2011
    I think that yes-man is saying goodbye to you because the new personality may not remember all you did together. Maybe its like yes-man knows that his personality will "die" and that a new one will already know what to do and take his place because yes-man is reprogramming it to do that. Poor Yes-man :(
     
  14. Courier

    Courier Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite

    Apr 10, 2011
    Yeah, basically Yes-Man develops a House like personality that you can control, but he won't listen to more insane requests from you. This new assertiveness is pretty much a fail-safe to make sure that 1. Nobody else but you controls Yes Man and 2. If you're a complete idiot or pure evil Yes Man won't just let you destroy Vegas.

    You might not actually run Vegas's day-to-day operations, but you're still pretty much the de-facto ruler which is a better situation for you than any of the other endings. Did you really want to micromanage Vegas for the rest of your life?
     
  15. Green Gecko

    Green Gecko First time out of the vault

    9
    Aug 9, 2011
    By far my favorite ending. There's no goverment like no goverment. New, a little more assertive Yes Man is probably just what he says he is, a little bit more assertive. I don't think House planned on turning him into Skynet.
     
  16. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    He also didn't plan for the Courier to waltz in wearing Power Armor and wielding a Tesla Cannon, anihilating his robots and blasting his arse off.

    We can see how that particular bit of planning turned out.
     
  17. Iabimyshkin

    Iabimyshkin First time out of the vault

    64
    Dec 20, 2010
    If you were the de-facto ruler of New Vegas i'm certain it would have said so in the ending video! That is a pretty massive consequence from your actions for it not to be mentioned. You are recognised as contributing to independence but nothing is said about you being a leader.

    Deluded, sorry.

    'See you around'. It's what you say to someone who you have absolutely no plans to 'see around'. Why is he so hesitant in his last words to you? Why does he sound so much like a boyfriend dumping a girlfriend?
     
  18. Courier

    Courier Venerable Relic of the Wastes
    Orderite

    Apr 10, 2011
    It doesn't say anything about Yes Man leading it either. The ending was intentionally ambiguous because if your character was pure evil or otherwise unfit to rule Vegas, then the new Yes Man wouldn't let him. That's why the ending always talks about the securitron army putting an end to the chaos in the streets, even if you're a chaotic or evil character that would have wanted that.


    Edit: Like if you destroy the Securitron army at the Fort, Yes Man is obviously displeased with that. This "assertiveness" feature is simply to make sure the Courier doesn't do stupid shit like that and ruin Vegas.
     
  19. Stanislao Moulinsky

    Stanislao Moulinsky Vault Fossil

    Jul 16, 2009
    Yes, New Vegas has no resources that they can sell and make a profit with. Other than clean water and electricity, that is, both highly valuable.
     
  20. NemZ

    NemZ First time out of the vault

    29
    Aug 7, 2011
    Not to mention the implications of my not sabotaging the bottlecap machine.

    1) Switch local economy over to a 'chip' standard rather than caps, closing the casinos (which won't serve much purpose without the NCR occupation anyway) but keeping the trade value with caps at the standard existing rates.

    2) Make a major push for development, trading away all the caps in the region you can gather up (and make as needed) in exchange for practical goods via NCR merchants.

    3) Once the NCR currency starts to become inflated due to the massive and ongoing influx of new money, change the exchange rates and insist on only selling power and water based on the rate in chips.

    Oh, and then you can turn around and run the same scam on the Legion by minting coins out of the 30+ ingots of gold (partially cut with another metal along the way, of course) that you brought back from the Sierra Madre.