So if Caesar had won, what would happen next?

[OGHorrigan2161]

Say that the Courier allows a Legion victory and they manage to get to New Vegas and establish their dominion over the place.

Is Caesar's plan nonsense from here?

Even if they remove his brain tumor?

Or does he have a chance to conquer NCR and implement his dialectic.

Just look at history, Hitler drove east and made a good push and got wrecked by the soviets on their ground.
I believe (which many in this thread have greatly explained in detail) with everything the NCR has at home he's honestly fucked.
An endless Germania to his west is my conclusion.

 

[OGHorrigan2161]

I wonder if Hopeville's destruction also screwed with NCR's ability to resupply itself.

It did. I'm pretty sure Ulysses alluded to that in lonesome road.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

It did. I'm pretty sure Ulysses alluded to that in lonesome road.

And Joshua Graham in Honest Hearts

 

[FlukeboxHero]

The Hub, as it tied the Wasteland together in Fallout 1, ties together NCR, dividing it in three. To the north, you have the political center of the State of Shady (along with Junktown). To the south is the industrial capital in the Boneyard, along with Dayglow. To the west is the presumptive agricultural center, the more-recently acquired Central Valley, with the state of Maxson, Sac-Town, and the Redding Territory (presumably also where most of the fighting of the NCR-Brotherhood War is).

The Hub itself, the economic and logistical center of NCR, presumably ties the country together with its roads and rail networks. If you take that, NCR is cut in three, cut off from each other and able to be taken piecemeal without coordination or supplies between the thirds. Once the Hub is taken I presume Caesar will want to go for Shady Sands first, take out the political center and break the will of the south and the valley to fight. The Legion moves up the valley itself, just a straight flat line without many natural defenses. Lightly settled with the Brotherhood pocketed throughout, the Central Valley will crumble pretty easily. It migth fall apart without the Legion even entering it, just from political chaos and the Brotherhood staging breakout raids from their bunkers and hidden outposts.

My post doesn't contribute to this discussion, but this reminds me of the opening Julius Caesar's Commentaries.

"All Gaul is divided into three parts, one of which the Belgae inhabit, the Aquitani another, those who in their own language are called “Celts,” in our language “Gauls,” the third. All these differ from each other in language, customs and laws."

Since Caesar has these, he might be even more tempted to hit the Hub. (But who's his Vercingetorix?)

Now, does the Legion win the Battle of Barstow or the Battle of the Hub? I think not. As others mention, the NCR has superior mobility/maneuver to the Legion, not only does it have mechanized units it also has rail infrastructure in its heartland. While the NCR failed to utilize it's mechanized capacity in the eastern Mojave, now that the Legion is advancing into its core territory they'll have to pull their heads out. And since the Legion is now marching into the part of NCR supplied by rail lines, they'll be shocked at how quickly the Californians are able to get men and materiel in place.

During the week's march from the mountain pass to Barstow, I think the NCR will turn the tables on Caesar and harass him the whole way down. If Caesar attempts to campaign through the desert to obviate ambushes and attacks, he'll find himself outmaneuvered by mechanized NCR forces in the wide open high desert. He'll have to stick to Long 15 and Interstate 40, dealing with attacks and needling the whole time. And the NCR will be ready for him at Barstow.

This wants me to write a Legion campaign similar to Xenophon and his 10,000 hoplites trying to make it home from deep in hostile territory. You can even emulate the moment where Xenophon finds the ruins of an Assyrian city, which is larger than anything the Greeks could ever build.

Players are soldiers, or mercenaries, in a battle where they lose (or their commander is killed if they win like what happened to Xenophon). Their in NCR surrounded by angry settlers, soldiers, and Brotherhood, Caesar has kicked the hornets' nest, and the Bull is dying.

 

[CT Phipps]

Yeah, I think Caesar's Legion would be utterly pasted if not for the ridiculous series of bad luck rolls under Kimball.

* The Divide being destroyed
* Oliver's incompetence
* The Brotherhood of Steel battle at the solar energy farm
* The Great Khans fucking up things after Bitter Springs
* The Powder Gangers
* Two of House's gangs planning on betraying him, giving them a chance to royally screw NCR.

It's really a perfect storm of events to give them a fighting chance at Hoover Dam.

 

[Yossarrion]

I think a number of things happens that keeps Caesar in Nevada. I also assume the courier was an NCR/House type character canonically and died at Hoover dam. I think he wouldn't push into California without it being prepped to be destabilized. I can definitely see frumentarii infiltrating the NCR congress, the executive positions of companies, and even just starting small groups much like the communists did in 50s America.

I also think that Caesar wouldn't be able to keep lanius penned up doing nothing and would need to distract him until the invasion was ready. I feel in a legion playthrough the rangers would defect from NCR and go back to the desert ranger way, causing a lot of trouble for Caesar in the style of guerilla warfare. The Khan's seem to have enough plot armor they would inevitably survive the backstabbing of the legion and cause problems too.

There would be a lot of fires to put out at home, and ironically Caesar would also have to deal with the fiends he armed and radicalized much like the Americans did with the Mujahideen. The Mojave would not be an open and shut book with him claiming Vegas.

 

[CT Phipps]

I think a number of things happens that keeps Caesar in Nevada. I also assume the courier was an NCR/House type character canonically and died at Hoover dam. I think he wouldn't push into California without it being prepped to be destabilized. I can definitely see frumentarii infiltrating the NCR congress, the executive positions of companies, and even just starting small groups much like the communists did in 50s America.

Wouldn't all of those positions require them to be of a mindset different than child soldiers raised to believe Caesar is a god? A lot of cults suffer from losses when they have their people outside of the cult's direct media feed and bubble. The Frumentari in the Great Khans, for example, ends up exposing himself relatively easily.

 

[Yossarrion]

Wouldn't all of those positions require them to be of a mindset different than child soldiers raised to believe Caesar is a god? A lot of cults suffer from losses when they have their people outside of the cult's direct media feed and bubble. The Frumentari in the Great Khans, for example, ends up exposing himself relatively easily.

Captain Curtis in the NCR is an officer in the NCR and had joined before they even encountered Caesars Legion. Karl was just a shitty example because they didn't put much effort into exposing him.