The best and the worst in FNV

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Gutterfighter, Jul 9, 2013.

  1. Gutterfighter

    Gutterfighter First time out of the vault

    Jun 24, 2013
    In what parts of Fallout: New Vegas did Bethesda succeed and where it failed?
    My thoughts:

    + Companions, lots of quests and dialogue, some are just easier to trigger than others
    + Vault 22 and Dead Money "mood"
    + Honest Hearts environment, Randall Clark, the Burned Man
    + repair, weapon mods, crafting.
    + non-vital Power Armor, I did fine with Light Armor
    + enough different weapons for any playstyle
    + i liked the quests, which didn't involve violence

    - Why no prone position?
    - I don't like stealing, so some items are basically unobtainable. I would be willing to pay for any item, which I find and I would bet that even Cannibal Johnson would sell his copy of Grognak for enough bottlecaps (or human flesh...). Or Cpl Sterling would part with his carbine.
    - Too easy on even VH HC, game isn't balanced for additional 20 levels from DLC's (though not everybody got them)
    - Old World Blues: too Wild Wastelandy and high tech even for Fallout
    - Legion: too shallow and obviously evil faction
    - non-vital Power Armor
    - Why is there no armor mods? Should be easy to come up with some.
    - Why would freeside thug armed with a knife attack a person armed with riot shotgun, accompanied by a Super-mutant and a laser-shooting flying robot? Wait for easier prey, idiot.
    - BoS was, well, I don't know, too thick-headed. Even a Courier, who can talk to Aback down can't convince Elder MacNamara to come out of hiding.

    Seems that it's a lot easier to come up with faults or mistakes, but the game has still hit the spot with me. And after some mods, well, it all gets a lot better.
  2. Languorous_Maiar

    Languorous_Maiar A Smooth-Skin

    Oct 25, 2011
    So basically you don't get all sense of special items.
    If all special/unique items could be easily obtained... what is point of them?
    Actually sterlings weapon for example, is great minor addition to the game. At first, you need to note it and then to get it by stealing/killing him.

    Actually most of your cons are not cons imho.
  3. Millim

    Millim Half-way Through My Half-life

    Oct 13, 2010
    My biggest problem was that the Mojave Wasteland felt bland when compared to the Capital Wasteland. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed gambling and I liked all the places as well, but the CW seemed more creepier, as if something was always out to get you.
  4. Languorous_Maiar

    Languorous_Maiar A Smooth-Skin

    Oct 25, 2011
    It's better to be bland and have sense and logic.
    Capital Wasteland looks like it was nuked 10 years before game starts, not 200...
  5. Mohamed2001

    Mohamed2001 HATE NEWSPAPERS

    Jan 28, 2013
    Mojave Wasteland follows the style of the classic Fallout games.

    Meanwhile, Capital Wasteland has a whole new style.
  6. Sub-Human

    Sub-Human -

    May 31, 2011
    Just a quick note - Obsidian worked on New Vegas, not Bethesda.
  7. BonusWaffle

    BonusWaffle Still Mildly Glowing

    Mar 6, 2013
    I disagree that The legion is objectively evil. Legion territory is much safer than even the ncrs land and the ncr cant support all the territory its trying to expand into creating a LOT of problems both for its own people and the people its trying to forcibly integrate. I think you only came to the conclusion that the ncr are the good guys and the legion are the bad guys because you spend 99 percent of the game in the ncr, not because the legion is too evil.

    + ammunition crafting
    + weapon attachments
    + last three dlcs
    + balanced, fun to use weapons
    + Well written, player affected storyline

    - no craftable weapons (railroad gun!!)
    - that little skill number on the weapon description
    - lack of huge enemies.
    - dead money and vault 22
  8. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I think this is a taste thing, I agree that OWB can be sometimes really absurd when it tries to be silly with retro sci fi references, but regarding it to be to high tech.

    This place was suppose to be more advanced than anything you would find in the wasteland outside the laboratories of the Enclave, and Big MT even surpassed them here and there.

    The only questionable thing might be the teleportation stuff, I think it might have been better if the satellite signal had led you to the nearby train tunnel which would lead you to Big MT (where you would be captured by robots).
  9. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    There are too many Pros to list, so I'll list the cons.

    -The lack of development of Caesar's Legion
    -Lack of craftable weapons
    -Vault 22 was 2spooky4me
    - Mojave was too NCR controlled, it should have been more contested and open.
    -NCR were implied to be the good guys, and to your average casual gamer, they were the good guys.
    - Archimedes II wasn't nearly OP enough
    -Supplies needed to be rarer
    -Caesars Legion generally, a good idea and concept, poorly executed.
  10. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    This in general I didn't mind because the craftable weapons in Fallout 3 were pretty stupid in general.

    I might change my mind if you meant more reasonable and realistic weapons than the 'choo-choo' gun and the 'Rock-it launcher'. (Hitting people hard enough with a teddy bear will make their heads pop off like a cork of a champagne bottle)
  11. BonusWaffle

    BonusWaffle Still Mildly Glowing

    Mar 6, 2013
    What do you have against a gun that fires railroad spikes?
  12. Gutterfighter

    Gutterfighter First time out of the vault

    Jun 24, 2013
    Back to my preferences then, in fact two big things that bothered me were the snowglobes and implants. To get just caps for the globes was really frustrating. I think i had already over 20000 caps and plenty of stashed supplies, when I sold them first time.
    And implants... Just fork over some cash and BAM, you are a cyborg. Why not even some treasure hunt or quest for them? How is that for a sense of accomplishment?
  13. Courier

    Courier Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 10, 2011
    I don't see how this is a con.
  14. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    The same way "FONV was too much RPG for my tastes" is a bad thing... Just don't think about it. =|

    But back to the original topic, listing the best and worst (since I might as well DO something with this post):

    The Best

    -Immersive Setting
    I personally hate Las Vegas, and when I heard this game would be taking place there, on top of mistakenly believing it to be another disappointment from Bethesda, I loathed the idea of its setting. But playing the game, I find it truly inspiring. Not only did I feel like I was really back in the Fallout-verse, but I loved wandering between vacant desert, try lake beds, ghost towns, places full of life and places totally barren, and amidst it all the inhabited locations came to life, as well. I never spent so much time in a single Town/City/Hub/etc in ANY great RPG as I did in New Vegas. That place could entertain for days... But perhaps most importantly about the setting was that it was believable.

    -EVERY New Innovation/Improvement
    From Weapon Mods to Hardcore Mode to Reputation to True Iron Sights... If it was newly implemented in FONV and wasn't present in FO3, you can bet it was a high-point for the game. Not just to knock the previous title, but when Obsidian announced all of the features they were including as selling points, they were right to do so, because they were very attractive ideas!

    -Captivating Story
    Simple plots like murder mysteries or revenge can age very poorly once they've been fulfilled. Even in FO1, the struggle to find the Water Chip was over forever once you finally found it just once, and the mystery was gone forever. Despite the premise that starts FONV off being a simple tracking down the men who wronged you for your revenge scenario, it turns out to be the tip of the iceberg when the player becomes caught up in the political intrigue and various power struggles within the region. Because of the myriad of possible turns the story can take, FONV's woven tale can entertain for weeks on end.

    -Powerful Mood
    Like FO1, which arguably had the best ambient mood, FONV evokes feelings as you trek through the Mojave Wasteland. The Lucky 38 feels spooky. Vault 34 feels unnerving. Fortification Hill feels intimidating. Whether it's from tiny details given by NPCs, or musical cues, or the presence (or lack thereof) of particular inhabitants that experience in dealing with left certain impressions of on you, transitioning into various locales would paint a sense that matched them quite appropriately. Large landscapes felt scenic, grand, and inspiring. Dangerous places would get your heart pounding. All of the details matched the setting just right to make them "feel" perfect.

    -The Music
    Right beside FO2, I'd say that FONV has my favorite soundtrack of the entire series. As mentioned above, key music played an important role in establishing the proper mood for much of the game, and on top of that both creative re-imaginings of the series' music theme and replays of previous tracks from older games made for an incredibly atmospheric experience.

    The Worst

    -The Carryovers
    This is unfortunately vague because it applies to SO much of the game. Like the innovations being great pros, everything else about FONV was a terrible con. Being stuck with the same terrible game engine, the same terrible watered down character primary/derived stats, the same terrible sub-genre of "RPS that pretends to be RPG" were all detriments to this otherwise great title. It also doomed FONV to operate within poor graphics from an almost-decade-old engine, characterizing everyone portrayed within the game as disturbingly infant-like or mannequin-looking.

    -Absence of Details
    Largely a carryover, FONV, like its predecessor, was made as a watered-down RPG tailored to a "wider audience". Not a detail-packed open-ended RPG for true RPG fanatics, like the originals. Every item, whether they be weapons, ammo, or clothing, just appeared and was detailed simplistically. Finding important stats (like ST requirements) could prove difficult because the UI was designed with a lack of information in mind, not a wealth of details. The ability to approach a problem with any solution outside of "kill" or "talk to" would spawn a pop-up menu that simply served to- on top of break immersion -illustrate how foreign these ideas were to the game's design. For every stat and special "interact" feature expected by RPG fans, the game provided a shadow of the experience for the sake of cowing to "everyone's" tastes, instead of their own.

    -Too Easy
    Largely another carryover from the previous title, this issue was so systemic that the innovations made by Obsidian were largely rendered pointless as far as difficulty was concerned. Whatever it was, it was "easy". It was "easy" to amass a fortune because Random Drop Tables provided an abundance of items for players to collect, and there being no limitations to how much the player could carry while traveling meant that EVERYONE, in short order, would be the richest Wastelander in existence. It was "easy" to kill enemies because their derived stats were a shadow of the player's derived stats, and they were engineered by brain-dead AI routines that had to obey a hopelessly poorly-designed and outdated game engine, and the aforementioned "FPS that pretends to be RPG" nature of the title meant personal "skill" meant more than skill POINTS. Obsidian tried to make something of this game, despite the terrible resources they were forced to work with, and what they accomplished was remarkable. But the game was still painfully absent of any challenge.

    -Repetitive Voice Talent
    While some would care to argue that this was a mixed bag, there sheer VOLUME of repetitive voices and the mediocre talent of the actors in most of them drowns out the great casting choices and personifications of the main cast. True, the main characters of FONV are brilliantly acted and voiced (with the notable exception of General Lee Oliver, a character the player will ALWAYS face at the end of the game), but they make up for a tiny faction of all of the voices you listen to in the game. AND THEY'RE ALL THE SAME 5 PEOPLE!!! On top of hundreds of unnamed NPCs, the same few voice actors are credited with providing voices from 12-20 named (minor) NPCs, each! For all the virtues of the game's setting, story, mood, and music, most of that falls by the wayside as your suspension of disbelief evaporates when you feel like you've run across the 200th person who looks, sounds, and acts like a perfect clone of EVERYONE ELSE you've encountered in your travels.
  15. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    That one was more of a joke one I guess, I like exploring Vaults, but I've only been in Vault 22 once because of how scared I got during my trip there.
  16. woo1108

    woo1108 Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 27, 2012
    -Quest marker
    -dialog system+journal that give answer to player directly
    -based on beth's horrible engine
    -rushed because of beth
    -Obsidian couldn't get bonus because beth is son of bitxx
    -beth earn money by this

    except these everything is good

    for best
    +Non-linear questline and ending
    +9mm SMG!!!!!!!!!!
    +lonesome road
    +granade rifle
  17. Onholyservicebound

    Onholyservicebound First time out of the vault

    Jan 19, 2013
    Pros: -The fact that the factions were diverse, and took exploration to understand. Example:Caesar's Legion isn't pure evil, but not just any dumbass who went to the fort, guns a blazing would know that.

    Their slaves consist of those from conquered military tribes, settlements under legion territory is not harassed. NCR Territories are, but only as demoralizing military tactics.

    -Balance in equipment, in FO3, I had power armor by the end of the game, and that's what I used. In FO1 and 2 it was exactly the same. In F:NV however, I actually had to weigh the pros and cons of wearing light, medium, or heavy armor. And it was perfectly viable to wear light armour through the entire game, and actually do better in many aspects because of it. Same with weapons, and how they could all potentially be useful with the right build.

    -Companions/companion wheel

    -Weapon mods.

    -DLCs, and the fact that they added more then just quests.(perks/traits/eq.)

    -Improved SPECIAL importance over FO3.

    -No big guns



    -Lacking in legion territory and exposition.
  18. Mohamed2001

    Mohamed2001 HATE NEWSPAPERS

    Jan 28, 2013
    The lacking is Legion is because of Bethesda giving Obsidian only 1 year. You were supposed to travel east of the dam and explore it, like you did with the NCR. But obviously, it wasn't added.
  19. Onholyservicebound

    Onholyservicebound First time out of the vault

    Jan 19, 2013
    I'm aware of the reason, but that doesn't make it any less of a con. That overall feeling of being less than it should have been is also a con for me in more than one aspect. But I appreciate things like obsidian's dedication to fixing the bugs after release, expanding on the legion with DLCs(Ullyses/graham).

    Hopefully they'll get a chance to make a NV:2 some day.
  20. AmericanSephiroth

    AmericanSephiroth First time out of the vault

    Dec 31, 2012

    - Open ended story with multiple factions and people who you can work with or slaughter

    - Many special items to find and collect and the fact they are NOT required to have a goodtime

    - OPTIONAL challenge the fact of the matter is I personally dislike forced challenge (and challenge in general) and the fact that with either enough effort or just plain glitching one can become a god of the wasteland who ends fights by blinking is a pro for me this is why I use a save editor in Dark Souls because leveling up is meaningless and a game being hard for lulz is a CHEAP way to call itself "unique"

    - Multiple endings including one where you take power yourself if you dislike the factions who are trying to take over personally


    - Too NCR sided I know this was because of time constraints and that is terrible but as it stands Legion is almost lulzy evil and siding with them locks you out of a MASSIVE chunk of the game and the morality of some quests is too black and white.

    - Some options that should be there just aren't like if you are going to take power for yourself why can't you take the field later after the NCR and the legion are slugging it out and wipe out the victors or why can't you take the Legion over if you wipe out Caesar like if you take out him and his guards take the throne and DARE someone to challenge you. I'd also like if you could manifest your own army from factions that are loyal to you rather than just become House 2.0 like NCR troops/rangers who prefer you etc... ( I know there are shades of this in the game I would just like more meat to it)

    - Its a bit much "FPSy" but this is a minor gripe

    - I do wish the companions were more developed and were actually more useful but thats an issue with the AI and can't really be helped.

    I think thats everything oh one thing I'd like is maybe some mod support for consoles (my computer cannot run any games past fallout 2 and i have no money for a new one i mean literally no money not even like 2 dollars) oh well maybe next time.