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Discussion in 'Fallout 4 modding' started by ironmask, Mar 12, 2018.
The right circumstances being a complete remaking of the FO3 voice, texture, and model assets.
I don't understand why people are upset at Bethesda for protecting their copyright.
Have any big mods ever 'worked'? Especially for these complex games? I dunno, I've always been let down by them.
I remember a mod for Fallout 3 about exploring the world. Forth Reich, new Russia, that sort of thing. Died like the rest of em....
I don't get why people don't just make their own games if they are going to spend that much time and creative energy on a mod. It's like fan fiction. Can't anyone use their imagination to come up with new ideas? Technical improvements to gameplay or visual updates I understand, but designing entirely new locations and recording dialogue is overly ambitious in my opinion. What's even more unecessary is taking a mediocre game like Fallout 3 and improving the parts of it that weren't its weaknesses in the first place. Fallout 3 needs traits, skill checks, branching quests, crafting, the companion wheel, and ammo types before it needs Fallout 4's engine. I mean seriously, where are peoples' priorities?
Enderal's fucking amazing but in fairness Skyrim has a lot more modding work flow around it.
Ports and such sort aren't fanfiction, they're renovation/restoration. You wouldn't mtell mthose lads taking care of museum paintings to just fuck off and make their own!
When it's changing stuff, then it's the remaster/remake line. Again, it's not a talentless job and it's hard to do right considering that most likely uou'll have angry fanboys in your tits even if you nail it.
I myself am not saying much because I consider kind of hipocritical how most of us wouldn't act that way (and don't) when it comes to the very damn similar project or scenario for New Vegas, despite the already treaded similarities and double standards. Needless to say that Bethesda is completely on the right and that they don't get shut down as soon as the project becomes public but rather because explicit copyright infringement is a bit of props they do deserve.
My bad, I should have been clearer. That was more in reference to "big mods" in general. The Fallout 3 remake is just a certain breed of idiotic because why would you touch up a museum painting if:
A) You can still see the painting just fine.
B) The artistic value of the work is debatable, especially compared to other similar pieces (in this case New Vegas).
It just seems asinine to me. But then again I should probably expect that from the same geniuses who asked a company for their blessing on something they are legally required to oppose.
A) "Just fine" usually isn't enough, for the people working on it and many of the players. By that logic you shouldn't bother with bugfix mods, I find.
B) If only the "true kino" shit got this treatment port companies and the whole restorative industry would be kind of fucked. Someone will do it eventually anyway.
Well, big mods are as good a development case as any, with some more extreme pros and cons. Most of the art and asset legwork is done, often added to other mods made by the community, but they'll always be a non professional project. The average development for a game-sized mod is on around four years, more or less (usually more), and all what ensues to have such an elongated development. If you luck past any problems with copyright just wait until Dave has a baby or Joe got a new job.
It is no doubt a massive gamble though, Enderal is the exception, let alone quality-wise. And it's technically getting the slowed development problem but that's just for some updating and jazz.
Based on the amount of work required, I think there is a clear difference between fixing oversights in an existing game's engine and completely rebuilding something onto another platform. But that's just me. I get what you are saying about people not being satisfied with mediocrity though. Which is why it baffles me they want to focus on Fallout 3 instead its extremely similar yet objectively deeper sequel.
Industry? Aren't these just some modders doing this in their spare time? I wasn't trying to imply that New Vegas was perfect either or that I hate Fallout 3 entirely. It's just if you had to pick between it and its mechanical sister, why the hell wouldn't you go with the better one? I guess I can't argue with the point that somebody would do it eventually though.
Some people prefer Fallout 3 to NV and FO4. But they prefer the gameplay of FO4. So they want to play FO3 with the "improved" gameplay of FO4. Not to mention that many people can't run FO3 on Windows 10 (although there are instructions how to do it all over). And FO4 engine doesn't have the 32bit limitation. Etc.
Also there is already a project to remake FNV on FO4 .
I also don't see the point in remaking older games on new engines, specially if the old games can still be played today. But I can understand why some people might want to do it.
I take back most of my criticism over the choice of remaking Fallout 3.
I get that a casual player who doesn't understand anything about game design could come to that conclusion based on nostalgia or some arbitrary quirk of Fallout 3, but I guess I just expected more from people who supposedly know enough to be able to port games to other engines.
If you want to make a Fallout game, you have to do it within the bounds Bethesda has allowed; mods for FO3/ or now FO4. Anything else, and it's infringing beyond what they have allowed. It's actually very generous of them, considering that modding used to be considered (and for some it still is)... actionable tampering.
It's also a (marginal) risk that they will be outclassed by a user mod; but they can't really offer to allow modding for any—except those that are better than their own—, so we have the opportunity.
Another thing to consider: They own the IP, so any work one does while bearing this in mind, is semi protected, and alleviates certain problems. I can mod an armor in a design style that they own, for use in a game-mod & IP that they own—and allow mods for; where as I could not release it myself, or for in a game or mod that they do not own; and nobody else can either.
I wouldn't release an original design of my own that had that much work in it—a fully function new armor design for FO3... because it could get pirated, and/or used in other (non-Fallout) projects against my wishes; and I'd have to handle it. But Bethesda maintains a legal army to defend their own properties, and my FO3 mesh likely qualifies—same as if their own were used. The offenders just might get a cease & desist from Bethesda—and that's something they might actually listen to.
Sorry, I didn't mean a Fallout title Gizmo, I was talking about any game in general. Even if it had to be exactly like Fallout, that really isn't a problem. Contrary to popular belief, Bethesda doesn't own the concept of attribute-based role playing games nor do they have the authority to stop people from writing fiction featuring underground bunkers, radiation, or mechanical suits of armor. Fallout is just a name.
Also if that's your set of armor in the video, that's totally cool and not at all what I was talking about.
Thank you . I made it before New Vegas released with their own version of the armor. Mine has the radiation symbol, instead of a fan on the back as per Fallout 2.
I guess I'll throw my two cents in for response of the page
I guess why I decided to make a massive mod tied to fallout rather than making a brand new game was simpley assets. You can't get these assests like you can use form the GECK and skyrim. The Geck is also kinda simple to use I mean its not the best but is sorta straight forward there also many scripts and things that you cna modify from the geck rather than make from scartch. Also there inbuilt havoc witch you don;t get in some game engines.
It's gota a small learning curve than say compered to learning Unity for example.
I guess just pure love as well. Nv and FO3 where my favorite games really and the optuinty to literally make antoher game like that is mouth watering. You have all the KIT to make a game like that. You just need the time effort and you could literally make your own fallout game. I;m not too sure on converting fo3 to fo4 because the assets just aren't there and maybe it too script heavy. Although having ago at your own thing now that cool. Even if you make some half as small and shitter that NV you still go something kinda good. Can make sorta your own game just set in the fallout world. I mean its going to be different but thats okay.
Disappointment for me also, Fo4 was bad and I honestly think I could do better, what better way to back that up than having ago yourself.
Also moding itself is extremely fun sometimes
So yeah that my view
I'll second that!
I may have spent more time in the GECK and testing results in FO3, than in playing the game.
(I have never encountered the Enclave during the course of play, in FO3.)
(Never encountered Ceasar or House in FO:New Vegas)
My play time for NV on steam is 15 hours that purely all testing my mod as I don't play FNV via steam haha
I was wondering when you were going to speak up. First let me say I don't hate mods and I'm not against the modding community. I think mods are useful when they fix oversights and gameplay features. Gizmo adding Fallout 2's Enclave power armor into Fallout 3 is a great example because Bethesda clearly missed that.
Where I think mods fall into the excessive category is when I see people developing massive, story driven expansions for games they didn't write that include a ton of otherwise creative ideas. Let me be clear, I dislike these for the same reason I dislike when somebody who isn't JK Rowling writes an entire novel about Harry Potter. Hell, I'd even say it's for the same reason I'm against sequels in general.
I don't like creativity going to waste, or at least not living up to its full potential. Every time I see something about Fallout Atlanta, you know what I think? "If he was going to put that much time into something, why didn't that guy just make his own game about a post-apocalyptic Atlanta?" I'm not trying to single you out either, that goes for every similar mod for every game. I get that the GECK is easier to use, but just because a path is easier to take doesn't necessarily mean it's the best or most rewarding.
Don't let me stop you from having fun, though. I'm just some asshole on an online forum letting you know where I stand. Keep doing what makes you happy and keep being creative.
Hahah yeah I'm here now
Well i mean if someone was making a story about harry potter then yeah I would agree that would kinda be a waste. Although it not so much like that more like writing a story set in a harry potter universe. Your using the idea and the lore. But introducing new ideas and characters. But I do see the comparison. However harry potter had a start to finish it had a story. It made sense. Where we where treated to fallout 4. I would say most series need to made by the same auther but I'm not so sure that it need to be the same people developeing the games. I mean know company has made more than one fallout game, other than fo3 and fo4. Every other fallout game has used the lore and adapted so it can be done. It sad that the community where never get a proper RPG and it will just be a casual shooter. I think the mod as more a demo too, why could't this become a full game if they let me make it. Not saying they ever will. But i guess its different than a faction or whatever
But this is my chance to create fallout set in Atlanta that I have in my head. If i wanted to write or make another game I could heck someday maybe I will. This is good practice though. I guess if I wanted a job in the game industry I could put it forward as it literally game at this point.
Don't be offend but I won't stop haha